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"Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 11th 07, 09:16 AM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
(David P.)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/sc...ce/06orbi.html

Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat

By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: February 6, 2007

For decades, space experts have worried that a speeding bit of
orbital debris might one day smash a large spacecraft into
hundreds of pieces and start a chain reaction, a slow cascade of
collisions that would expand for centuries, spreading chaos
through the heavens.

In the last decade or so, as scientists came to agree that the
number of objects in orbit had surpassed a critical mass -
or, in their terms, the critical spatial density, the point at which
a chain reaction becomes inevitable - they grew more anxious.

Early this year, after a half-century of growth, the federal list of
detectable objects (four inches wide or larger) reached 10,000,
including dead satellites, spent rocket stages, a camera, a hand
tool and junkyards of whirling debris left over from chance
explosions and destructive tests.

Now, experts say, China's test on Jan. 11 of an antisatellite
rocket that shattered an old satellite into hundreds of large
fragments means the chain reaction will most likely start sooner.
If their predictions are right, the cascade could put billions of
dollars' worth of advanced satellites at risk and eventually threaten
to limit humanity's reach for the stars.

Federal and private experts say that early estimates of 800 pieces
of detectable debris from the shattering of the satellite will grow to
nearly 1,000 as observations continue by tracking radars and
space cameras. At either number, it is the worst such episode
in space history.

Today, next year or next decade, some piece of whirling debris
will start the cascade, experts say.

"It's inevitable," said Nicholas L. Johnson, chief scientist for
orbital debris at the National Aeronautics and Space Admin-
istration. "A significant piece of debris will run into an old
rocket body, and that will create more debris. It's a bad situation."

Geoffrey E. Forden, an arms expert at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology who is analyzing the Chinese satellite
debris, said China perhaps failed to realize the magnitude
of the test's indirect hazards.

Dr. Forden suggested that Chinese engineers might have
understood the risks but failed to communicate them. In China,
he said, "the decision process is still so opaque that maybe
they didn't know who to talk to. Maybe you have a disconnect
between the engineers and the people who think about policy."

China, experts note, has 39 satellites of its own - many of
them now facing a heightened risk of destruction.

Politically, the situation is delicate. In recent years China has
played a growing international role in fighting the proliferation
of space junk. In 2002, for instance, it joined with other space-
faring nations to suggest voluntary guidelines for debris control.

In April, Beijing is to play host to the annual meeting of the
advocacy group, known as the Inter-Agency Space Debris
Coordination Committee. Donald J. Kessler, a former head
of the orbital debris program at NASA and a pioneer analyst
of the space threat, said Chinese officials at the forum would
probably feel "some embarrassment."

Mr. Kessler said Western analysts agreed that China's new
satellite fragments would speed the chain reaction's onset.
"If the Chinese didn't do the test, it would still happen," he said.
"It just wouldn't happen as quickly."

Last week in Beijing, a foreign ministry spokeswoman failed
to respond directly to a debris question. Asked if the satellite's
remains would threaten other spacecraft, she asserted that
China's policy was to keep space free of weapons.

"We are ready to strengthen international cooperation in this
regard," the spokeswoman, Jiang Yu, told reporters.

Cascade warnings began as early as 1978. Mr. Kessler and
his NASA colleague, Burton G. Cour-Palais, wrote in The
Journal of Geophysical Research that speeding junk that formed
more junk would produce "an exponential increase in the number
of objects with time, creating a belt of debris around the Earth."

During the cold war, Moscow and Washington generally ignored
the danger and, from 1968 to 1986, conducted more than 20
tests of antisatellite arms that created clouds of jagged scraps.
Often, they did so at low altitudes from which the resulting debris
soon plunged earthward. Still, the number of objects grew as
more nations launched rockets and satellites into orbit.

In 1995, as the count passed 8,000, the National Academy of
Sciences warned in a thick report that some crowded orbits
appeared to have already reached the "critical density" needed
to sustain a chain reaction.

A year later, apprehension rose as the fuel tank of an abandoned
American rocket engine exploded, breaking the craft into 713
detectable fragments - until now, the record.

Amid such developments, space experts identified the first
collisions that threatened to start a chain reaction, putting
analysts increasingly on edge.

On Jan. 17, 2005, for instance, a piece of speeding debris from
an exploded Chinese rocket collided with a derelict American
rocket body that had been shot into space 31 years earlier.
Warily, investigators searched though orbital neighborhoods but
found to their relief that the crackup had produced only four
pieces of detectable debris.

