The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet

On Nov 27, 10:36*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 27, 3:53 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 26, 9:55 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 23, 5:15 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
Apparently folks here in Google Groups or Usenet/newsgroups do not
really give a tinkers damn about saving Earth, or much less sharing
squat unless there's a continuous flow of human blood and thereby a
culling of humanity that isn't within the top 0.1% of being rich and
powerful.

In other words, for thousands of years, nothing has really changed for
the better, greater good or fairness of getting along with one
another.

Just think of it as evolution in action.

So, just what have YOU 'shared' (other than your paranoid delusions, I
mean)? Or are you upset because the sharing isn't flowing in your
direction?

About a thousand percent more than you ever have. (make that 10,000%)

But then you and others of your kind have set the bar for personal
accomplishment so low, in that a 10,000% improvement is nothing all
that special. Of course you are always right about everything, so
there's obviously no way of anyone topping that one.

Guthball, your envy is pitiable.

In other words, you wouldn't change, alter or revise anything for the
betterment of Earth or the greater good of humanity. (unless of course
it improved your quality of life)

In other words, reality doesn't intrude into Guthworld.

In many ways you are the redneck mainstream status quo, so at least
that's something to be proud of.

In many ways you are nutty as a fruitcake.

That got you one gold star again. *Can't your insults even be
original?

Perhaps if you did something different. *But you won't. *You'll just
continue being a Guthball.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

When's the last time you did something/anything the least bit positive/
constructive on behalf of our global environment, other than
fertilizing the downwind neighbor's lawn with your poop?

~ BG

On Nov 29, 2:38*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:

When's the last time you did something/anything the least bit positive/
constructive on behalf of our global environment, other than
fertilizing the downwind neighbor's lawn with your poop?

You should ask yourself these questions, Guthball. *So far as I can
tell, you're ALL fertilizer.

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.

Once again, your inability to add anything positive, constructive or
even interesting as to the topic at hand is what a hired agent like
yourself is all about.

As I said before, Hitler would have made you is second in command. Of
course any agent for hire can also be a double agent for hire, and
that's pretty much what Fred J. McCall is all about.

"You are What you do When it counts", so what exactly does Fred do
other than topic/author stalk and bash for all it's worth?

What is your religion?
What is your politics?
What is your game?

~ BG

On Nov 29, 8:37*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 29, 2:38 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:

When's the last time you did something/anything the least bit positive/
constructive on behalf of our global environment, other than
fertilizing the downwind neighbor's lawn with your poop?

You should ask yourself these questions, Guthball. So far as I can
tell, you're ALL fertilizer.

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.

Once again, your inability to add anything positive, constructive or
even interesting as to the topic at hand is what a hired agent like
yourself is all about.

Poor Guthball. *His delusions seem SO real to him...


As I said before, Hitler would have made you is second in command. *Of
course any agent for hire can also be a double agent for hire, and
that's pretty much what Fred J. McCall is all about.

Would you like me to send some security folks around to talk to you
about that, Guthball?
Sure thing, why the hell not?

Are you saying that you wouldn't have been smart enough for Hitler?


"You are *What you do *When it counts", *so what exactly does Fred do
other than topic/author stalk and bash for all it's worth?

Why, I'm an engineer at an aerospace company, Guthball. *I thought
everyone knew that.
And it seems they obviously approve of your public actions. Semites
(aka pretend-Atheists) never do police their own kind, so obviously
you'd fit right in.


Now, on to the irrelevancies.


What is your religion?

Agnostic



What is your politics?

Variable. *In general, socially liberal and fiscally conservative.



What is your game?

Poking Guthballs to watch them gibber.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn

Your public funded job as a rogue agent for hire is noted, as is you
lack of concern for anyone other than yourself.

Unlike here on Earth were humans like yourself can literally dump as
often and anywhere they like, whereas perhaps one such human dump
would over-saturate the Mars environment as is.

