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Lat/Long system for Mars continued



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 3rd 18, 12:12 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

When Gemma Frisius first proposed the use of timekeeping to locate geographical locations on Earth in 1530, it took a number of centuries to get the scheme running as accurate clocks were perhaps the first real expression of engineering on a fine and intricate scale.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~...ongitude1.html

I don't particularly mind that it will eventually dawn on some people that to create a timekeeping system allied with a Lat/Long system for Mars, they will have to retrace the principles which makes the system on Earth work so well. It is here that the celestial sphere enthusiasts fall away although there will be no problem creating an RA/Dec system for Mars once its calendar system is nailed down by an integer of day/night cycles to orbital circuits.









  #2  
Old December 4th 18, 12:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

The Martian hour will be derived as an entirely new value along with minutes and seconds so trying to impose the average 24 hour values designed for the Earth on to the Lat/Long system of Mars is merely noise from those who are not comfortable with the timekeeping structure for the Earth.

The system of the Earth is clean - 15 degrees of geographical separation equates to 1 hour time difference and much the same for Mars once the Martian values are ascertained from much the same process which created the average 24 hour day and subsequently a rotation rate of 15 degrees per hour via the La/Long system.

Mars has a slightly polar climate bias insofar as the 25.2 degree inclination results in a larger Arctic/Antarctic circle equivalent with slight greater variations in daylight/darkness asymmetries across latitudes. The combination of the surface rotation arising from this orbital motion allied with a fairly rapid daily rotation will produce Equation of Time values vastly different from the Earth's timekeeping facility which reduces variations in natural noon to a 24 hour average.

The structure of timekeeping on Earth is fairly straightforward when divided into the necessary extra day/rotation after four cycles of 365 days/rotation necessary to keep rotations fixed to orbital points. The human input was to format the 1461 rotations for four orbital circuits into a timekeeping structure of equable and continuous 24 hour days into which the Lat/long system and the average 24 hour day fits.

So, it is an exciting opportunity to format a planet with a timekeeping system with its own distinct 24 hour day (equal hours,minutes and seconds) and calendar system similar to the one that works so well on this planet. Mars will have its own leap day once the 24 hour day is established using the sunrise/noon/sunset events that constitute the main milestones for the planet's rotation.

It is one of those things where people suddenly wake up to the possibilities but finding themselves in a swamp of 'day' definitions, don't appreciate the clear route to a system that works for Mars.
  #3  
Old December 5th 18, 09:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

To create a calendar system for Mars in tandem with a 24 and Lat/Long system is considerably easier that the original system which created the leap day/rotation correction in terms of the relationship between rotations and an orbital circuit.

The fundamental use of a background star to provide an orbital marker using rotations as a gauge is now easily gauged by using a satellite like SOHO which would capture the transition of a star from left to right of the Sun as it, along with the Earth, orbits the Sun -

https://helioviewer.org/

The current value of 687 Earth days for a Martian orbital circuit would change as the rotational period of Mars is based on Earth hours, minutes and seconds so the conversion into a unique set of values assigned to a Martian leap day/rotation is contingent on the generation of a 24 hour Martian day, the value for one rotation are fairly close to that of the Earth to borrow the terms.

The fact that the line-of-sight transition of the stars from left to right of the Sun due to the orbital motion of the Earth alone can now be identified by SOHO as can the additional drift (Precession of the Equinoxes) beyond the large leap year adjustment is a result that even the leap year adjustment is only approximate proportion of rotations to orbital circuits.



  #4  
Old December 6th 18, 12:00 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

Presently, images of a Lat/Long system are scarce for Mars and with good reason -

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oximity-of.png

Thankfully there is no 24 hour cycle with prime meridian, dateline, hour divisions or any of the other timekeeping features which make Earth timekeeping a masterpiece -

https://s22380.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...map-ALPO_A.jpg


It is tempting to just say that the Equatorial circumference of Mars generates an equatorial speed of 889.3 km per Earth hour but then it would not mesh with time divisions/ distances of 15 degrees/1 hour as on Earth.

Basically Mars is a clean sheet with the hour value unknown as the integer of hours which operate with the geometry/geography of Mars go into identifying exact locations as per a workable GPS system with the equivalent of geostationary satellites and so on.

People have woken up to the endeavour and that in itself is an accomplishment so while most will, of course, lean on old familiar jargon, there is something special about creating a working system for another planet using the masterpiece we inherited from our ancestors.

  #5  
Old December 6th 18, 12:54 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Presently, images of a Lat/Long system are scarce for Mars and with good reason -

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oximity-of.png

Thankfully there is no 24 hour cycle with prime meridian, dateline, hour
divisions or any of the other timekeeping features which make Earth
timekeeping a masterpiece -

https://s22380.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...map-ALPO_A.jpg


It is tempting to just say that the Equatorial circumference of Mars
generates an equatorial speed of 889.3 km per Earth hour but then it
would not mesh with time divisions/ distances of 15 degrees/1 hour as on Earth.