A year later, Mr. Johnson, the chief scientist for NASA's orbital
debris program, and his colleague J. -C. Liou, published an
article in the journal Science that detailed the growing threat.
They said orbits were now so cluttered that the chain reaction
was sure to start even if spacefaring nations refrained from
launching any more spacecraft.

"The environment is unstable," they wrote, "and collisions will
become the most dominant debris-generating mechanism."

It was in this atmosphere of rising tension that China last month
fired a rocket into space that shattered an old weather satellite
- its first successful test of an antisatellite weapon.

David C. Wright, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned
Scientists, a private group in Cambridge, Mass., calculated
that the old satellite had broken into 1,000 fragments four inches
wide or larger, and millions of smaller ones.

Federal sky-watchers who catalogue objects in the Earth orbit
work slowly and deliberately. As of yesterday, they publicly
listed 647 detectable pieces of the satellite but were said to
be tracking hundreds more.

The breakup was dangerous because the satellite's orbit was
relatively high, some 530 miles up. That means the debris will
remain in space for tens, thousands or even millions of years.

Mr. Kessler, the former NASA official, now a private consultant
in Asheville, N.C., said China might have chosen a relatively
high target to avoid directly threatening the International Space
Station and its astronaut crew, which orbit at a height of about
220 miles.

"Maybe the choice was to endanger the station in the short term
or to cause a long-term problem," he said. "Maybe that forced
them to raise the orbit."

Even so, the paths of the speeding Chinese debris, following
the laws of physics and of celestial mechanics, expanded in
many directions, including upward and downward. As of last
week, outliers from the central cloud stretched from roughly
100 miles to more than 2,000 miles above the Earth.

A solution to the cascade threat exists but is costly. In his
Science paper and in recent interviews, Mr. Johnson of NASA
argued that the only sure answer was environmental remediation,
including the removal of existing large objects from orbit.

Robots might install rocket engines to send dead spacecraft
careering back into the atmosphere, or ground-based lasers
might be used to zap debris.

The bad news, Mr. Johnson said in his paper, is that "for the
near term, no single remediation technique appears to be both
technically feasible and economically viable."

If nothing is done, a kind of orbital crisis might ensue that is
known as the Kessler Syndrome, after Mr. Kessler. A staple of
science fiction, it holds that the space around Earth becomes
so riddled with junk that launchings are almost impossible.
Vehicles that entered space would quickly be destroyed.

In an interview, Mr. Kessler called the worst-case scenario an
exaggeration. "It's been overdone," he said of the syndrome.

Still, he warned of an economic barrier to space exploration
that could arise. To fight debris, he said, designers will have
to give spacecraft more and more shielding, struggling to
protect the craft from destruction and making them heavier
and more costly in the process.

At some point, he said, perhaps centuries from now, the
costs will outweigh the benefits.

"It gets more and more expensive," he said. "Sooner or later
it gets too expensive to do business in space."
..
..
--

  #2  
Old February 11th 07, 10:26 AM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Tom Potter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times


"(David P.)" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/sc...ce/06orbi.html

Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat

By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: February 6, 2007

For decades, space experts have worried that a speeding bit of
orbital debris might one day smash a large spacecraft into
hundreds of pieces and start a chain reaction, a slow cascade of
collisions that would expand for centuries, spreading chaos
through the heavens.

In the last decade or so, as scientists came to agree that the
number of objects in orbit had surpassed a critical mass -
or, in their terms, the critical spatial density, the point at which
a chain reaction becomes inevitable - they grew more anxious.

Early this year, after a half-century of growth, the federal list of
detectable objects (four inches wide or larger) reached 10,000,
including dead satellites, spent rocket stages, a camera, a hand
tool and junkyards of whirling debris left over from chance
explosions and destructive tests.

Now, experts say, China's test on Jan. 11 of an antisatellite
rocket that shattered an old satellite into hundreds of large
fragments means the chain reaction will most likely start sooner.
If their predictions are right, the cascade could put billions of
dollars' worth of advanced satellites at risk and eventually threaten
to limit humanity's reach for the stars.

Federal and private experts say that early estimates of 800 pieces
of detectable debris from the shattering of the satellite will grow to
nearly 1,000 as observations continue by tracking radars and
space cameras. At either number, it is the worst such episode
in space history.

Today, next year or next decade, some piece of whirling debris
will start the cascade, experts say.

"It's inevitable," said Nicholas L. Johnson, chief scientist for
orbital debris at the National Aeronautics and Space Admin-
istration. "A significant piece of debris will run into an old
rocket body, and that will create more debris. It's a bad situation."

