Apollo Saturn SIVB Lunar Impacts vs LCROSS Impact Mission

Granted the few SIVB third stages from the Apollo Saturn V launches that hit
the moon didn't impact anywhere near the Moon's polar region, but didn't
their mass, speed and more direct angle create far more impressive impact
craters and ejecta than the LCROSS's significantly smaller Centaur stage?

Which leads to the question of why couldn't scientists observe the impact
via observatories back in the early 70's while we the public are being told
we can see LCROSS's impact through basically backyard telescopes.

And has any subsequent Lunar observation mission ever photographed any of
the SIVB impact craters like what was recently done with the Apollo Lunar
Module landing sites?

Peter Cushing's Ghost wrote:
Granted the few SIVB third stages from the Apollo Saturn V launches that
hit the moon didn't impact anywhere near the Moon's polar region, but
didn't their mass, speed and more direct angle create far more
impressive impact craters and ejecta than the LCROSS's significantly
smaller Centaur stage?

Which leads to the question of why couldn't scientists observe the
impact via observatories back in the early 70's while we the public are
being told we can see LCROSS's impact through basically backyard
telescopes.

The point is not to observe the crater or ejecta, the point is to
analyze the spectra of all the stuff thrown up by the impact. That's
much harder to see against a lunar background, which is why LCROSS's
impact is being targeted for a limb - and particularly the south polar
limb, which is believed to contain water ice deposits. That way all the
debris will be viewed against a space background.

The S-IVB impacts were not similarly targeted because their purpose was
to test the seismometers placed by the landing missions.

Peter Cushing's Ghost wrote:
Granted the few SIVB third stages from the Apollo Saturn V launches that
hit the moon didn't impact anywhere near the Moon's polar region, but
didn't their mass, speed and more direct angle create far more
impressive impact craters and ejecta than the LCROSS's significantly
smaller Centaur stage?

Which leads to the question of why couldn't scientists observe the
impact via observatories back in the early 70's while we the public are
being told we can see LCROSS's impact through basically backyard
telescopes.
And has any subsequent Lunar observation mission ever photographed any
of the SIVB impact craters like what was recently done with the Apollo
Lunar Module landing sites?

At least one S-IVB impact crater has been imaged by LRO:
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/?archi...ct-Crater.html
The problem with trying to see the LCROSS impact from Earth is that it's
right at one of the lunar poles, so we are looking at it side-on rather
than from above.

Pat

On Oct 8, 9:44*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
Peter Cushing's Ghost wrote:
Granted the few SIVB third stages from the Apollo Saturn V launches that
hit the moon didn't impact anywhere near the Moon's polar region, but
didn't their mass, speed and more direct angle create far more
impressive impact craters and ejecta than the LCROSS's significantly
smaller Centaur stage?

Which leads to the question of why couldn't scientists observe the
impact via observatories back in the early 70's while we the public are
being told we can see LCROSS's impact through basically backyard
telescopes.
And has any subsequent Lunar observation mission ever photographed any
of the SIVB impact craters like what was recently done with the Apollo
Lunar Module landing sites?

At least one S-IVB impact crater has been imaged by LRO:http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/?archi...IVB-Impact-Cra...
The problem with trying to see the LCROSS impact from Earth is that it's
right at one of the lunar poles, so we are looking at it side-on rather
than from above.

Pat

14+ tonnes made only a 25 meter splat?

That impact site much have been nothing but a hundred plus meters
worth of extremely lose rock and dark as coal dust.

What's the bright white stuff?

~ BG

On Oct 8, 9:44*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
Peter Cushing's Ghost wrote:
Granted the few SIVB third stages from the Apollo Saturn V launches that
hit the moon didn't impact anywhere near the Moon's polar region, but
didn't their mass, speed and more direct angle create far more
impressive impact craters and ejecta than the LCROSS's significantly
smaller Centaur stage?

Which leads to the question of why couldn't scientists observe the
impact via observatories back in the early 70's while we the public are
being told we can see LCROSS's impact through basically backyard
telescopes.
And has any subsequent Lunar observation mission ever photographed any
of the SIVB impact craters like what was recently done with the Apollo
Lunar Module landing sites?

At least one S-IVB impact crater has been imaged by LRO:http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/?archi...IVB-Impact-Cra...
The problem with trying to see the LCROSS impact from Earth is that it's
right at one of the lunar poles, so we are looking at it side-on rather
than from above.

Pat

There's h2o of perhaps 50 ppm in that basalt, and perhaps otherwise
lots more as a mineral brine deeper within.

14+ tonnes made only a 25 meter splat?

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/?archi...ct-Crater.html
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/upload...sivb_thumb.png

That impact site must have been nothing but a hundred plus meters
worth of extremely lose rock and otherwise looking dark as coal dust.

What's the bright white stuff? (sodium?)

~ BG