Basically Mars is a clean sheet with the hour value unknown as the
integer of hours which operate with the geometry/geography of Mars go
into identifying exact locations as per a workable GPS system with the
equivalent of geostationary satellites and so on.

People have woken up to the endeavour and that in itself is an
accomplishment so while most will, of course, lean on old familiar
jargon, there is something special about creating a working system for
another planet using the masterpiece we inherited from our ancestors.



The Martian prime meridian passes through Sinus Meridiani. Hint - what does
the name suggest?


  #6  
Old December 6th 18, 01:49 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 11:54:25 AM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Presently, images of a Lat/Long system are scarce for Mars and with good reason -

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oximity-of.png

Thankfully there is no 24 hour cycle with prime meridian, dateline, hour
divisions or any of the other timekeeping features which make Earth
timekeeping a masterpiece -

https://s22380.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...map-ALPO_A.jpg


It is tempting to just say that the Equatorial circumference of Mars
generates an equatorial speed of 889.3 km per Earth hour but then it
would not mesh with time divisions/ distances of 15 degrees/1 hour as on Earth.

Basically Mars is a clean sheet with the hour value unknown as the
integer of hours which operate with the geometry/geography of Mars go
into identifying exact locations as per a workable GPS system with the
equivalent of geostationary satellites and so on.

People have woken up to the endeavour and that in itself is an
accomplishment so while most will, of course, lean on old familiar
jargon, there is something special about creating a working system for
another planet using the masterpiece we inherited from our ancestors.



The Martian prime meridian passes through Sinus Meridiani. Hint - what does
the name suggest?


Got a prime meridian then the Martian 24 hour day will have a dateline meeting at 180 E and 180 W hence it is meant to meet timekeeping of a 24 hour Martian day -

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/X1DkiuaFCuA/maxresdefault.jpg

Then you are into calendar creation and that can't be a mongrel system for Mars but as Mar's calendar will be as unique and distinct as the Earth's calendar framework is.

Maybe you would like a 360 degree framework as currently exists on Mars it is Monday a mile West of Greenwich and Tuesday a mile East of Greenwich.

https://s22380.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...map-ALPO_A.jpg


Go back into the other thread where you can do no harm as I set aside the other thread for all objections. Of course people who lack integrity respect nothing including their own national history on clocks and longitude as Harrison knew all too well. This is different, this is a clean sheet for a planet and a complete timekeeping and geometrical framework for productive use.




  #7  
Old December 6th 18, 02:05 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 11:54:25 AM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Presently, images of a Lat/Long system are scarce for Mars and with good reason -

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oximity-of.png

Thankfully there is no 24 hour cycle with prime meridian, dateline, hour
divisions or any of the other timekeeping features which make Earth
timekeeping a masterpiece -

https://s22380.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...map-ALPO_A.jpg


It is tempting to just say that the Equatorial circumference of Mars
generates an equatorial speed of 889.3 km per Earth hour but then it
would not mesh with time divisions/ distances of 15 degrees/1 hour as on Earth.

Basically Mars is a clean sheet with the hour value unknown as the
integer of hours which operate with the geometry/geography of Mars go
into identifying exact locations as per a workable GPS system with the
equivalent of geostationary satellites and so on.

People have woken up to the endeavour and that in itself is an
accomplishment so while most will, of course, lean on old familiar
jargon, there is something special about creating a working system for
another planet using the masterpiece we inherited from our ancestors.



The Martian prime meridian passes through Sinus Meridiani. Hint - what does
the name suggest?


If you have a Prime Meridian then it is implicit that a Martian dateline exists as it does on Earth -

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/X1DkiuaFCuA/maxresdefault.jpg

For people who insist the Earth does not rotate once in 24 hours via the Lat/Long and 24 hour systems, they would find it impossible to create a unique calendar framework for Mars in determining events as Martian dates and especially using timekeeping and longitude positions as what happens on Earth..

https://s22380.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...map-ALPO_A.jpg


The 180 E and 180 W meridian away from the Prime Meridian is as necessary as the Prime Meridian itself and no different for Mars using its own standard of hours,minutes and seconds for a 24 hour Martian day.

Of course you guys have spent 20 years ignoring timekeeping and Lat/Long as the masterpiece that it is along with the calendar framework as a separate masterpiece. The chance to apply the principles to Mars is therefore denied you and that is a heavy price to pay for a late 17th century RA/Dec fiction which tried to subvert the facts contained in the Lat/Long system and rotation.



  #8  
Old December 6th 18, 09:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 6:05:47 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

If you have a Prime Meridian then it is implicit that a Martian dateline exists
as it does on Earth -


Why, yes. And Isaac Asimov even wrote a short story about it.

John Savard
  #9  
Old December 6th 18, 10:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

The International dateline smoothly meshes with the 24 hour day and the calendar framework and it is simply lovely.

So ends this topic.
  #10  
Old December 6th 18, 11:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default Lat/Long system for Mars continued

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
The International dateline smoothly meshes with the 24 hour day and the
calendar framework and it is simply lovely.

So ends this topic.


No it doesn’t. The international dateline has kinks, usually to avoid
different dates in the same country.
It’s not always on the same meridian.



 




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