|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
More information on this hypthetical moonship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_core_reactor_rocket A gas core nuclear rocket sustainer with chemical rocket boosters for take off and landing built out of Apollo era hardware, to build and sustain a moonbase. 600,000 lbs lift-off weight 360,000 lbs propellant 180,000 lbs lox 180,000 lbs lh 30,000 lbs booster 150,000 lbs sustainer 150,000 lbs payload weight 90,000 lbs structural weight 45,000 lbs of this is the gas core nuclear fission engine 900,000 lbs thrust at lift off (2x 400,000 lbs - lox/lh liquid fuele booster - J2) (1x 300,000 lbs - lh fueled gas core fission rocket) (8x 15,000 lbs - lox/lh liquid fueled maneuvering rockets - RL10) Chemical booster 450 sec Isp Gas core nuclear susteainer 4,000 sec Isp Top speed; Booster: Vf = 450*9.82*LN(600,000/(600000-210000)) =1,910 m/sec (4,256 mph) Sustainer Vf = 4000*9.82*LN(390,000/(390,000-150,000)) = 19,070 m/sec (45,642 mph) Combined: 20,980 m/sec (49,898 mph) The volume of hydrogen is 1,168 cubic meters (41,277 cf) The volume of oxygen is 68 cubic meter (2,386 cf) total propellant volume is 1,236 cubic meters (43,663 cf) This is about the same volume as the S-II second stage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-II So, one can imagine a reduced oxygen tank size for the SII, and increasing the hydrogen tank by moving the bulkhead between the two - which achieves the 405,000 lb mass with the appropriate mass ratios. Remove the centrally located J2 and add the 45,000 lb weight and 300,000 lb thrust gas core nuclear sustainer in its place. Drop 2 of the 4 remaining J2 engines, keep 2 J2s at boosters at lift off from Earth. Add 4 RL10S clusters (8 total) at 2 of the of old J2 locations for take off landing and meneuvering around the moon. The SIVB is configured for a moonbase module similar to skylab for for operations at 1/6 gee instead of zero gee.. To deploy the SIVB modules on the lunar surface equip the SII with a simple loading crane to erect on the lunar surface and then to lift the SIVB out of its position atop the SII and put it in place near the landing point. Apollo 14 landing next to the Surveyor spacecraft on the moon shows that even in Apollo days you could land pretty accurately on the moon. With a radio transponder the SII-GC version could land at the same point precisely each time. So, the crane could be erected after each landing to remove an additional payload bay. After a half dozen flights a base would be established and the personnel carrier version of the SIVB large enough to carry a crew of 30 - or 10 plus supplies - for crew rotations - would maintain the base after it was completed. http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/winturnv.htm http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...d=8947&start=1 The Model 979 flyback booster for the Saturn SIC - the first stage,of the Saturn V - could easily be adapted for the smaller SII second stage. A large nose cone with cargo doors would carry the SIVB inside |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
On Oct 20, 10:16 pm, Damon Hill wrote:
wrote in news:1192896019.769240.164780 @i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com: More information on this hypthetical moonship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_core_reactor_rocket Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. --Damon Correct. that's the rrub and the assumption. However, consider that a counterflow toroidal system that treats the flowing plasmas as a current loop with their own magnetic fields could use combined magnetic and inertial forces to produce a rather light weight containment with a beta ! - which has been achieved for fusion, but when done for fissile materials result in 100 atm or more pressure as opposed to 1/100th atm - and power densities are similarly high. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
On Oct 20, 7:50 pm, wrote:
