|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Fred J. McCall wrote:
Michael Smith wrote: But going to mars actually requires somebody physically small and able to live on smaller quantities of oxygen, food, etc. More women would satisfy this requirement than men, so using Grigoryev's own argument it should be women going to Mars. Think 'calcium loss'. I think this affects women much more severely than men. So now we're sending post-menopausal women to Mars? Seriously, women don't have a higher risk of osteoporosis until after menopause. Other risk factors include being Asian or Caucasian, taking certain drugs, smoking, alcoholism, bone structure and body weight, lack of weight-bearing exercise and heredity. rl |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"Rhonda Lea Kirk" wrote:
:Fred J. McCall wrote: : Michael Smith wrote: : : But going to mars actually requires somebody : physically small and able to live on smaller : quantities of oxygen, food, etc. : : More women would satisfy this requirement than men, : so using Grigoryev's own argument it should be : women going to Mars. : : Think 'calcium loss'. I think this affects women : much more severely than men. : :So now we're sending post-menopausal women to Mars? : :Seriously, women don't have a higher risk of steoporosis until after menopause. That was not my understanding of what the space medicine studies indicated. Women under zero-g lose calcium more quickly than men do, as I recall it. Calcium loss is pretty much THE big problem we're aware of with prolonged exposure to zero-g. -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
"Fred J. McCall" wrote:
That was not my understanding of what the space medicine studies indicated. Women under zero-g lose calcium more quickly than men do, as I recall it. Calcium loss is pretty much THE big problem we're aware of with prolonged exposure to zero-g. For a trip the duration of the Mars expedition, does it make a difference ? Woudldn't they need to find way to deal with calcium loss even for men ? And if they do find a way to stabilize calcium level on men, wouldn't that also work for women with just different dosage of whatever they do ? And what about age ? Would younger crews have lesser problems with calcium and in fact less problems with exercising sufficiently to maintain good shape ? I find it interesting that in that "failed" russian study, they enclosed young adults whereas people of such age rarely get to go up to space. Younger adults would make the sexual tension issue more prevalent (this isn't taboo anymore, right ?), but their higher energy levels and better bodies might make the trip far more surviveable. Raising occupancy of the station should be made a very high priority in order to allow crews of varying ages to work there. This would not only allow proper experiemnts on age versus body depletion in 0g, but also personal relationships between younger and older crewmembers, issues of authority and of course the sexual issues and how to best deal with them. None of this has been tested yet with crews on Mir and Alpha having been too small. As far as the argument of sending only "professionals", this is ludicrous. You can't be "professional" 7/24 for over a year without any break. Also remember that interactive communications with a spouse will not be possible once far enough from earth, and that is something which has not really been tested much so far. And it isn't just the person is space one much consider, but also the spouse and possibly kids who won't see their parent for such a long time. And all this is contingent on a decision on how many cremembersw are to be sent to Mars and back. It defines the size of the ship, the type of crew and crew training necessary, and the crew selection (sex, marital status, education etc). It also requires setting up a training schedule to find out how soon prior to the trip you need to start the mission specific training, and how much of it can be done during the trip. And that also means skills based training. Another issue is how much personal space is required for a mission of that duration, and whether the amount of personal space varies with age and/or sex. Would you need duplicate lounges/gyms in case the crew splits into two groups that don't get together well during off-duty times ? This isn't Star Trek. You can't ignore toilets and sexual issues, and you can't garantee that all crew members will get along wonderfully and constantly sport smiles and never complain about workload or food for 1.5 years in closed quarters. There are issues and they need to be dealt with. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Am Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:04:45 GMT schrieb "Fred J. McCall":
: Think 'calcium loss'. I think this affects women : much more severely than men. :[...] That was not my understanding of what the space medicine studies indicated. Women under zero-g lose calcium more quickly than men do, as I recall it. Calcium loss is pretty much THE big problem we're aware of with prolonged exposure to zero-g. The answer, WHY women lose more body calcium in zero-G is the basic solution to find a way to overcome that problem. We should find it - if it isn't already obvious - and use it for our advantage. Even males would surely profit (If I were on a multi-year space trip, I would like "close misses":-) ... cu, ZiLi aka HKZL (Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker) -- "Abusus non tollit usum" - Latin: Abuse is no argument against proper use. mailto: http://zili.de |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Rhonda Lea Kirk" wrote: Fred J. McCall wrote: Think 'calcium loss'. I think this affects women much more severely than men. So now we're sending post-menopausal women to Mars? Seriously, women don't have a higher risk of osteoporosis until after menopause. That was not my understanding of what the space medicine studies indicated. Women under zero-g lose calcium more quickly than men do, as I recall it. Where would I find those studies (or even a reference to women experiencing greater bone loss)? Because I'm not finding them. Calcium loss is pretty much THE big problem we're aware of with prolonged exposure to zero-g. From what I've read, it's as big a roadblock for men as it is for women. rl |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
