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LBJ and space travel
On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: M wrote: I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn infrastructure that "it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo Program ended. What else could you do with it? You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out with the *ISS). It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn. You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? And a simple answer of "yes" only adds to your inherent vagueness. |
#2
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LBJ and space travel
On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: M wrote: I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn infrastructure that "it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo Program ended. What else could you do with it? You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out with the *ISS). It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn. You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. |
#3
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LBJ and space travel
On 13 May, 22:26, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: M wrote: I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn infrastructure that "it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo Program ended. What else could you do with it? You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out with the *ISS). It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn. You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. And which cost a lot more. - Ian Parker |
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LBJ and space travel
On May 13, 5:26*pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote: On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: M wrote: I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn infrastructure that "it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo Program ended. What else could you do with it? You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out with the *ISS). It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn. You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? Eric |
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LBJ and space travel
On Wed, 14 May 2008 12:20:23 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 13, 5:26*pm, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: M wrote: I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn infrastructure that "it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo Program ended. What else could you do with it? You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out with the *ISS). It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn. You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? No. Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? No. |
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LBJ and space travel
On May 14, 3:51*pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote: On Wed, 14 May 2008 12:20:23 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 13, 5:26*pm, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: M wrote: I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn infrastructure that "it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo Program ended. What else could you do with it? You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out with the *ISS). It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn. You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? No. Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? No. So in your mind we have yet to build an economic spacecraft be it RLV or ELV? Every manned spacecraft has cost more than it should? |
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LBJ and space travel
On Thu, 22 May 2008 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? No. Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? No. So in your mind we have yet to build an economic spacecraft be it RLV or ELV? Every manned spacecraft has cost more than it should? No, I'm saying that every manned spacecraft has cost more than would have one designed to cost less. |
#8
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LBJ and space travel
On May 22, 4:03*pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote: On Thu, 22 May 2008 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? No. Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? No. So in your mind we have yet to build an economic spacecraft be it RLV or ELV? Every manned spacecraft has cost more than it should? No, I'm saying that every manned spacecraft has cost more than would have one designed to cost less. You're speaking in circles. I don't doubt that a design exists that has yet to be implemented that would bring down launch costs. It is just that no one has marketed it yet and that is most likely because it doesn't exist yet. Please correct me if I am wrong with an actual example. Eric |
#9
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LBJ and space travel
On Fri, 23 May 2008 15:58:01 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? No. Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? No. So in your mind we have yet to build an economic spacecraft be it RLV or ELV? Every manned spacecraft has cost more than it should? No, I'm saying that every manned spacecraft has cost more than would have one designed to cost less. You're speaking in circles. Only to morons. I don't doubt that a design exists that has yet to be implemented that would bring down launch costs. It is just that no one has marketed it yet and that is most likely because it doesn't exist yet. Of course it doesn't exist yet. If it did, we wouldn't even be having this (what barely passes for an intelligent) conversation. That doesn't mean that it cannot exist, or could not have. |
#10
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LBJ and space travel
On May 23, 8:34*pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote: On Fri, 23 May 2008 15:58:01 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get to ISS? We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the Shuttle program was initiated. But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything, especially in terms of $$$? No. Had we continued with Saturns and not necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro- friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long run? No. So in your mind we have yet to build an economic spacecraft be it RLV or ELV? Every manned spacecraft has cost more than it should? No, I'm saying that every manned spacecraft has cost more than would have one designed to cost less. You're speaking in circles. Only to morons. Okay, you're speaking to morons in circles. I don't doubt that a design exists that has yet to be implemented that would bring down launch costs. It is just that no one has marketed it yet and that is most likely because it doesn't exist yet. Of course it doesn't exist yet. *If it did, we wouldn't even be having this (what barely passes for an intelligent) conversation. Where is the intelligent research?! You're the rocket scientist. I guess I just answered my own question. That doesn't mean that it cannot exist, or could not have. Could not have? What, we had it once and like "A Canticle for Liebowitz" the technology has simply disappeared?! What are you saying? Clearly we have yet to make the ideal space vehicle ever and that includes 50 years of trying. There is no we could have when we don't have! Eric |
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