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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:
Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. |
#2
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On Oct 8, 10:57*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? |
#3
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. |
#4
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On Oct 9, 6:06*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? |
#5
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe. I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process. Sylvia. |
#6
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On Oct 9, 6:52*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe. I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process. Sylvia. My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or infiltrate almost anywhere. For all I know, most of what is represented by GuthVenus is the result of advanced robotics doing their thing. “Guth Venus” 1:1, plus 10x resample/enlargement of the area in question: https://picasaweb.google.com/1027362...79402364691314 http://groups.google.com/groups/search http://translate.google.com/# Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/”Guth Venus” |
#7
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe. I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process. Sylvia. My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or infiltrate almost anywhere. That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing that the required technology is even capable of existing. Some things may well be impossible. Sylvia |
#8
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On Oct 9, 7:08*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe. I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process. Sylvia. My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or infiltrate almost anywhere. That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing that the required technology is even capable of existing. Some things may well be impossible. Sylvia I never said nor having insisted that we humans currently have all that it would take. However, by the time we've established ourselves with interplanetary travel, there's a pretty darn good chance that we'd have developed the technology necessary for dealing with Venus, and then some. With loads of spare/surplus energy that's essentially renewable, what can't be accomplished? |
#9
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On 10/10/2012 1:30 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 9, 7:08 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe. I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process. Sylvia. My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or infiltrate almost anywhere. That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing that the required technology is even capable of existing. Some things may well be impossible. Sylvia I never said nor having insisted that we humans currently have all that it would take. However, by the time we've established ourselves with interplanetary travel, there's a pretty darn good chance that we'd have developed the technology necessary for dealing with Venus, and then some. With loads of spare/surplus energy that's essentially renewable, what can't be accomplished? OK, I really should have known better. Sylvia. |
#10
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Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)
On Oct 10, 3:02*am, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:30 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 7:08 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote: On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote: On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote: Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs. I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any other technology that might be useful. Sylvia. You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet. Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler star by at least -25%. BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting you. Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas? None of which addresses the point that I raised. Sylvia. Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare. Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer? Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway? I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe. I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process. Sylvia. My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or infiltrate almost anywhere. That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing that the required technology is even capable of existing. Some things may well be impossible. Sylvia I never said nor having insisted that we humans currently have all that it would take. *However, by the time we've established ourselves with interplanetary travel, there's a pretty darn good chance that we'd have developed the technology necessary for dealing with Venus, and then some. With loads of spare/surplus energy that's essentially renewable, what can't be accomplished? OK, I really should have known better. Sylvia. Just because you can't see the benefits or values of intelligence going off-world, and refuse to accept that any other form of intelligence other than provided by Earth can't possibly exist, is not my problem. Are you further suggesting that any off-world resources of energy is worthless to us? What science or laws of physics has local energy as worthless or undesirable? How the hell would a interplanetary capable intelligence not appreciate any planet or moon that offered a surplus of essentially renewable energy? Even that moon Io is offering a perfectly good example of where intelligence could make a go of it, whereas our physically dark and paramagnetic moon would have to be extensively tunneled into before us humans could survive on its core energy and internal cache of elements, along with taking advantage of the 1.4 kw/m2 available to its naked surface, plus a good amount of bluish illumination and a little IR via earthshine that shouldn't go to waste. http://groups.google.com/groups/search http://translate.google.com/# Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/”Guth Venus” |
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