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"When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 9th 12, 03:26 AM posted to sci.space.history
Dr.Colon Oscopy
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Posts: 55
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

Never saw this before , never even heard of it, am I the last to
know????.........doc http://www.retronaut.co/2011/07/in-e...moon-disaster/
  #2  
Old January 9th 12, 02:31 PM posted to sci.space.history
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's notetoHaldeman

Dr.Colon Oscopy wrote:
Never saw this before , never even heard of it, am I the last to
know????.........doc http://www.retronaut.co/2011/07/in-e...moon-disaster/


This was kicked around here in the past. Let me see if I can find some links...

A quick search of only sci.space.history using:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...afire&start=0&


Yields the oldest post dated Jul 11, 1999

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...235825accbea83


Grim stuff,

Dave
  #3  
Old January 10th 12, 04:21 AM posted to sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

"Dr.Colon Oscopy" wrote in message
...

Never saw this before , never even heard of it, am I the last to
know????.........doc
http://www.retronaut.co/2011/07/in-e...moon-disaster/



Don't know about the last but it is as others mentioned, somewhat old hat.

It's also rather common. There's a similar letter kicking around in the
event that the Normandy Invasion had been repulsed.


--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

  #4  
Old January 10th 12, 03:48 PM posted to sci.space.history
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

On Jan 9, 10:21*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"Dr.Colon Oscopy" *wrote in message

...



Never saw this before , never even heard of it, am I the last to
know????.........doc
http://www.retronaut.co/2011/07/in-e...moon-disaster/


Don't know about the last but it is as others mentioned, somewhat old hat..

It's also rather common. *There's a similar letter kicking around in the
event that the Normandy Invasion had been repulsed.

--
Greg D. Moore * President * * * * * * * * * Green Mountain Softwarehttp://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans:http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


and no doubt one for the loss of ISS and its crew
  #5  
Old January 10th 12, 04:20 PM posted to sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 790
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

On Jan 9, 10:21 pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"Dr.Colon Oscopy" wrote in message

...



Never saw this before , never even heard of it, am I the last to
know????.........doc
http://www.retronaut.co/2011/07/in-e...moon-disaster/


Don't know about the last but it is as others mentioned, somewhat old
hat.

It's also rather common. There's a similar letter kicking around in the
event that the Normandy Invasion had been repulsed.

--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain
Softwarehttp://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans:http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


and no doubt one for the loss of ISS and its crew


Actually very doubtful they have one prepared for that any more than the
President (or other top official) has one prepared for an ongoing operation
that isn't extremely visible to the public.







--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

  #6  
Old January 10th 12, 07:12 PM posted to sci.space.history
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Posts: 1,388
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

In article ,
says...

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

and no doubt one for the loss of ISS and its crew


Actually very doubtful they have one prepared for that any more than the
President (or other top official) has one prepared for an ongoing operation
that isn't extremely visible to the public.


Agreed. Despite Bob's "gut", the risk to astronauts actually on ISS is
far less than the risk to Armstrong and Aldrin in the LEM during Apollo
11. In fact, I'd say that history has shown that launch and reentry of
the ferry vehicle to and from ISS (shuttle, Soyuz, and etc.) is far more
hazardous than being on ISS itself.

Of course the aircraft analog of this is that very few people have died
while flying in aircraft. They mostly die when the plane crashes into
the ground. Yes, I know it's sick, but there is more than a bit of
truth to it.

That's why if you actually read the memo in the article, "In event of
Moon Disaster", you'll see that what they were really covering were the
possibilities that the astronauts would crash on landing, become
stranded on the surface, or crash trying to take off and rendezvous with
the CSM. In all those cases, their remains would "stay on the moon to
rest in peace". The boilerplate speech really didn't cover the
possibility that they might all die in the CSM.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #7  
Old January 11th 12, 12:48 AM posted to sci.space.history
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

On Jan 10, 1:12*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...



"bob haller" *wrote in message
....


and no doubt one for the loss of ISS and its crew


Actually very doubtful they have one prepared for that any more than the
President (or other top official) has one prepared for an ongoing operation
that isn't extremely visible to the public.


Agreed. *Despite Bob's "gut", the risk to astronauts actually on ISS is
far less than the risk to Armstrong and Aldrin in the LEM during Apollo
11. *In fact, I'd say that history has shown that launch and reentry of
the ferry vehicle to and from ISS (shuttle, Soyuz, and etc.) is far more
hazardous than being on ISS itself.

