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Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 24th 20, 04:25 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On 9/24/2020 8:05 AM, Dean Markley wrote:
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 11:50:19 AM UTC-4, David Spain wrote:
As Pat would also rightly point out, not only Venusian ladies were
purple haired. Apparently it affects women at the Lunar Planetary UFO
Protection Outpost as well. Or perhaps they were wigs to ward off
harmful solar and UV radiation? Pat would have been all for it....

https://24femmespersecond.files.word...6584a7_b-2.jpg


Dave

How dare you insinuate they were wigs!


I must apologize. But I feel I must warn you that in actuality the lunar
outpost is well known to have this effect:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c1/c1...563aba948b.jpg


:-P
  #22  
Old September 24th 20, 07:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On 9/15/2020 11:16 PM, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
I'm all for it.

I mean I love us exploring Mars, but I'd like to see a little more love
for the love planet.



It (Venus) is certainly easier to get to and come back from.

Dave
  #23  
Old September 24th 20, 08:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Dean Markley
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Posts: 515
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 11:25:23 AM UTC-4, David Spain wrote:
On 9/24/2020 8:05 AM, Dean Markley wrote:
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 11:50:19 AM UTC-4, David Spain wrote:
As Pat would also rightly point out, not only Venusian ladies were
purple haired. Apparently it affects women at the Lunar Planetary UFO
Protection Outpost as well. Or perhaps they were wigs to ward off
harmful solar and UV radiation? Pat would have been all for it....

https://24femmespersecond.files.word...6584a7_b-2.jpg

Dave

How dare you insinuate they were wigs!

I must apologize. But I feel I must warn you that in actuality the lunar
outpost is well known to have this effect:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c1/c1...563aba948b.jpg


:-P

Well then her and I have a lot in common when it comes to heads...
  #24  
Old September 24th 20, 08:54 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 548
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Sep/24/2020 at 15:04, Dean Markley wrote :
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 11:25:23 AM UTC-4, David Spain wrote:
On 9/24/2020 8:05 AM, Dean Markley wrote:
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 11:50:19 AM UTC-4, David Spain wrote:
As Pat would also rightly point out, not only Venusian ladies were
purple haired. Apparently it affects women at the Lunar Planetary UFO
Protection Outpost as well. Or perhaps they were wigs to ward off
harmful solar and UV radiation? Pat would have been all for it....

https://24femmespersecond.files.word...6584a7_b-2.jpg

Dave
How dare you insinuate they were wigs!

I must apologize. But I feel I must warn you that in actuality the lunar
outpost is well known to have this effect:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c1/c1...563aba948b.jpg


:-P

Well then her and I have a lot in common when it comes to heads...


Are you posting from a lunar base? From Venus? :-)
Oh! no you are right it is only for females that space outposts has
those effects.


Alain Fournier
  #25  
Old September 24th 20, 09:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On 9/24/2020 3:54 PM, Alain Fournier wrote:

Are you posting from a lunar base? ...


Well plenty of people here and elsewhere have claimed I'm debased.

Oh! no you are right it is only for females that space outposts has
those effects.


I'll spare you the gruesome effects on de-males....

Dave
  #26  
Old September 29th 20, 09:35 PM posted to sci.space.policy
jacob navia
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Posts: 341
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

Le 15/09/2020 Ã* 12:41, Jeff Findley a écritÂ*:
In article ,
says...

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 2:01:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.


snip

See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html


Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!


That would be a good thing. The Soviet Union's landers didn't last long
on the surface


given a temperature of 450 Celsius (842 F) it is not really surprising
that they didn't "laast long". It was incredible that they managed to
survive at all.

and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.

It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life. What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life. Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff


There is no known chemical process that could generate phosphine.
  #27  
Old September 29th 20, 09:49 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 548
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Sep/29/2020 at 16:35, jacob navia wrote :
Le 15/09/2020 Ã* 12:41, Jeff Findley a écritÂ*:
In article ,
says...

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 2:01:21 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on
Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.


snip
See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html


Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!