What needs to get done is the melting of those polar ice caps, even if
they are mostly dry-ice. Good chance that under all of that solid or
fluffy CO2 dry-ice is a layer of actual water-ice that would quickly
sublime and be blown away by the solar wind within a few years at
best. Otherwise digging into the interior of Mars could be rather
interesting, though way spendy.

A substantial tunnel on Earth (such as the New Jersey-New York Mass
Transit/ARC Tunnel) can run upwards of $2.5M/meter, and even a basic
smaller tunnel that's not outfitted with anything runs at least
$100,000/meter. Therefore on Mars that remote tunneling project might
conceivably run us only $100 million per meter, and that's only if
we're lucky and absolutely nothing goes terribly wrong, not to mention
the decade plus required just for getting that mostly robotic tunnel
digger there in the first place. More likely this tunneling into Mars
would represent an all-inclusive investment of a billion dollars per
meter, but since it's all public loot is why this and our going after
bogus Muslim WMD plus whatever nation building for those that do not
desire or capable of appreciating such, really doesn't matter anyway,
just like our mutually perpetrated cold-war that lasted decades and
having cost the world trillions per decade isn’t supposed to matter.

Can you suggest something better and/or more spendy to blow our hard
earned public loot on?

~ BG

On Nov 30, 12:54*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 29, 8:37 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 29, 2:38 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:

When's the last time you did something/anything the least bit positive/
constructive on behalf of our global environment, other than
fertilizing the downwind neighbor's lawn with your poop?

You should ask yourself these questions, Guthball. So far as I can
tell, you're ALL fertilizer.

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.

Once again, your inability to add anything positive, constructive or
even interesting as to the topic at hand is what a hired agent like
yourself is all about.

Poor Guthball. His delusions seem SO real to him...

As I said before, Hitler would have made you is second in command. Of
course any agent for hire can also be a double agent for hire, and
that's pretty much what Fred J. McCall is all about.

Would you like me to send some security folks around to talk to you
about that, Guthball?

Sure thing, why the hell not?

Are you saying that you wouldn't have been smart enough for Hitler?

No, I'm saying you're a clueless ****wit. *You get it now?



"You are What you do When it counts", so what exactly does Fred do
other than topic/author stalk and bash for all it's worth?

Why, I'm an engineer at an aerospace company, Guthball. I thought
everyone knew that.

And it seems they obviously approve of your public actions. *

Try again. *They have nothing to do with my "public actions". *I work
for them; I'm not a chattel slave.



Semites (aka pretend-Atheists)...

The Guthball is back to speaking his own private language again...



... never do police their own kind, so obviously
you'd fit right in.

Is that statement supposed to make sense on ANY planet?





Now, on to the irrelevancies.

What is your religion?

Agnostic

What is your politics?

Variable. In general, socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

What is your game?

Poking Guthballs to watch them gibber.

Your public funded job as a rogue agent for hire is noted, as is you
lack of concern for anyone other than yourself.

Just take the nice pills and run along to bed, Guthball.

Guthballery excised

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

You've lost your edge, and get only one gold star.

~ BG

Apparently only the Jews (aka ZNRs and GOPs) in this newsgroup don't
like anything you or I have to say. They even bother to topic/author
stalk as well as strip-away our gold stars, and otherwise they're
having to pretend they are Atheists and Democrats.

~ BG


On Nov 7, 12:22*pm, William Mook wrote:
The Earth As a Planet.

Science has shown that it is highly efficient at doing things when
enough people put enough resources behind the right sorts of
programs. *For example, fission was discovered in 1938 and this
resulted in the Manhattan Project in 1942 and the first atomic bombs
in 1946. *Humanity built a network of nuclear weapons capable of
ending modern civilization in an afternoon should we choose to do
that.

Can we move as quickly to create what Buckminster Fuller called
'livingry' (as opposed to weaponry) to make our world a paradise?