John Doe wrote:
:"Fred J. McCall" wrote: : That was not my understanding of what the space medicine studies : indicated. Women under zero-g lose calcium more quickly than men do, : as I recall it. Calcium loss is pretty much THE big problem we're : aware of with prolonged exposure to zero-g. : :For a trip the duration of the Mars expedition, does it make a :difference ? I suspect the best answer anyone has right now is 'maybe'. :Woudldn't they need to find way to deal with calcium loss :even for men ? Yes. :And if they do find a way to stabilize calcium level on :men, wouldn't that also work for women with just different dosage of :whatever they do ? That doesn't necessarily follow. Women are not men, a fact for which I am perpetually grateful. :And what about age ? Would younger crews have lesser problems with :calcium and in fact less problems with exercising sufficiently to :maintain good shape ? I doubt anyone has a definitive answer here, either, so once again the answer is 'maybe'. -- "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute." -- Charles Pinckney |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Rand Simberg wrote: I can go that long without forcing my unwanted tongue on a woman. I'm going to resist the temptation. I'm going to resist the temptation. I'm going to resist the temptation. (497 more times) :-P Pat |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:35:10 -0500, in a place far, far away, John Doe
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: As far as the argument of sending only "professionals", this is ludicrous. You can't be "professional" 7/24 for over a year without any break. I can go that long without forcing my unwanted tongue on a woman. I can also go that long without being a classic male chauvinist pig. I've in fact managed both those things for decades. This is a cultural problem, not a hormonal one. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Rand Simberg wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote: Rand Simberg wrote: I can go that long without forcing my unwanted tongue on a woman. I'm going to resist the temptation. I'm going to resist the temptation. I'm going to resist the temptation. (497 more times) :-P I should add that one of the reasons I can manage it is that they rarely find it unwanted... Andre No proof offered? Claim fails. /Andre (Sorry, Rand, I just couldn't help myself.) |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Fred J. McCall wrote: :And what about age ? Would younger crews have lesser problems with :calcium and in fact less problems with exercising sufficiently to :maintain good shape ? I doubt anyone has a definitive answer here, either, so once again the answer is 'maybe'. Of course the solution to all this is simple...we need a Mars ship with a one G artificial gravity field, but that is going to be a pretty big ship. Still, that might prove to be the only real solution to the problem in the long run; since the ship will probably use a reactor to generate its power anyway, a long cable or framework (say 1000 feet) with the ship's crew quarters and lander at one end and the reactor at the other would solve the radiation problem while allowing a radius of rotation that would be big enough not to cause nausea as the crew moved around. Once Mars was reached it would be de-spun for the deployment of the lander (the crew could handle the zero G for a a one or two month sojourn of the lander's crew on the surface, or it could be re-spun up after the lander is released and stopped again for the surface crew's return*) and then it could be re-spun up for the return voyage. Entering and leaving Mars orbit? Either nuclear or conventional motors mounted at the reactor end with there nozzles angled outwards and facing towards the center of rotation of the vehicle; once its de-spun the motors are fired for the delta V change. Because of their direction of thrust the floor stays the floor in the crew quarters at the other end of the ship while the motors fire. *So who stays in orbit and who goes down to the surface? Two landers, each capable of carrying half the crew...the first lander goes down with half the crew, and on its return the other half of the crew takes their lander down to a different landing site. This has the advantage that if one of the landers develops a fault on the way to Mars, you can at least get half the planned landing mission out of the trip with the other lander. If something happens to the first lander on the surface that would prevent it leaving Mars, the other lander could serve as a lifeboat with a skeleton crew piloting it down to the surface to pick up the marooned crew. Pat |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Does Mars need women? Russians say no | Jim Oberg | Policy | 95 | February 19th 05 05:06 PM |
Space Calendar - November 26, 2003 | Ron Baalke | Astronomy Misc | 1 | November 28th 03 09:21 AM |
Space Calendar - August 28, 2003 | Ron Baalke | History | 0 | August 28th 03 05:32 PM |
Space Calendar - August 28, 2003 | Ron Baalke | Misc | 0 | August 28th 03 05:32 PM |
Space Calendar - July 24, 2003 | Ron Baalke | History | 0 | July 24th 03 11:26 PM |