That would be a good thing.Â* The Soviet Union's landers didn't last long
on the surface


given a temperature of 450 Celsius (842 F) it is not really surprising
that they didn't "laast long". It was incredible that they managed to
survive at all.

and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.

It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life.Â* What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life.Â* Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff


There is no known chemical process that could generate phosphine.


There is also no known chemical process that could generate life. So why
do you assume that life was generated from non life but phosphine was
not generated by non life. Generating phosphine from an unknown process
seems much easier to do than to generate life from an unknown process.


Alain Fournier
  #28  
Old September 30th 20, 04:22 AM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

jacob navia writes:

[snipped for brevity - line length]

given a temperature of 450 Celsius (842 F) it is not really surprising that
they didn't "laast long". It was incredible that they managed to survive at
all.

and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.

It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life. What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life. Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff


There is no known chemical process that could generate phosphine.


I've seen one paper that claims simulated lightning can provide a
natural non-life cause for phosphine gas generation:

https://epic.awi.de/id/eprint/11998/1/Gli2004a.pdf


But the results of the Venus study claim that the amounts of phosphine
detected in the Venusian atmosphere far exceeds the amounts that could
be produced this way.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-020-1174-4


This plus source data from two different observational mechanisms is what
makes all this very intriguing.

Dave
  #29  
Old October 1st 20, 01:06 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 548
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Sep/30/2020 at 19:54, JF Mezei wrote :
On 2020-09-29 16:35, jacob navia wrote:

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.


As any scuba diver knows, the human body can live at great depths where
pressures are many times that of sea level. Where there is a danger is
changing depths and the mixture of gases you need to breathe. (below
certain depth, too much O2 will kill you).

So the hot women of Venus can live at great pressures and stay there.
But they would have a hard time moving to and perhaps surviving in what
we consider normal pressure.

In terms of heat, we do call the venusian women hot for a reason :-)

Did some checking:

Pressure at surface 93 bars. At that pressure water boils at 305.6°C,
but surface temperature is listed as 467°. But if there is a region of
Venus that has tempoeratures never exceed 305°, then theoretically a
water based life form could exist.


The very thick greenhouse gas atmosphere means that surface temperature
will be spread quite evenly throughout the planet. That same phenomenon
explains why global warming here on Earth is increasing temperatures in
polar regions much faster than in equatorial regions, the temperatures
are equalizing a little bit. So you will not find a region of Venus with
temperatures of 305 °C.


Alain Fournier
  #30  
Old October 1st 20, 04:22 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Dean Markley
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Posts: 515
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 8:06:59 PM UTC-4, Alain Fournier wrote:
On Sep/30/2020 at 19:54, JF Mezei wrote :
On 2020-09-29 16:35, jacob navia wrote:

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.


As any scuba diver knows, the human body can live at great depths where
pressures are many times that of sea level. Where there is a danger is
changing depths and the mixture of gases you need to breathe. (below
certain depth, too much O2 will kill you).

So the hot women of Venus can live at great pressures and stay there.
But they would have a hard time moving to and perhaps surviving in what
we consider normal pressure.

In terms of heat, we do call the venusian women hot for a reason :-)

Did some checking:

Pressure at surface 93 bars. At that pressure water boils at 305.6°C,
but surface temperature is listed as 467°. But if there is a region of
Venus that has tempoeratures never exceed 305°, then theoretically a
water based life form could exist.

The very thick greenhouse gas atmosphere means that surface temperature
will be spread quite evenly throughout the planet. That same phenomenon
explains why global warming here on Earth is increasing temperatures in
polar regions much faster than in equatorial regions, the temperatures
are equalizing a little bit. So you will not find a region of Venus with
temperatures of 305 °C.


Alain Fournier

Hi Alain, while not disagreeing with your statement about surface temperature, there are regions in the Venusian atmosphere where temperature varies, particularly with height. At a height of 20 km, the temperature would be around 305 with a pressure of about 22.5 bar. However, I will point out that water at those temperatures and pressures certainly does not behave like the water we all know and love. At such conditions water becomes a very highly oxidizing substance. With all due respect to the Horta of Star Trek, any life form using water at such conditions will be quite different from what we now know.

Dean
 




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