A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Others » Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Every action has equal & opposite reaction?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 30th 08, 06:20 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,860
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

A rocket only has a push to have it go forward. No opposite direction
needed. Go figure Bert

  #2  
Old June 30th 08, 08:10 PM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
Banned
 
First recorded activity by SpaceBanter: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,144
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...
in message ...

A rocket only has a push to have it go forward. No opposite direction
needed. Go figure Bert


Actually, whether it's up in the air or out in space,
Bert, the "thrust" that's needed to "push" a jet or a
rocket is provided by a reaction engine that forces a
fast moving jet of fluid in the rearward direction.
This is in direct accordance with Isaac Newton's laws
of motion. The jet of fluid discharged in the "opposite"
direction makes the jet or rocket move in the forward
direction.

Also, small directional thrusters use this same law of
motion in space to precisely move a spacecraft in
several different directions. They're used for such
things as docking with other spacecraft, orientation
of the vehicle for proper reentry into the atmosphere,
and so on. This is what's happening when you hear
an astronaut ready the ship for a "two-second burn".

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net


  #3  
Old June 30th 08, 08:22 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,860
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

Painius I see it the way it is. Pressure on one side is pushing the
cylinder,and on the opposite side no pressure. Let it be in the Earth's
atmosphere or the vacuum of space does not matter. Think what is
happening when you were a kid and released the end of a toy balloon. The
pressure push was on the end that was closed. pressure no pressure
That is reality Newton was not all wrong on this but I'm 100% right
For I'm calling it the way it is Bert

  #4  
Old July 1st 08, 04:11 PM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
Banned
 
First recorded activity by SpaceBanter: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,144
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...
in message ...

Painius I see it the way it is. Pressure on one side is pushing the
cylinder,and on the opposite side no pressure. Let it be in the Earth's
atmosphere or the vacuum of space does not matter. Think what is
happening when you were a kid and released the end of a toy balloon. The
pressure push was on the end that was closed. pressure no pressure
That is reality Newton was not all wrong on this but I'm 100% right
For I'm calling it the way it is Bert


Still not sure what you're saying, Bert. When i was a
kid and released a toy balloon, the air from the inside
of the balloon rushed out the open end and pushed the
balloon all around in a chaotic motion.

And it's still the same Newtonian law of motion at work:
To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net


  #5  
Old July 1st 08, 04:31 PM posted to alt.astronomy
oldcoot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,357
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

On Jul 1, 8:11*am, "Painius" wrote:
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...

The
pressure push was on the end that was closed. *


Still not sure what you're saying, Bert. *When i was a
kid and released a toy balloon, the air from the inside
of the balloon rushed out the open end and pushed the
balloon all around in a chaotic motion.

Bert is picturing the reactive force as being against the closed end
of the balloon, thus pushing the balloon in that direction. But the
*center of reactive pressure* is actually at the small point of the
nozzle aperture. Thus the balloon is 'pushed around chaotically'
instead of in a straight line. If you remember Goddard's first
rockets, he mounted the engine on `top` of the whole assembly to
achieve stability by the pendulum effect.

  #6  
Old July 1st 08, 05:02 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,860
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

Painius Not arguing the air went out the open end,but their was pressure
on the closed end and this pressure is the push force that pushed the
balloon forward. The gas going out need not push against anything.
Try to picture inside the action taking place Bert

  #7  
Old July 1st 08, 05:13 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,860
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

oc Controlling the opening controls the pressure. Greater pressure
faster the rocket goes. Release the pressure all at once and there is no
push. Pressure goes to less or no pressure. Like heat goes to cold.
Well Painius & oc think about it my way instead of Newtons,and it fits
too Bert

  #8  
Old July 1st 08, 06:40 PM posted to alt.astronomy
Painius Painius is offline
Banned
 
First recorded activity by SpaceBanter: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,144
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...
in message ...

