[FWD] Apollo veterans to get moon rocks (sort of)

....You'd think that the ones who brought the damn things back would be
entitled to at least one rock of their choice:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5431472/

I smell a PAO rat in all this again...

OM

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his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

OM wrote:
...You'd think that the ones who brought the damn things back would be
entitled to at least one rock of their choice:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5431472/

I smell a PAO rat in all this again...

I never thought about this but it's a disgrace that they weren't
*already* given nice specimens to call their own. The article mentions
NASA's recent efforts to track down and prosecute offenders. They even
tried to prosecute workers who had collected *dust* from the Apollo
suits when they came back! They lost on a technicality over the legal
definition of "dust" I guess.

What a crock. It makes me sick just to think that they pursue this with
such zeal. Their attitude is quite clearly "The lunar rocks are OURS
and you'll never, ever own one. If you're lucky we'll let you see one.
Touching one costs extra."

I mean, I agree that the samples are a priceless national treasure, but
if you've got 800 pounds of rocks and you "lose" or misplace or give
away maybe 1% of that over the course of 35 years then you're doing
pretty good regardless. It's not like you can eat them, or that NatSec
would be endangered by them going missing.

--
bp
Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003

"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote
in message ...
...You'd think that the ones who brought the damn things back would be
entitled to at least one rock of their choice:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5431472/

I smell a PAO rat in all this again...

I'm in complete agreement with OM on this.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:55:01 -0500, OM wrote:

...You'd think that the ones who brought the damn things back would be
entitled to at least one rock of their choice:


Agreed. They each deserve one, no question. Even a small 5-20 gram
specimen.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5431472/

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:55:01 -0500, OM wrote:

...You'd think that the ones who brought the damn things back would be
entitled to at least one rock of their choice:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5431472/


Well one of the more famous Apollo mission astronauts*, who went to the
moon twice but never got to set foot on it owns a restaurant** with his
son*** in a town north of Chicago. Said restaurant has an object PURPORTED
to be a moon rock on display in a case in a lower level dining room.

* not naming any names.

** which also has on display over the bar a magnificent mural entitled
"Steeds of Apollo" which came from the St. Regis hotel in New York, and
which was the model for the mission patch of the Apollo mission which the
astronaut in question commanded. The mural was purchased at auction by a
certain Mr. T. Hanks and presented to the Astronaut as a gift. Said Mr.
Hanks also had a sculpture made based on this painting which he used as a
backdrop to his introductions to a certain mini-series originally shown on
HBO.

*** Who has the same name as his father save for a III instead of jr. He
is also the chef. The food, by the way, is excellent. Several of the
space nuts who regularly attend the IPMS/USA national convention visited
the restaurant a few years back when the convention was in Chicago, and
saw what is described, and enjoyed their dinners.

I notice that this restaurant has been mentioned in the thread about
Chicago.

Here's a picture of our little group with some fat guys hiding the
"moon rock".

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/model...001ipms21.html

I'm the one in the middle.

And now that I've refreshed my memory, this room is on the second floor,
not in the basement.

Rick DeNatale wrote:

I'm the one in the middle.

And now that I've refreshed my memory, this room is on the second floor,
not in the basement.


God, we all prefer beer and cheese to exercise, don't we? :-D

Pat
(around 1/6th ton)

"Rick DeNatale" wrote in message
news
I notice that this restaurant has been mentioned in the thread about
Chicago.

Here's a picture of our little group with some fat guys hiding the
"moon rock".

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/model...001ipms21.html

I'm the one in the middle.

And now that I've refreshed my memory, this room is on the second floor,
not in the basement.


The building is 2 story with basement and the other 2 dining rooms - have
windows
The Odyssey (as I remember) .. is on the second floor.

I went downstairs to the Captain's Quarters (I would be happy to return)
http://www.lovellsoflakeforest.com/index.pl/online_tour

gb

Bruce Palmer ) wrote:
: OM wrote:
: ...You'd think that the ones who brought the damn things back would be
: entitled to at least one rock of their choice:
:
: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5431472/
:
: I smell a PAO rat in all this again...

