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Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 15th 16, 07:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:28:44 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:
So it's moster an engineering breakthrough. But why do so many

people
call these gravitational waves "sound"?


Because it so happens that they are in the audible frequency range

so
you can actually listen to them - a bit like pulsars in that

respect.

We cannot listen to any oscillations in the audible range. For
instance we cannot directly hear electromagnetic waves with
frequencies between 20 Hz and 20 kHz, we need electronic equipment to
convert them to sound waves to hear them.



If our ears were sensitive enough then gravitational waves would be
perceived as sound.


I don't think so, since our ears do not use light to detect
vibrations, as LIGO does. Light must be used for that, or else the
gravitational waves will be undetectable. Anyway, if our body had
some sensory organ sensitive to gravitational waves we don't know how
we would perceive those waves. We might perceive gravitational waves
as sound, or as heat, or as light of some new color, or as some
different perception we've unfamiliar with and therefore cannot
describe. It att depends on how that organ sensitive to gravitational
waves is converted to our brain...
  #22  
Old February 15th 16, 11:00 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:11:53 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

We cannot listen to any oscillations in the audible range. For
instance we cannot directly hear electromagnetic waves with
frequencies between 20 Hz and 20 kHz, we need electronic equipment to
convert them to sound waves to hear them.


We need some kind of transduction, but not necessarily electronic.
People apparently hear electrophonic noise from meteors and auroras
when the VLF electromagnetic radiation is converted directly to air
vibrations by nearby metal garage doors, barbeque grills, jewelry,
eyeglass frames, and perhaps medical implants.

If our ears were sensitive enough then gravitational waves would be
perceived as sound.


I don't think so, since our ears do not use light to detect
vibrations, as LIGO does. Light must be used for that, or else the
gravitational waves will be undetectable.


You don't need light to detect gravitational waves. The primary
detection occurs because of a dimensional change in a structure. Light
just happens to be the best way we have of measuring small dimensional
changes. But our ears directly measure that same thing. A
gravitational wave is theoretically detectable by a structure like our
ear, responding to a mechanical deformation. (In practice, it would
certainly be far below the noise level, but the concept is sound.)
  #23  
Old February 16th 16, 11:31 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On 15/02/2016 18:11, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:28:44 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:
So it's moster an engineering breakthrough. But why do so many

people
call these gravitational waves "sound"?


Because it so happens that they are in the audible frequency range

so
you can actually listen to them - a bit like pulsars in that

respect.

We cannot listen to any oscillations in the audible range. For instance
we cannot directly hear electromagnetic waves with frequencies between
20 Hz and 20 kHz, we need electronic equipment to convert them to sound
waves to hear them.


True enough.

If our ears were sensitive enough then gravitational waves would be
perceived as sound.


I don't think so, since our ears do not use light to detect vibrations,


It isn't necessary to use light - only to be able to detect very tiny
strains which is pretty much what our ear does.

Someone has done the ball park numbers in the thread in s.a.r

as LIGO does. Light must be used for that, or else the gravitational
waves will be undetectable. Anyway, if our body had some sensory organ
sensitive to gravitational waves we don't know how we would perceive
those waves. We might perceive gravitational waves as sound, or as heat,
or as light of some new color, or as some different perception we've
unfamiliar with and therefore cannot describe. It att depends on how
that organ sensitive to gravitational waves is converted to our brain...


We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough. But the ear would
potentially respond to strain if a sufficiently strong event occurred.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #24  
Old February 16th 16, 01:18 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On Tuesday, 16 February 2016 11:33:00 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:

We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough. But the ear would
potentially respond to strain if a sufficiently strong event occurred.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown


Presumably piezo-quartz strain detection is far too insensitive to be of value for gravitational waves?

  #25  
Old February 16th 16, 01:19 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 10:33:00 AM UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough. But the ear would
potentially respond to strain if a sufficiently strong event occurred.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown


The recent voodoo fest is merely exacerbating the rubbish inherited from the late 17th century.

The Earth's rotation drive the fluid dynamics beneath the fractured surface crust and up to now empiricists have been unable to grasp that all rotational celestial bodies with fluid compositions display an uneven rotational gradient between equator and poles.

Instead of interpreting signals from the interior fluid as differential rotation across latitudes they dumped in differential rotation between cores,two entirely different things.

At this juncture in history researchers have a choice to obliterate a communal type of autism, not centered around 'Einstein was right', but rather the mess inherited from the late 17th century.Brown and his colleagues are merely living in their heads hence the issue of their minds within the autistic spectrum where experiences are denied for playthings of the imagination.



  #26  
Old February 16th 16, 04:06 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On 16/02/2016 12:18, Chris.B wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 February 2016 11:33:00 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:

We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough. But the ear would
potentially respond to strain if a sufficiently strong event occurred.


Presumably piezo-quartz strain detection is far too insensitive to be of value for gravitational waves?

Yes although there was a recent paper about a possible squid (quantum
intereference resonance device) that might lead to a tabletop detector.
A variant of the Weber bar but with superconducting detection.

I can't find anything immediately not behind a paywall but I'm sure
there was something in Physics News in the last few weeks...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #27  
Old February 16th 16, 05:29 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

Martin Brown:
We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough...


Just what the world needs: 7 billion people going all wobbly every time
a cataclysmic event occurs within a few billion LY.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #28  
Old February 16th 16, 05:39 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Sam Wormley[_2_]
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On 2/16/16 10:29 AM, Davoud wrote:
Martin Brown:
We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough...


Just what the world needs: 7 billion people going all wobbly every time
a cataclysmic event occurs within a few billion LY.



Let us hope that the wobble source is far enough aware as to not
disrupt the bonds in our molecules. There may have been an associated
gamma ray burst with the detected black hole merger -- most likely
from nearby gas an debris.





--

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

  #29  
Old February 16th 16, 06:05 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:29:26 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Martin Brown:
We would probably experience it as a slight wobble in local gravity much
like an earthquake if it were strong enough...


Just what the world needs: 7 billion people going all wobbly every time
a cataclysmic event occurs within a few billion LY.


Well, that's what's really happening. Luckily, the magnitude of the
wobble is really, really, really, really tiny.
  #30  
Old February 16th 16, 06:58 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Fwd: Viewpoint: The First Sounds of Merging Black Holes

On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 4:40:01 PM UTC, Sam Wormley wrote:




Let us hope that the wobble source is far enough aware as to not
disrupt the bonds in our molecules. There may have been an associated
gamma ray burst with the detected black hole merger -- most likely
from nearby gas an debris.



No matter how much bluffing goes on presently, the Equation of Time and the unethical expression of it by Newton as absolute/relative time stops this whole empirical roadshow dead.

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions...The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Principia

The only bonds you all should consider is the one which ties the appearance of the Sun at noon with the 24 hour cycle and that includes the continuous progression of rotations involving February 29th. The Equation of Time cannot work on fractional days and rotations hence the urgent need to modify Huygen's approach -

" Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passeth the 12. Signes,or makes an entire revolution in the Ecliptick in 365 days, 5 hours 49 min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon,are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in Astronomy" Huygens

http://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

You clowns have no idea whatsoever where Newton was getting his idea of the Sun or the Earth passing through the ecliptic and its extension into Kepler's perspective who never used it -

"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five
primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the
earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean
distances from the sun.

This proportion, first observed by Kepler, is now received by all
astronomers; for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions
of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth,
or the earth about the sun." Newton

Pity I can't find anyone who isn't an overgrown schoolboy who can deal with the complex issues arising from the train wreck where timekeeping and planetary dynamics come into a close approximation.



 




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