The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon

On 4/9/2016 12:20 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sergio wrote:

On 4/8/2016 3:25 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sergio wrote:



silly boy,

the moon and mar have NO AIR, NO WATER, NO FOOD, NOTHING but sand and
rocks, and high radiation.



The key here is the horrendous cost of getting things to the Moon or Mars
in the first place and that any equipment used there will likely be a
one off custom design that will come at another huge expense.


take O2, how do you extract that from rocks ? What is needed rate of
production? What does it take ? how much does the O2 plant weigh ?


Oven. Whatever is needed. Oven. Whatever it needs to.

no answer ?


I gave you an answer. You just don't like it.

your mom's microwave oven ?

fool.



try to think it through.


Great advice. You should follow it.

I dont expect any real answers or thoughts from you, you are an airhead.
an airy-fairy new age pupa,




man needs 500 liters of O2 per day
there are 10 men up there, 2 are needed to run the O2 plant,


Why? It's automated.

how big is your magic O2 plant ? how much molten salt does it have ?

how many tons of rock must it decompose per hour ?




and 2 are needed to run the Water plant,


Why? It's automated.

how do you get water out of a almost perfect vacuum ?




and 2 are needed to run the N2 plant.


Why? It's automated.

where do you get N2 from ?


so your O2 flow rate is 5,000 liters per day,
your N2 flow rate is 15,000 liters per day (assume a 25% O2)
and about 7.5 liters of water per day per person

so how many tons rocks do you cook per day ?


Figure it out. A person needs less than a kilogram of oxygen per day.
Lunar rocks are typically about 40% oxygen by weight. So given your
specified crew size (which you didn't bother with before when you
asked the question) you need to cook about .01 tons of rock per day.

try again, you are off by 10,000 tones per day. you suck at simple math

how do you grind up the rocks ? how much energy does that take ?

how do you clean the salt ?





How much energy is needed to run the rock cooking plant?


What does it matter? You have ****loads available from the Sun.

wrong answer, but it is what I expect from you, and airy-fairy hippie
trippy baboon.

you got 400 watts from the sun, the water and O2 plants take 400,000 watts.

you gonna use your D cell battery ? you going to use your generator on
a bike and pedale 400,000 watts ?




What type of rocks work for O2 that are on the surface ?


Almost any of them. Lunar rock is largely oxides of various types.

answer the question you evasive twit. what type of rocks ?



where do you get 24 liters of water per day ? (assume a 25% recapture rate)


Why is the recapture rate so low? Why does your math not work out?
Your earlier claim was 10 people times 7.5 liters per day (which is
high, by the way) which gives a 75 liter per day requirement with 25%
recapture (around 19 liters) which leaves a 56 liter per day
requirement. Now that's down to 24 liters for some reason. It's
simple arithmetic, dude. Keep it straight.

the question is WHERE do you get 24 liters of water per day ? answer
the questions!



There are several thousand ppm water in typical lunar rock, but you
don't need to mess with that. You get the water from ice deposits. At
the rate you're talking there's plenty.

so the astronoughts have to go out and look for and mine "ice deposits"
? sure, that is a winner, how many men go out and look for your moon ice
cubes?

air-head.




Biofilm questions: where does the lost water go? will the biofilm cause
dammage to the electronics? How much energy is used to keep the
Humidity down to below 70% ?


Never heard of a dehumidifier? They're all the rage here on Earth.
Again, how much power doesn't matter because there is ****loads lying
around for free.

wrong again, go find out what they do for the space station, it is huge
problem.
you oversimplify everything,
you should voulenteer for moon or mars and go there for 3 years.




how do you reprocess the salt bath used for cooking the rocks ?


Uh, the what? Think 'oven', not 'crock pot'.

you have no idea how to cook rocks to get O2, you are a simple parrot
with no brain at all



What rocks do you cook to get N2 ???


Any of them. Content is fairly low (on the order of 10 ppm).

wrong, answer the question. what rocks do you cook to get N2 ?

gonna look for SiN ?? another mining adventure for your astronuts.







now, where do you get the N2 ? not from rocks...


Why not? Does Google not work on your machine, either?

you cannot find any common rocks with N in them, right ?

you have not thought this through have you?


Nitrogen isn't consumed the way oxygen is, so you don't need to
produce it at the rates you claim. In fact, your whole atmospheric
calculation is wonky.

where is yours ? oh, you dont have any. Polly want a thought ?



go look on the NASA site, you wont see answers to the hard problems
either, although there are lots of studies on these issues.

Radiation! requires men on either moon or mars to live below ground 20
feet, and only go to surface 5% of the time. 95% of the time they must
be in the underground shelter, large tin can, to keep the radiation from
making them all go blind.


Cite for your preceding claims?

NASA web site.






what is the rate of water you can get from the vaccuum of moon/mars
surface ? 100 grams per day ?


As much as you need. Both have lots of ice deposits

dream on, tell your moon men to go suck on ice cubes at the poles.