The first step toward this goal, should we choose it as something at
least as worthwhile as weaponry and armies of death and destruction,
we need to ask some simple questions to see where we stand, if our
planet has enough resources to meet the needs of 8 billion people
living as they please.

Do we have enough resources on Earth to create a paradise on Earth in
a reasonable time frame?

To answer this question we need to have an idea of what's needed, and
an idea of what's available. *What's needed is easily identified by
taking the laundry list of things purchased by the wealthiest people,
and what goes into making those things, and adding up the total for 8
billion people consuming products the same way the 10 million
millionaires live today.

When one does this the answer is;

We may have.

People need primarily;

*(1) energy
*(2) water
*(3) food
*(4) wood
*(5) metals

The major wood reserves of the planet re found in Taiga - the
coniferous forest encircling the North Pole;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Di...tion_Taiga.png

here is Taiga relative to the other biome's on the planet

http://chalk.richmond.edu/education/...iomes/taigamap...

Energy, is found in the deserts, which is also a natural locale for
remotely operated solar powered industry - operated in ways that keep
industry isolated from the biomes;

http://www.cheshire-innovation.com/World%20Deserts.gif

With abundant low cost energy we have the means to turn seawater into
fresh water through desalination along with salts and we also have the
means to turn fresh water sunlight and certain of the salts obtained
from desalination into food using enclosed agriculture in the
desert.

The oceans appear to have abundant metal in deep ocean rifts

http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servle...d=OTC-4780-MS&....

We have technologies developed over the cold war to access these
reserves and process them into useful forms.

ENERGY

The world today uses 12 trillion watts of power primarily through the
combustion of 11 billion tons of fossil fuels that produce 40 billion
tons of CO2.

Collecting sunlight and making hydrogen from deionized water and using
hydrogen in place of fossil fuels requires 17 trillion watts of
collectors - base load - which means 60 trillion watts peak requiring
100,000 sq km of solar panels be placed within the 11 million sq km of
deserts. *Less than 1%

Looking at the consumption of energy of the world's wealthiest people
- the 10 million millionaires - and assuming we have 8 billion people
consuming at millionaire rates - we will need 185 trillion watts of
collectors located in the deserts baseload - 487 trillion watts peak
requiring 810,530 sq km of solar panels. *Less than 8% of the total.

FOOD

By Water
85.7 kg/m3 per 1 m3 of fresh water.

By Area (average)
17.1 kg/m2/yr

The meat-based diet differs from the vegetarian diet in that 124 kg of
meat and 20.3 kg of fish are consumed per year in addition to 995 kg
of plant material. *For every 1 kg of high-quality animal protein
produced, livestock are fed about 6 kg of plant protein. So a high
quality meat diet consumes 1,739 kg of plant protien.

In the conversion of plant protein to animal protein, there are 2
principal inputs or costs: 1) the direct costs of production of the
harvest animal, including its feed; and 2) the indirect costs for
maintaining the breeding herds.

Energy is expended in livestock production systems. For example,
broiler chicken production is the most efficient, with an input of 4
kcal of fuel energy for each 1 kcal of broiler protein produced. The
broiler system is primarily dependent on grain. Turkey, also a grain-
fed system, is next in efficiency, with a ratio of 10:1. Milk
production, based on a mixture of two-thirds grain and one-third
forage, is relatively efficient, with a ratio of 14:1. Both pork and
egg production also depend on grain. Pork production has a ratio of
14:1, whereas egg production has a 39:1 ratio.

This extra energy is included in the larger energy inputs described
above.

To produce the required 1,795 kg of food each year requires 20.3 m3 of
fresh water made from salt water grown on 101.7 m2 per person. *A
total of 813,567 sq km of desert lands fed with 162.4 billion m3 of
fresh water and other inputs provide this.

http://www.slideshare.net/ifad/ifad-...full/78/3/660S

WOOD

The world today uses about 0.3 m3 of wood products per person per year
worldwide, but the wealthiest of us use 20x this amount - 6.0 m3 of
wood products per person per year. *8 billion people consuming at this
higher rate totals 48 billion m3/yr or *38 billion kg/year - 38
million tons.

