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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:13:20 GMT, in a place far, far away,
h (Rand Simberg) made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Stop trying to attribute all ills of the space program to the fact that people happen to be going as part of the mission, Greg. It's a loser's game, and one that its practioners would (or at least should) have eschewed long ago Doh! "...practitioners..." -- simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole) interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org "Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..." Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me. Here's my email address for autospammers: |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
In article ,
Rand Simberg wrote: What was the failure of the Mars mission that did a controlled flight into terrain, because they didn't know (or care) how to convert from English to metric units, if not bad management? It was bad management, of course. (Although to be fair, Mars is a particularly unforgiving target.) As I said at the beginning of the other thread: With a good mandate, management may be good or bad. But with a bad mandate, management is invariably bad. Public relations has always been the principal purpose of manned spaceflight, not only in the United States but worldwide. It has not been a good mandate since the 1960s. Even then, it was only good in a perverse context, namely the Cold War. How about the original shape of the Hubble mirror--what did that have to do with the fact that it was launched on an Evil Manned Launch System? It was either bad management or bad luck, although flying on the shuttle was an unwelcome distraction for the mission. -- /\ Greg Kuperberg (UC Davis) / \ \ / Visit the Math ArXiv Front at http://front.math.ucdavis.edu/ \/ * All the math that's fit to e-print * |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
Greg Kuperberg wrote:
How about the original shape of the Hubble mirror--what did that have to do with the fact that it was launched on an Evil Manned Launch System? It was either bad management or bad luck, although flying on the shuttle was an unwelcome distraction for the mission. Distraction to whom? Perkin-Elmer? Those in NASA who might've caught it? Where does the nature of the launcher figure into that? |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
In article ,
(Greg Kuperberg) wrote: In article , Herb Schaltegger wrote: }In article , } (Greg Kuperberg) wrote: } It was bad management, of course. (Although to be fair, Mars is a } particularly unforgiving target.) }More "unforgiving" than Mercury? Venus? Jupiter? Saturn? Uranus? }Neptune? Actually landing on Mars is harder than merely orbiting Venus or even Jupiter, or than landing on the moon. Your basis for this statement is suspect. And certainly you realize that there have been at least one (marginally) successful landing on Venus, don't you? Furthermore, your original statement didn't qualify itself as limited to landings, just that ". . . Mars is a particularly unforgiving target." And on that point, I'd have to remind you of Vikings 1 and 2 and Mars Pathfinder; landing is difficult on any body from orbital or interplanetary velocities. It is not, however, impossible. Your penchant for broad, unqualified generalizations is partly why the sci.space long-term regulars don't take you very seriously. Although interestingly they discovered a new difficulty of an inner Jovian orbit mission: massive charged particle radiation. -- Herb Schaltegger, Esq. Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society "I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!" ~ Avery Brooks |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
"Herb Schaltegger" wrote in message ... Your basis for this statement is suspect. And certainly you realize that there have been at least one (marginally) successful landing on Venus, don't you? The Soviet Venera missions were more than marginally successful. http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/venera.html |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
In article link.net,
"Dosco Jones" wrote: "Herb Schaltegger" wrote in message ... Your basis for this statement is suspect. And certainly you realize that there have been at least one (marginally) successful landing on Venus, don't you? The Soviet Venera missions were more than marginally successful. http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/venera.html All the more support for my rebuttal to Mr. Kuperberg, don't you think? -- Herb Schaltegger, Esq. Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society "I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!" ~ Avery Brooks |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
"Herb Schaltegger" wrote in message ... In article link.net, "Dosco Jones" wrote: "Herb Schaltegger" wrote in message ... Your basis for this statement is suspect. And certainly you realize that there have been at least one (marginally) successful landing on Venus, don't you? The Soviet Venera missions were more than marginally successful. http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/venera.html All the more support for my rebuttal to Mr. Kuperberg, don't you think? He's not relevant to me. He's been in my killfile for months. |
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Never mind the shuttle crash, the real threat is the CAIB report
In article ,
Herb Schaltegger wrote: All the more support for my rebuttal to Mr. Kuperberg, don't you think? You're not rebutting any point that I actually meant to make. Part of the reason that MCO crashed is that landing on distant planets is hard. (But not impossible, obviously.) Yes, this applies to Venus as well as to Mars. Saying that Mars is a difficult target is consistent with this because NASA more often wants to land spacecraft on Mars than on most other targets in the Solar System. NASA also wants to land spacecraft on Earth and the moon, but those two are easier than Mars. -- /\ Greg Kuperberg (UC Davis) / \ \ / Visit the Math ArXiv Front at http://front.math.ucdavis.edu/ \/ * All the math that's fit to e-print * |
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On the importance of mandate
In article ,
Greg Kuperberg wrote: ...If the V2 program had really boosted the Nazi military campaign, von Braun's reputation would have had no comeback. After all, even Heisenberg lost most of his friends. Heisenberg lost most of his friends not because he worked for the Nazis, but because he made it clear, late in the war, that he thought German victory would have been a good thing. Working for the Nazis was one thing, but actively sympathizing with them was quite another. ...Even so, it was rightfully controversial to rehabilitate von Braun and his crew for the American missile and space programs. They should have faced judgement, especially for massive use of slave labor in V1 and V2. How so? The V-1 had nothing to do with von Braun & co. at all, and the use of slave labor on the V-2 was not his idea -- he was chief engineer in the V-2 R&D organization, not a factory administrator. (The one or two Peenemuende people who have gotten into trouble over the V-2, notably Arthur Rudolf, were guys who moved from the R&D group to the production administration.) Note that von Braun did not head even V-2 R&D, much less all of Peenemuende or the entire V-2 effort. (There was no one man in charge of the entire V-2 effort, aside from the top political leadership.) -- MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! | |
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