On Oct 20, 10:16 pm, Damon Hill wrote: wrote in news:1192896019.769240.164780 @i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com: More information on this hypthetical moonship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_core_reactor_rocket Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. --Damon Correct. that's the rrub and the assumption. However, consider that a counterflow toroidal system that treats the flowing plasmas as a current loop with their own magnetic fields could use combined magnetic and inertial forces to produce a rather light weight containment with a beta ! - which has been achieved for fusion, but when done for fissile materials result in 100 atm or more pressure as opposed to 1/100th atm - and power densities are similarly high. Why not run this "Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship" entirely through a public owned and otherwise fully tax supported along with each of its nerd staff, on behalf of such computer wizards utilizing any one of dozens of our spendy supercomputers, that are fully capable of accomplishing exactly those sorts of virtual R&D as well as delivering those absolutely spiffy Google/NOVA sorts of fully interactive 3D animations in real time? We used to have our national supercomputer borg like collective or cache of "The Machine Room"(s) for accommodating just this sort of complex task. Since we clearly own it (in many cases having paid for several times over), why not use it? - Brad Guth - |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
Damon Hill wrote:
Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. Why should it be? With all the expertise we've acquired in decades of running fusion reactors and scramjets -- the total mastery of turbulence in high-energy, high-gradient flows -- it should be a snap. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
Monte Davis wrote in
: Damon Hill wrote: Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. Why should it be? With all the expertise we've acquired in decades of running fusion reactors and scramjets -- the total mastery of turbulence in high-energy, high-gradient flows -- it should be a snap. Add gamma radiation and neutrons, and many thousands of degrees of temperature beyond our materials science, heat transfer. Only the uninformed think it's going to be 'easy'. Notice they haven't gotten fusion working very well yet? It might not even be the right answer; seems like there are multiple choices. --Damon |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
On Oct 21, 2:49 am, Monte Davis wrote:
Damon Hill wrote: Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. Why should it be? With all the expertise we've acquired in decades of running fusion reactors and scramjets -- the total mastery of turbulence in high-energy, high-gradient flows -- it should be a snap. I agree, as then we should use any one of our supercomputers to nail it down. Isn't that exactly what such public owned supercomputers that run those nifty 3D interactive physics simulators do best? - Brad Guth - |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
Monte Davis wrote:
Damon Hill wrote: Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. Why should it be? With all the expertise we've acquired in decades of running fusion reactors and scramjets -- the total mastery of turbulence in high-energy, high-gradient flows -- it should be a snap. Astonishing ignorance from yet another American. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
On Oct 21, 7:26 am, kT wrote:
Monte Davis wrote: Damon Hill wrote: Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. Why should it be? With all the expertise we've acquired in decades of running fusion reactors and scramjets -- the total mastery of turbulence in high-energy, high-gradient flows -- it should be a snap. Astonishing ignorance from yet another American. And the actual reason(s) you don't like Monte Davis is ?????? What do you know about our public owned supercomputers? - Brad Guth - |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Apollo Era Gas Core Nuclear Rocket Powered Moonship
Damon Hill wrote:
Monte Davis wrote in : Damon Hill wrote: Right. Now all you have to do is actually build a gas core engine. Therein lies a substantial challenge. Why should it be? With all the expertise we've acquired in decades of running fusion reactors and scramjets -- the total mastery of turbulence in high-energy, high-gradient flows -- it should be a snap. Add gamma radiation and neutrons, and many thousands of degrees of temperature beyond our materials science, heat transfer. Only the uninformed think it's going to be 'easy'. Notice they haven't gotten fusion working very well yet? I think you missed the sarcasm tag. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Nuclear powered airliners | Robert Lynn | Policy | 54 | October 18th 05 12:21 AM |
Private Rocket SpaceShipOne Makes Third Rocket-Powered Flight | Rusty B | Space Shuttle | 10 | May 16th 04 02:39 AM |
Private Rocket SpaceShipOne Makes Third Rocket-Powered Flight | Rusty B | Policy | 10 | May 16th 04 02:39 AM |
Private Rocket SpaceShipOne Makes Third Rocket-Powered Flight | Rusty B | Space Shuttle | 1 | May 14th 04 08:46 AM |
Private Rocket SpaceShipOne Makes Third Rocket-Powered Flight | Rusty B | Policy | 1 | May 14th 04 08:46 AM |