Jesus, but you're a stupid troll. Perhaps you should pull your head
out of the Chimp's ass? I assume it's up his, because you don't seem
able to find your own ass with both hands.


you give in to insulting, because I win, you cannot do the math at all,
you just an airhead parrot.

On 4/17/2016 3:01 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sergio wrote:

On 4/9/2016 12:20 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sergio wrote:

On 4/8/2016 3:25 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sergio wrote:



silly boy,

the moon and mar have NO AIR, NO WATER, NO FOOD, NOTHING but sand and
rocks, and high radiation.



The key here is the horrendous cost of getting things to the Moon or Mars
in the first place and that any equipment used there will likely be a
one off custom design that will come at another huge expense.


take O2, how do you extract that from rocks ? What is needed rate of
production? What does it take ? how much does the O2 plant weigh ?


Oven. Whatever is needed. Oven. Whatever it needs to.

no answer ?


I gave you an answer. You just don't like it.

your mom's microwave oven ?


Good lord, just go look it up for yourself, then.

unresponsive






try to think it through.


Great advice. You should follow it.


I dont expect any real answers or thoughts from you, you are an airhead.
an airy-fairy new age pupa,


That's really quite amusing and I'm afraid just shows what a stupid
****e you actually are.


unresponsive





man needs 500 liters of O2 per day
there are 10 men up there, 2 are needed to run the O2 plant,


Why? It's automated.


how big is your magic O2 plant ? how much molten salt does it have ?


What is your fixation with 'molten salt'? There are electrolytic
processes that would use molten salt, but it's not 'used up' so it's
not a big deal.

wrong. and again answer the question you evasive twit! what "magic"
technology are you proposing to extract O2 from your moon rocks ?

you have no clue.



how many tons of rock must it decompose per hour ?


Asked and answered. Martian rocks are largely oxides and are about a
third oxygen by weight. So how many tons of oxygen do you think you
need per hour? Multiply that by three.

again, no numbers, no math, because it is fiction.

Make it real. how are you going to decompose moon rocks into O2 ?

Your version.

Answer NOW !








and 2 are needed to run the Water plant,


Why? It's automated.


how do you get water out of a almost perfect vacuum ?


Uh, you know there's lots of water on Mars, right? It exists as both
frozen ice and as liquid brines.


so you are going to have your men on mars hunt for frozen ice ? and
liquid bribes ?

How much O2 and water does that take ?

you haven't thought any of this through, Polly.

How many hours a day can they stay on the surface without getting too
much radiation exposure ? (hint: 2 hours MAX)








and 2 are needed to run the N2 plant.


Why? It's automated.


where do you get N2 from ?


N2, as has been pointed out to you several times, is not consumed so I
don't need to 'get it' from anywhere.

because you cant melt rocks to get N2 dummy.



so your O2 flow rate is 5,000 liters per day,
your N2 flow rate is 15,000 liters per day (assume a 25% O2)
and about 7.5 liters of water per day per person

so how many tons rocks do you cook per day ?


Figure it out. A person needs less than a kilogram of oxygen per day.
Lunar rocks are typically about 40% oxygen by weight. So given your
specified crew size (which you didn't bother with before when you
asked the question) you need to cook about .01 tons of rock per day.

try again, you are off by 10,000 tones per day. you suck at simple math


Jesus, son, take your bloody shoes off and try again.

you may call me Jesus, and you may worship me now. It is OK.



how do you grind up the rocks ? how much energy does that take ?


We've had pulping mills for centuries.

you havent. you are assuming earth energy available on mars and moon,
which is lunacy.



how do you clean the salt ?


What's with you and this fixation with salt and what do you think you
need to 'clean' out of it?

Ok, how are you going to decompose your rocks to get O2.

Answer the Question. NOW







How much energy is needed to run the rock cooking plant?


What does it matter? You have ****loads available from the Sun.


wrong answer, but it is what I expect from you, and airy-fairy hippie
trippy baboon.

you got 400 watts from the sun, the water and O2 plants take 400,000 watts.


Which orifice did you pull that power requirement number out of? I've
got 400 watts from the Sun PER METER OF PHOTOVOLTAIC CELLS.

nope, 200 max


So I lay
out a 1000x1000 meter area of cells. Multiply it out; 1000x1000x0.4
gives 400kW, so if that's what you need (and that's a stupidly high
number, by the way, unless you need something like a quarter ton of
oxygen per day) that's what you do.

so you put out a square mile of solar cells, how much did it cost to do
that, and now you have to have another man up there cleaning off the
solar cells all the time, cheaper to put a nuke battery up there.




you gonna use your D cell battery ? you going to use your generator on
a bike and pedale 400,000 watts ?


Is that how you get your electricity here? In situ solar and (if
necessary) imported nuclear reactors is what I'd use on Mars, but what
you do is your problem.

