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#1
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
If you guys thought the CEV was bloated, just look at this monstrosity:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...r+capsule.html The ESA/FSA Moonship consisting of ATV (service module), Columbus (orbital module) and Sojuz re-entry capsule. It seems that ESA followed "safe, simple, soon" philosophy when designing this Frankencraft . Regards, NE |
#2
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
In message
Andi Kleen wrote: New European writes: The ESA/FSA Moonship consisting of ATV (service module), Columbus (orbital module) and Sojuz re-entry capsule. It seems that ESA followed "safe, simple, soon" philosophy when designing this Frankencraft . Columbus can only be launched by the shuttle right now. I assume it would need to be a heavily modified Columbus suitable for Proton or Ariane 5? The ATV cargo section is a short Columbus. Alenia built the nodes, Columbus, PLMs and ATV sections from the same five basic units, a plain ring, a ring with 4 CBMs, a plain endcap, a CBM endcap and an endcap with Russian docking system. Three of those can be launched on an Ariane 5. I do wonder why the ATV and a Columbus though, I'd have though a stretched ATV launched empty and restocked from a PLM would have given enough room for a Moon trip, the PLM can be left in earth orbit to save weight. Anthony |
#3
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
I do wonder why the ATV and a Columbus though, I'd have though a
stretched ATV launched empty and restocked from a PLM would have given enough room for a Moon trip, the PLM can be left in earth orbit to save weight. My impression from the article was that this was just an exercise in viewgraph engineering, and that the mention of ATV and Columbus was kind of gratuitous (that is, that the decision which they are announcing is really about the capsule). I *think* this is based on the overall roadmap at http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Aurora/ESAONKTHN6D_0.html but I'm not sure - they could be different ESA programs. Are there any more descriptions of this on the web? The article is pretty brief, and I didn't find anything else (for example, when searching for "Advanced Crew Transportation System"). I do note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTS which seems to be based on the flightglobal.com article which we have been discussing. But I'm not really sure there is much of anything to this announcement other than "ESA isn't going to fund Kliper" - more on that at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper |
#4
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
Jim Kingdon wrote:
But I'm not really sure there is much of anything to this announcement other than "ESA isn't going to fund Kliper" - more on that at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper Actually, there's a bit more to this announcement: "A winged vehicle was considered too risky in cost and development terms." Prudence or timidity? Paving the way it certainly ain't. Regards, NE |
#5
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
"New European" wrote in message ... If you guys thought the CEV was bloated, just look at this monstrosity: http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...r+capsule.html The ESA/FSA Moonship consisting of ATV (service module), Columbus (orbital module) and Sojuz re-entry capsule. It seems that ESA followed "safe, simple, soon" philosophy when designing this Frankencraft . Why are the Europeans suddenly interested in a manned moonlanding when they've never even launched a man into space? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#6
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
"Widget" wrote:
Why are the Europeans suddenly interested in a manned moonlanding when they've never even launched a man into space? For the same reason that they've perennially been interested in a manned program - it's what Great Nations Do. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
#7
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
"Widget" wrote in message ... "New European" wrote in message ... If you guys thought the CEV was bloated, just look at this monstrosity: http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...r+capsule.html The ESA/FSA Moonship consisting of ATV (service module), Columbus (orbital module) and Sojuz re-entry capsule. It seems that ESA followed "safe, simple, soon" philosophy when designing this Frankencraft . Why are the Europeans suddenly interested in a manned moonlanding when they've never even launched a man into space? ESA has *always* produced viewgraphs for manned spacecraft. Remember Hermes? Currently, the ATV and Columbus are the closest things they've got to such a craft, so it's no surprise to find a new viewgraph with an ATV derived module and a Columbus derived module attached to a re-entry vehicle. Viewgraphs don't mean that hardware will follow. After all, NASA is the king of manned spacecraft viewgraphs, and look how precious few viewgraphs actually produce flying hardware. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#8
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Kliper is dead, long live Moonship.
The ATV cargo section is a short Columbus. Alenia built the nodes, Columbus, PLMs and ATV sections from the same five basic units, a plain ring, a ring with 4 CBMs, a plain endcap, a CBM endcap and an endcap with Russian docking system. Three of those can be launched on an Ariane 5. I do wonder why the ATV and a Columbus though, I'd have though a stretched ATV launched empty and restocked from a PLM would have given enough room for a Moon trip, the PLM can be left in earth orbit to save weight. What I find hard to believe is that the article says that "it could be operational by 2014...". If they mean a first flight into Earth orbit, maybe...or not. Consider the fact that they need to solicit funding from each of their member nations to make this happen. It makes the USA's funding cycle look robust and stable. |
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