Taiga occupies 25 million square kilometers of area and each of those
square kilometers has a bioenergy conversion factor of 0.83 Joules/m2/
year which translates to 46,000 kg per square kilometer per year.
This means that 826,000 sq km of these forests properly managed could
provide for everyone's need for wood products to build fine homes,
fine furnishings, and provide all paper and other wood products.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_libra...20r7752n3w756&...

HARVESTING TAIGA

To access these products in an environmentally sustainable way
requires new technology. *One approach would be hydrogen filled and
fueled neutral buoyancy aircraft that had the ability to retrieve and
process in the air via teleoperation from the air individual trees
identified by multi-spectral scanning from orbit.

HARVESTING THE OCEANS

We need to survey the ocean deeps - or more likely *make available
data already gathered by the world's navies to appropriate geological
analysis - to determine the size of the reserves available to us.
Large numbers of remotely operated miniature nuclear submarines -
developed for sub-surface intelligence operations - adapted to mine
and transport to the surface - and partially process ores - to deliver
semi-refined ores to the ocean's surface - allows us to produce enough
metal ores to sustain 8 billion people at very high living standards
aboard floating platforms with minimal environmental impact again
using small nuclear reactors aboard these platforms .

Such technology already exists

http://yachtpals.com/bonhomme-richar...ing/12520/?a=f

This approach also makes use of our existing stockpile of nuclear
fuels in a very beneficial way as well as our accumulated know-how in
the seas.

TRANSPORT REQUIREMENTS

Each person per yer requires;

* *2.0 metric tons food products (and packaging)
* *6.0 metric tons wood products
* *5.0 metric tons hydrogen fuel
* *2.0 metric tons metal ores

to maintain the lifestyle of a modern millionaire today.

With adequate machinery it will take only 1.5 billion people working
60 hours per week to maintain this living standard for 8 billion
people. *This is nearly 50% of the world's 3.2 billion employed
today. *Yet nearly 1 billion are subsistence farmers whose jobs will
become surperflouous when modern agriculture is applied on a large
scale to the desert. *Another 600 million will become unemployed in
traditional extraction industries as this system grows. * So, there
are 1.5 billion people with skills and capabilities that can be used
far more efficiently with the right investments. *It will take this
level of effort for five years to build all the infrastructure
needed. *It will take an additional five years to grow the system from
a 1,500 person seed system to full scale operation. * It will take
five years to design and build the seed system. *So, planning and
logistics can take this into account as things are switched over to
the vastly more efficient system. *There are about 40,000 extraction
companies affected, and about half a billion subsistence farms
affected. * The buy-in need not be arduous. *A 1,500 person
'productive cell' could partner with 1,500 people employed at a
company, or companies, to convert from lower productivity to higher
productivity.

Change the world in 15 years;

* * *+5 - design and build the seed system
* * *+5 - grow the seed system to full scale
* * *+5 - operate the full scale system to build value

With 19.86 people born per 1,000 people 158.8 million are born each
year. * So, to sustain the working population pay and benefits allow
workers to accumulate retirement in 35 years only 10.5% of the world's
people need to be recruited into the primary productive system
described here.

8 billion people consuming at a $125,000 per person per year rate
totals $1 quadrillion per year. *This is 18x what the world consumes
today. *The value of the capital base that makes this possible could
reasonably be said to be worth 17x of the world's entire capital base
today. * The value of this capital base rises with each passing year
as everyone accumulates more.