: I never thought about this but it's a disgrace that they weren't
: *already* given nice specimens to call their own. The article mentions
: NASA's recent efforts to track down and prosecute offenders. They even
: tried to prosecute workers who had collected *dust* from the Apollo
: suits when they came back! They lost on a technicality over the legal
: definition of "dust" I guess.

Well don't act like this is a first for the government. In the case of
money, at one point you were allowed to coin your own money. This was
common practice in San Francisco after the gold rush. You would bring your
gold to an assay office that would weigh it and detrmine its value and
take a small percentage for doing so. Some could convert your gold into a
coin complete with obverse and reverse markings. Well, the USG changed all
that by making it illegal for anyone to coin their own money and the
proceeded to make smaller coins with the same denominations as the private
coin makers.

What does moon rocks have to do with money? Plenty. In 1913 five Liberty
"V" nickels were made. That was the same year as the first Buffalo
nickel. The former were all bought and owned by one man that eventually
sold them. It was later speculated that the one man had a mint employee
illegally make them for him. What has become of this sort of thing is
that when something like a rarity (moon rock), or a mistake (1913 V
nickel)comes into the public eye, it belongs to the government and no private
citizen is legally allowed to own it. The understanding is that it belongs
to all of us and should be available to be seen in a museum like the Air
and Space Museum and that a private individual would price gouge you to
see. The National Park Sevice was set up for similar reasons to gain
access to them.

: What a crock. It makes me sick just to think that they pursue this with
: such zeal. Their attitude is quite clearly "The lunar rocks are OURS
: and you'll never, ever own one. If you're lucky we'll let you see one.
: Touching one costs extra."

Access to the Air and Space Museum is free.

: I mean, I agree that the samples are a priceless national treasure, but
: if you've got 800 pounds of rocks and you "lose" or misplace or give
: away maybe 1% of that over the course of 35 years then you're doing
: pretty good regardless. It's not like you can eat them, or that NatSec
: would be endangered by them going missing.

Agreed. But where do you draw the line? 1% or 8 lbs.? Why? Why not more?
Okay, where?

As a last mention of coins, if you own a 1964 Peace Dollar, do not show it
to anybody. To this day it is illegal to own and the Secret Service has
reserved the right to confiscate any and all samples that were made that
may not have been destroyed. Period!

Eric

: --
: bp
: Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003

Eric Chomko wrote:
Well don't act like this is a first for the government. In the case of
money, at one point you were allowed to coin your own money. This was
common practice in San Francisco after the gold rush. You would bring your
gold to an assay office that would weigh it and detrmine its value and
take a small percentage for doing so. Some could convert your gold into a
coin complete with obverse and reverse markings. Well, the USG changed all
that by making it illegal for anyone to coin their own money and the
proceeded to make smaller coins with the same denominations as the private
coin makers.

Yes, the federal govt. wasn't always in the business of regulating
money. Now you can hardly earn or spend a nickel without them wanting
to know about it, never mind making your own.

snip

Access to the Air and Space Museum is free.

I forgot about NASM, I was thinking only of KSC and other non-free
museums. You're right.

: I mean, I agree that the samples are a priceless national treasure, but
: if you've got 800 pounds of rocks and you "lose" or misplace or give
: away maybe 1% of that over the course of 35 years then you're doing
: pretty good regardless. It's not like you can eat them, or that NatSec
: would be endangered by them going missing.
Agreed. But where do you draw the line? 1% or 8 lbs.? Why? Why not more?
Okay, where?

It's all relative Most of the samples returned are locked away in a
vault. If they all disappeared tomorrow would science be any worse off?
Are there any valuable scientific insights locked away inside them that
haven't been discovered yet? I'm not aware of any ongoing studies
involving the Apollo sample returns.

If the Exploration Initiative comes off and we get back to the moon in
another 25 years or so scientists will have access to new samples.
Maybe selling moon rocks is one of the private enterprise business
models envisioned for this venture. Supply and demand. I think if
anyone could freely buy a moon rock at a reasonable price the actual
demand would be small. It's their scarcity that makes ordinary people
and collectors covet them.

As a last mention of coins, if you own a 1964 Peace Dollar, do not show it
to anybody. To this day it is illegal to own and the Secret Service has
reserved the right to confiscate any and all samples that were made that
may not have been destroyed. Period!

Interesting. I wonder if they follow up on anonymous tips.

--
bp
Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003