Geoffrey E. Forden, an arms expert at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology who is analyzing the Chinese satellite
debris, said China perhaps failed to realize the magnitude
of the test's indirect hazards.

Dr. Forden suggested that Chinese engineers might have
understood the risks but failed to communicate them. In China,
he said, "the decision process is still so opaque that maybe
they didn't know who to talk to. Maybe you have a disconnect
between the engineers and the people who think about policy."

China, experts note, has 39 satellites of its own - many of
them now facing a heightened risk of destruction.

Politically, the situation is delicate. In recent years China has
played a growing international role in fighting the proliferation
of space junk. In 2002, for instance, it joined with other space-
faring nations to suggest voluntary guidelines for debris control.

In April, Beijing is to play host to the annual meeting of the
advocacy group, known as the Inter-Agency Space Debris
Coordination Committee. Donald J. Kessler, a former head
of the orbital debris program at NASA and a pioneer analyst
of the space threat, said Chinese officials at the forum would
probably feel "some embarrassment."

Mr. Kessler said Western analysts agreed that China's new
satellite fragments would speed the chain reaction's onset.
"If the Chinese didn't do the test, it would still happen," he said.
"It just wouldn't happen as quickly."

Last week in Beijing, a foreign ministry spokeswoman failed
to respond directly to a debris question. Asked if the satellite's
remains would threaten other spacecraft, she asserted that
China's policy was to keep space free of weapons.

"We are ready to strengthen international cooperation in this
regard," the spokeswoman, Jiang Yu, told reporters.

Cascade warnings began as early as 1978. Mr. Kessler and
his NASA colleague, Burton G. Cour-Palais, wrote in The
Journal of Geophysical Research that speeding junk that formed
more junk would produce "an exponential increase in the number
of objects with time, creating a belt of debris around the Earth."

During the cold war, Moscow and Washington generally ignored
the danger and, from 1968 to 1986, conducted more than 20
tests of antisatellite arms that created clouds of jagged scraps.
Often, they did so at low altitudes from which the resulting debris
soon plunged earthward. Still, the number of objects grew as
more nations launched rockets and satellites into orbit.

In 1995, as the count passed 8,000, the National Academy of
Sciences warned in a thick report that some crowded orbits
appeared to have already reached the "critical density" needed
to sustain a chain reaction.

A year later, apprehension rose as the fuel tank of an abandoned
American rocket engine exploded, breaking the craft into 713
detectable fragments - until now, the record.

Amid such developments, space experts identified the first
collisions that threatened to start a chain reaction, putting
analysts increasingly on edge.

On Jan. 17, 2005, for instance, a piece of speeding debris from
an exploded Chinese rocket collided with a derelict American
rocket body that had been shot into space 31 years earlier.
Warily, investigators searched though orbital neighborhoods but
found to their relief that the crackup had produced only four
pieces of detectable debris.

A year later, Mr. Johnson, the chief scientist for NASA's orbital
debris program, and his colleague J. -C. Liou, published an
article in the journal Science that detailed the growing threat.
They said orbits were now so cluttered that the chain reaction
was sure to start even if spacefaring nations refrained from
launching any more spacecraft.

"The environment is unstable," they wrote, "and collisions will
become the most dominant debris-generating mechanism."

It was in this atmosphere of rising tension that China last month
fired a rocket into space that shattered an old weather satellite
- its first successful test of an antisatellite weapon.

David C. Wright, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned
Scientists, a private group in Cambridge, Mass., calculated
that the old satellite had broken into 1,000 fragments four inches
wide or larger, and millions of smaller ones.

Federal sky-watchers who catalogue objects in the Earth orbit
work slowly and deliberately. As of yesterday, they publicly
listed 647 detectable pieces of the satellite but were said to
be tracking hundreds more.

The breakup was dangerous because the satellite's orbit was
relatively high, some 530 miles up. That means the debris will
remain in space for tens, thousands or even millions of years.

Mr. Kessler, the former NASA official, now a private consultant
in Asheville, N.C., said China might have chosen a relatively
high target to avoid directly threatening the International Space
Station and its astronaut crew, which orbit at a height of about
220 miles.

"Maybe the choice was to endanger the station in the short term
or to cause a long-term problem," he said. "Maybe that forced
them to raise the orbit."

Even so, the paths of the speeding Chinese debris, following
the laws of physics and of celestial mechanics, expanded in
many directions, including upward and downward. As of last
week, outliers from the central cloud stretched from roughly
100 miles to more than 2,000 miles above the Earth.

A solution to the cascade threat exists but is costly. In his
Science paper and in recent interviews, Mr. Johnson of NASA
argued that the only sure answer was environmental remediation,
including the removal of existing large objects from orbit.