Painius Not arguing the air went out the open end,but their was pressure
on the closed end and this pressure is the push force that pushed the
balloon forward. The gas going out need not push against anything.
Try to picture inside the action taking place Bert


Okay, i get it. You're saying that there is a pressure
difference between the inside of the balloon and the
outside of the balloon at the closed end. And that it
is this pressure on the inside at the closed end that
pushes the balloon. And this pressure, that is there
inside the inflated balloon all the time and pushing
outward on the inside walls of the balloon, is the
force that pushes the balloon when the little nozzle
is opened at the opposite end from the closed end.

Have i got it right so far, Bert?

Now, this pressure on the inside walls of the balloon,
BEFORE the open end is opened, is pretty much the
same amount of pressure on every square inch of
the inside of the balloon, correct?

So if the pressure is pretty much equal at all points
on the inside walls of the balloon, then what exactly
happens AT THE VERY MOMENT that the balloon is
opened? If it is the pressure on the inside walls of
the balloon that drives the balloon forward and away
from the open end, then why doesn't the balloon go
left or right when the open end is opened? Why does
the balloon aways go in the direction that is opposite
from the opened end?

I guess what i'm asking you, Bert, is how does the
pressure, that is equal at all points on the inside of
the balloon just before opening the nozzle, how and
why does that pressure all move instantly to the
closed end and then push JUST at the inside wall at
the closed end? Why doesn't the pressure continue
to push with equal force on every square inch of the
inside walls of the balloon?

Don't you find it suspicious that this pressure that
you say is at the closed end of the balloon just
happens to instantly concentrate itself at the end of
the balloon that is precisely "opposite" from the open
end of the balloon?

And what happens to the pressure, which I assume
is supposed to concentrate in the nose of a jet plane,
when the pilot turns off the jet engine? Where does
it go? And why does it go? And how did the pressure
get there to the nose of the airplane in the first place?

There has to be a *source* for the force, Bert. What
is the source of the forward pressure? What *causes*
it?

Have you fired a gun? Have you felt the recoil or
"kick" just as the bullet leaves the gun? How do you
explain this shoulder-wrenching "kick"?

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net


  #9  
Old July 1st 08, 08:37 PM posted to alt.astronomy
oldcoot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,357
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

On Jul 1, 9:02*am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:

The gas going out need not push against anything.

Correct. Newton's 3rd law.

Try to picture inside the action taking place.

The only 'action taking place' relevant to propulsion occurs at the
nozzle itself. That's the point where the reactive 'push' force is
generated, not inside the balloon. Now instead of a balloon, think of
a liquid fuel rocket. The combustion chamber is tiny, and is at the
bottom of the rocket and vents through a nozzle. The reactive force is
generated right there, not up 'inside' the rocket. Gyro-controlled
active vanes or gimbals direct the flow to keep the rocket stable. The
balloon has no such control, so it skeedaddles chaotically all over
the place.

  #10  
Old July 1st 08, 09:00 PM posted to alt.astronomy
G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,860
Default Every action has equal & opposite reaction?

Painius You ended with the closed end of he gun. Here you are given me
the visa versa. Balloon filed with air of 35psi with no
opening stays put. It has equal pressure on every square inch inside.
Its rubber sides have blown up and it is a ball because its inside
pressure is greater than the 14,5 pressure outside. Poke a pin in it and
it will explode(I love to do that ) Make he right size hole and the
pressure on the inside rubber will push against that 14.5 because it
is about 21 psi stronger. Its the end that still has the pressure but
yes it is losing it.fast Its not the open nozzle that is doing any
pushing. Well Painius lets put it down as thinking in the right
direction,and that is the push direction(had to get that in) Newton
still had it kind of right Go figure Bert

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Every action has equal & opposite reaction? G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_] Misc 0 June 26th 08 09:09 PM
Action and Reaction =0 or -0 or+0 G=EMC^2 Glazier Misc 0 January 7th 07 11:27 PM
Action-reaction in space: the "gyrodine war" heats up (Oberg) Jim Oberg Space Station 0 February 28th 05 06:40 PM
Momentum from Nothing: Action Without Reaction? sanman Technology 6 February 5th 04 07:27 PM
calculating the distance of equal an opposite gravitational pull between the moon and earth Jason Technology 2 October 21st 03 10:37 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.