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Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 26th 12, 06:35 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alan Erskine[_3_]
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Default Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?

On 26/05/2012 11:10 AM, bob haller wrote:


will this success defund the planned orion manned launcher?



Hopefully.
  #12  
Old May 26th 12, 09:17 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Default Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?

On May 26, 1:35*am, Alan Erskine wrote:
On 26/05/2012 11:10 AM, bob haller wrote:



will this success defund the planned orion manned launcher?


Hopefully.


me too

Orion is a pure pork piggie

Instead nasa could use dragon to get people to LEO, for far travels a
dragon derived mini station. berth several dragons together launched
seperately, add a dedicated propulsion stage and go explore. a perfect
use for transhab...

the exploration crew could travel in a spacious mini station, for a
fraction of orions cost........



  #17  
Old May 29th 12, 01:52 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Default Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?

In article ci.org,
says...

"bob haller" wrote in message news:b12e1d69-1446-458b-
...
was the breakthru just a awesome idea? or breakthus in materials
engines etc that made it possible?


Obviously yes. Very little has changed in rocketry in over 40, maybe
even 50 years. Only computers have become smaller and more powerful,
but in materials and propulsion technology nothing is used in Falcon 9
/ Dragon that wasn't available in the 1970's, although it might have
been more expensive.


Even LOX/kerosene engines were still "more expensive" when SpaceX
started up, which is why they developed their own engines instead of
buying them "off the shelf". But I see not fundamental reason why a
start up like SpaceX couldn't have built and flown a Falcon 9 in the
70's. But it would have taken someone like Musk to do it. Someone with
deep enough pockets and the vision to take on NASA head to head.

In the 70's, you'd have been crazy to try. NASA's planned "commercial"
flights on the space shuttle meant an end to competition for launch
services in the US. As proof, one only has to look at how the US
subsidized those "commercial" launches. You'd have to be a bit crazy to
want to directly compete with the US government.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #18  
Old May 29th 12, 03:45 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jochem Huhmann
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Default Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?

Jeff Findley writes:

Even LOX/kerosene engines were still "more expensive" when SpaceX
started up, which is why they developed their own engines instead of
buying them "off the shelf". But I see not fundamental reason why a
start up like SpaceX couldn't have built and flown a Falcon 9 in the
70's. But it would have taken someone like Musk to do it. Someone with
deep enough pockets and the vision to take on NASA head to head.


Well, friction-stir welding was invented in 1991. Al-Li alloys weren't
available in the 70's. Then there's a lot of automated manufacturing,
rapid prototyping etc. that was not at all available in the 70's. While
I agree that there are very few totally new things, there are lots of
small new things that helped here. A lot.


And I somehow doubt that modern computers, software, communication etc.
didn't play a role in keeping SpaceX small and fast. You could have done
this with what was common in the 70s, but you'd need more people, more
money, more time, more room, more stuff being handed and sent around...


Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #19  
Old May 29th 12, 04:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Robert Clark
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Default Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?

On May 25, 3:33*pm, bob haller wrote:
was the breakthru just a awesome idea? or breakthus in materials
engines etc that made it possible?


Yes, the Falcon 9 and Dragon could have been built even 30 years ago.
There is nothing particularly innovative about their engines or
stages. They both use methods known about since the 1970's.

Bob Clark

  #20  
Old May 29th 12, 05:40 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
hanson
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Posts: 2,934
Default Could Dragon have been built 20 years sooner?


"Robert Clark" wrote:

bob haller wrote:
was the breakthru just a awesome idea? or breakthus in
materials engines etc that made it possible?

Bob Clark wrote:
Yes, the Falcon 9 and Dragon could have been built
even 30 years ago.
There is nothing particularly innovative about their
engines or stages. They both use methods known
about since the 1970's.

hanson wrote:
Yeah, there are very few new material/tech novos.
It's still all old Penemuende Nazi Rocket Technology,
AND...
if you guys have ever done any biz with NASA
or worked there, it should be clear to you that the
breakthrough for Space-X etc is their MO NOT
to bloat themselves with nepotistic, corrupt and
bizarre bureaucracies which do exist in NASA &
& other Govt Agencies, & especially in EPA.


 




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