Im not going to Mars, no air, no water no food, live in a can 22 hours a
day to survive the radiation.

But you deserve to go up there.





What type of rocks work for O2 that are on the surface ?


Almost any of them. Lunar rock is largely oxides of various types.


answer the question you evasive twit. what type of rocks ?


Asked and answered multiple times, you ignorant ****. Why is Mars
red?

liar. what type of rocks ? can you google and find out ? why would
there be oxide rocks of any kind if no air was on mars ?


or did you forget again and assume earth rocks are on mars ?





where do you get 24 liters of water per day ? (assume a 25% recapture rate)


Why is the recapture rate so low? Why does your math not work out?
Your earlier claim was 10 people times 7.5 liters per day (which is
high, by the way) which gives a 75 liter per day requirement with 25%
recapture (around 19 liters) which leaves a 56 liter per day
requirement. Now that's down to 24 liters for some reason. It's
simple arithmetic, dude. Keep it straight.


the question is WHERE do you get 24 liters of water per day ? answer
the questions!


There's all sorts of water all over Mars. Listen to the answers!

liar, in any given location there may be up to 4 atoms of water.

it is a stinking vacuum, Polly.





There are several thousand ppm water in typical lunar rock, but you
don't need to mess with that. You get the water from ice deposits. At
the rate you're talking there's plenty.


so the astronoughts have to go out and look for and mine "ice deposits"
? sure, that is a winner, how many men go out and look for your moon ice
cubes?


No, moron. You locate the ice first. DOH!

no you do it, you say there is water all over mars, where ? got URL ?

or are you just making this stuff up ? (yes polly, you are dreaming
full time)



air-head.


Dip****.

twerker





Biofilm questions: where does the lost water go? will the biofilm cause
dammage to the electronics? How much energy is used to keep the
Humidity down to below 70% ?


Never heard of a dehumidifier? They're all the rage here on Earth.
Again, how much power doesn't matter because there is ****loads lying
around for free.


wrong again, go find out what they do for the space station, it is huge
problem.


Wrong again. Gravity makes a lot of problems easier.

google for it Dumbass.

vacuum of space on mars, moon, between your ears causes lots of problems



you oversimplify everything,


Nope. I simplify it just enough. You, meanwhile, don't think
anything can be done that hasn't been done and that a lot of things
that HAVE been done cannot be done.

non responsive




you should voulenteer for moon or mars and go there for 3 years.


You should learn to spell.

they need Engrlish teachers on Mars to find ice chips and suck the O2
out of rocks.





how do you reprocess the salt bath used for cooking the rocks ?


Uh, the what? Think 'oven', not 'crock pot'.


you have no idea how to cook rocks to get O2, you are a simple parrot
with no brain at all


Lots of people have already done lots of research about this. I'd
give you cites to some, but I think you're too stupid to read.

liar, you have no cites.






What rocks do you cook to get N2 ???


Any of them. Content is fairly low (on the order of 10 ppm).


wrong, answer the question. what rocks do you cook to get N2 ?


Asked and answered. You not liking the answer doesn't make it
invalid.

liar, again you do not know, you are making stuff up.




gonna look for SiN ?? another mining adventure for your astronuts.


Which part of 'any of them' and 'nitrogen isn't consumed so does not
have to be replenished' is it that's confusing you?

of course it is consumed, all gases in space vehicles lose gas, but you
dont know that. or much of anything else, right Polly ? SwAwKK !









now, where do you get the N2 ? not from rocks...


Why not? Does Google not work on your machine, either?

you cannot find any common rocks with N in them, right ?

you have not thought this through have you?


Nitrogen isn't consumed the way oxygen is, so you don't need to
produce it at the rates you claim. In fact, your whole atmospheric
calculation is wonky.


where is yours ? oh, you dont have any. Polly want a thought ?


Oh, I see. I note that YOU are ****ed up and that's my fault? Yeah,
sure.

your projecting again, nothing from you crank. as expected.

wild clames, no thought behind any of them.






go look on the NASA site, you wont see answers to the hard problems
either, although there are lots of studies on these issues.

Radiation! requires men on either moon or mars to live below ground 20
feet, and only go to surface 5% of the time. 95% of the time they must
be in the underground shelter, large tin can, to keep the radiation from
making them all go blind.


Cite for your preceding claims?


NASA web site.


Not a cite. Try again, dip****. Point to the page.

here you go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0e9cPB08Y







what is the rate of water you can get from the vaccuum of moon/mars
surface ? 100 grams per day ?


As much as you need. Both have lots of ice deposits

dream on, tell your moon men to go suck on ice cubes at the poles.


Jesus, but you're a stupid troll. Perhaps you should pull your head
out of the Chimp's ass? I assume it's up his, because you don't seem
able to find your own ass with both hands.


you give in to insulting, because I win, you cannot do the math at all,
you just an airhead parrot.


Irony. It's not at all like goldy or silvery.

Airhead Polly Parrot crank. No science at all.