Of course the aircraft analog of this is that very few people have died
while flying in aircraft. *They mostly die when the plane crashes into
the ground. *Yes, I know it's sick, but there is more than a bit of
truth to it.

That's why if you actually read the memo in the article, "In event of
Moon Disaster", you'll see that what they were really covering were the
possibilities that the astronauts would crash on landing, become
stranded on the surface, or crash trying to take off and rendezvous with
the CSM. *In all those cases, their remains would "stay on the moon to
rest in peace". *The boilerplate speech really didn't cover the
possibility that they might all die in the CSM.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker


a bit of errant debris ttoo small to track could at any time take out
ISS, or any number of technical issues.

jeffs statement is like saying with authority shuttle re entry is safe
because we have never lost a orbiter...
  #8  
Old January 11th 12, 12:49 AM posted to sci.space.history
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 06:48:38 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

and no doubt one for the loss of ISS and its crew


There might be, it wouldn't surprise me. But there wasn't a prepared
speech for Reagan before Challenger or Bush before Columbia.

Brian
  #9  
Old January 11th 12, 02:51 PM posted to sci.space.history
Jeff Findley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,388
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

In article d0ea7d5b-bc3f-421d-9eca-
, says...

On Jan 10, 1:12*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...



"bob haller" *wrote in message
...


and no doubt one for the loss of ISS and its crew


Actually very doubtful they have one prepared for that any more than the
President (or other top official) has one prepared for an ongoing operation
that isn't extremely visible to the public.


Agreed. *Despite Bob's "gut", the risk to astronauts actually on ISS is
far less than the risk to Armstrong and Aldrin in the LEM during Apollo
11. *In fact, I'd say that history has shown that launch and reentry of
the ferry vehicle to and from ISS (shuttle, Soyuz, and etc.) is far more
hazardous than being on ISS itself.

Of course the aircraft analog of this is that very few people have died
while flying in aircraft. *They mostly die when the plane crashes into
the ground. *Yes, I know it's sick, but there is more than a bit of
truth to it.

That's why if you actually read the memo in the article, "In event of
Moon Disaster", you'll see that what they were really covering were the
possibilities that the astronauts would crash on landing, become
stranded on the surface, or crash trying to take off and rendezvous with
the CSM. *In all those cases, their remains would "stay on the moon to
rest in peace". *The boilerplate speech really didn't cover the
possibility that they might all die in the CSM.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker


a bit of errant debris ttoo small to track could at any time take out
ISS,


I know you're not well versed in the field of space debris. Where is
your cite that "a bit of errant debris too small to track" is actually
capable of "taking out ISS"? I think it's a bold assertion to say that
if it's "too small to track" that it has enough energy to "take out
ISS". Since it's your assertion, please back it up.

or any number of technical issues.


Unlikely given the amount of redundancy built into ISS. Not only are
the critical systems duplicated, but in most cases they're duplicated
with completely different hardware designs (US versus Russian) and are
contained in completely different modules. ISS could lose entire
modules or entire systems and still operate well enough to keeep the
crew alive for quite some time.

jeffs statement is like saying with authority shuttle re entry is safe
because we have never lost a orbiter...


I stated that launch and entry have been historically shown to be the
most dangerous parts of spaceflight. That's a fact. Yes, there is
still the possibility of deaths during other parts of the flight.

Please note that in the case of Columbia, the damage to the TPS happened
during launch when a piece of ET foam slammed into the wing leading edge
RCC and literally ripped a hole in it. Note that even with that (rather
shocking) damage, Columbia still made it into orbit and successfully
completed the orbital part of the mission. It was only while attempting
reentry and landing that the damage caused Columbia to break up.

Even the Columbia case shows that compared to launch, reentry, and
landing, orbiting the earth in LEO is a much less dangerous environment.
That was my point all along.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #10  
Old January 15th 12, 04:19 PM posted to sci.space.history
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default "When Aldrin and Armstrong were deemed lost", Safire's noteto Haldeman

On Jan 14, 7:33*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:

a bit of errant debris ttoo small to track could at any time take out
ISS, or any number of technical issues.


And you could be struck by a meteor at any time. *Do you have a press
release ready?

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn


Well the ISS isnt protected by atmosphere........

making a debris hit much more likely
 




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