This is a measure of the value of investing capital to create 8
billion millionaires by employing the unemployed or under-employed
today more efficiently. *The sustainable working population is only
10% of the world's youth, which means that 90% of the world's youth
are available to exercise additional capital for other purposes
organized by those who put in the original capital. *Since all nations
would have to agree to such wide ranging use of resources and people,
we might at first blush say 50% of the benefit goes to those
governments and 50% of the benefit goes to those investors who make
the change possible. * In this case all the world's governments would
split something like $450 trillion (the USA federal government
collected $2.2 trillion and spent $3.5 trillion in 2010) per year, and
all the world's wealthy would collect *$450 trillion per year in
products and efforts called for by the private markets they create.
Another $100 trillion is reinvested in wages and capital to maintain
the primary system going.

The creation of a highly productive system to efficiently use the
world's limited resources to meet everyone's basic needs (at the
millionaire level today) need not be anything more difficult to
understand the organization of than say the construction of toll roads
today to meet the needs of the public. *The roads are constructed
according to public need and approval, and those who invest in the
roads collect tolls as the road is used. *Same here.

Something like this happened in the past. *In 1908 Henry Ford opened
his Model T assembly plant and revolutionized the world by
simultaneously producing a car for less than $1,000 - while paying his
workers $5 per day - 5x the going rate for workers! * He called the $4
premium - efficiency premium - for working more efficiently with his
mass production method. *His workers were enriched, and so was Ford
and his investors even while automobiles were made a far less expense
than ever before!

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/ford.htm

There is no reason we cannot view the major assets of our planet and
organize to use them the same way - without disrupting markets or
governments - merely by taking a sane rational approach to the way
things are done using the best available technology and information we
have today.

On Dec 2, 6:31*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:

Apparently only the Jews (aka ZNRs and GOPs) in this newsgroup don't
like anything you or I have to say. *They even bother to topic/author
stalk as well as strip-away our gold stars, and otherwise they're
having to pretend they are Atheists and Democrats.

And there you have a good look into the mind of your only supporter
here, Mookie...

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

Good to know that you'd always support whatever deranged warlord is in
charge, and then some.

~ BG

On Dec 2, 7:21*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:31 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:

Apparently only the Jews (aka ZNRs and GOPs) in this newsgroup don't
like anything you or I have to say. They even bother to topic/author
stalk as well as strip-away our gold stars, and otherwise they're
having to pretend they are Atheists and Democrats.

And there you have a good look into the mind of your only supporter
here, Mookie...

Good to know that you'd always support whatever deranged warlord is in
charge, and then some.

Brad is apparently hearing voices again...

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

?

In article ,
says...

Brad Guth wrote:

On Dec 2, 7:21*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
Good to know that you'd always support whatever deranged warlord
is in
charge, and then some.

Brad is apparently hearing voices again...


?


WHOOOOOSH!!!!!!

snicker

LOLZ

Jeff
--
42

On Dec 3, 5:35*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...





Brad Guth wrote:

On Dec 2, 7:21 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
Good to know that you'd always support whatever deranged warlord
is in
charge, and then some.

Brad is apparently hearing voices again...

?

WHOOOOOSH!!!!!!

snicker

LOLZ

Jeff
--
42

So you don't think anything is wrong with Earth or it's biodiversity?
(and the Semitic likes of Fred J. McCall is your best friend?)

~ BG

On Dec 3, 1:53*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 3, 5:35 am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

Brad Guth wrote:

On Dec 2, 7:21 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
Good to know that you'd always support whatever deranged warlord is in
charge, and then some.

Brad is apparently hearing voices again...

?

WHOOOOOSH!!!!!!

snicker

LOLZ

So you don't think anything is wrong with Earth or it's biodiversity?
(and the Semitic likes of Fred J. McCall is your best friend?)

No, Guthball, he just thinks you're bat**** crazy and thick as a plank
into the bargain. *The voices in your head aren't real!

I find it interesting that Brad's worst insult is to call someone
"Semitic". *I suspect he must be a love child of Adolf Hitler fathered
on Hermann Goering...

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

"The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet",
and to do that means getting rid of those that screwed it up to begin
with, and/or making them pay back at least double.

How about yourself, Fred; how much do you owe?

~ BG