Robots might install rocket engines to send dead spacecraft
careering back into the atmosphere, or ground-based lasers
might be used to zap debris.

The bad news, Mr. Johnson said in his paper, is that "for the
near term, no single remediation technique appears to be both
technically feasible and economically viable."

If nothing is done, a kind of orbital crisis might ensue that is
known as the Kessler Syndrome, after Mr. Kessler. A staple of
science fiction, it holds that the space around Earth becomes
so riddled with junk that launchings are almost impossible.
Vehicles that entered space would quickly be destroyed.

In an interview, Mr. Kessler called the worst-case scenario an
exaggeration. "It's been overdone," he said of the syndrome.

Still, he warned of an economic barrier to space exploration
that could arise. To fight debris, he said, designers will have
to give spacecraft more and more shielding, struggling to
protect the craft from destruction and making them heavier
and more costly in the process.

At some point, he said, perhaps centuries from now, the
costs will outweigh the benefits.

"It gets more and more expensive," he said. "Sooner or later
it gets too expensive to do business in space."


When insane bullies like George Bush get into office,
and saber rattle because they think they have military superiority
because of space technology, such as GPS oriented weapons,
and battle field control,

you can bet that it plants the seed for some nation
to explode an atomic or fragment weapon in space
to level the playing field.

I dare say that some nation,
perhaps Russia, China, or Iran
(Or even France, Germany, Argentina, etc.)
will decide to level the playing field
in the next twenty years,
and render the use of space for military
and other purposes, useless.

As can be seen from history,
after Rome imposed on other peoples
for a long time, and were discovered to be
a paper tiger, the other nations started
to detach from Rome, build defenses,
and rip up the Roman roads and forts.

Bush has set the same forces in motion.

No nation will allow a bully nation to dominate the world
with space military technology,
when it can be easily eliminated.

If space is neutralized,
can you imagine an insane leader like Bush
starting a land war against Russia, China, Iran, etc???

The entire world respected and trusted America,
and looked to America for leadership
in space, communications, business, standards, diplomacy, etc.
and Bush ****ed it all away
and set the stage for the second Dark Age.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #3  
Old February 11th 07, 02:48 PM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Eric Swanson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

In article ,
says...


"(David P.)" wrote in message
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/sc...ce/06orbi.html

Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat

By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: February 6, 2007

For decades, space experts have worried that a speeding bit of
orbital debris might one day smash a large spacecraft into
hundreds of pieces and start a chain reaction, a slow cascade of
collisions that would expand for centuries, spreading chaos
through the heavens.

In the last decade or so, as scientists came to agree that the
number of objects in orbit had surpassed a critical mass -
or, in their terms, the critical spatial density, the point at which
a chain reaction becomes inevitable - they grew more anxious.


[cut]

"It gets more and more expensive," he said. "Sooner or later
it gets too expensive to do business in space."


When insane bullies like George Bush get into office,
and saber rattle because they think they have military superiority
because of space technology, such as GPS oriented weapons,
and battle field control,

you can bet that it plants the seed for some nation
to explode an atomic or fragment weapon in space
to level the playing field.


For every offense, there is a defense, eventually. The Islamists
have learned how to kill M1 tanks, according to recent reports.

I dare say that some nation,
perhaps Russia, China, or Iran
(Or even France, Germany, Argentina, etc.)
will decide to level the playing field
in the next twenty years,
and render the use of space for military
and other purposes, useless.

As can be seen from history,
after Rome imposed on other peoples
for a long time, and were discovered to be
a paper tiger, the other nations started
to detach from Rome, build defenses,
and rip up the Roman roads and forts.

Bush has set the same forces in motion.


You mean V.P Cheney, don't you?

No nation will allow a bully nation to dominate the world
with space military technology,
when it can be easily eliminated.

If space is neutralized,
can you imagine an insane leader like Bush
starting a land war against Russia, China, Iran, etc???


Iran is only 75 million people, last I heard. Without space, we still
own the skys, assuming the latest Russian anti-aircraft system just
delivered could be compromised. That's probably part of the reason
the Russians let them have it. The system would do them no good until
it's tested in actual combat. Maybe the Russians see Bush as headed
for a fight with the Iranians, thus, they get a real world test without
the risk of being blown away themselves.

The entire world respected and trusted America,
and looked to America for leadership
in space, communications, business, standards, diplomacy, etc.
and Bush ****ed it all away
and set the stage for the second Dark Age.


Maybe that's the plan. Back to the "future", as they say. Torture is
so much "fun". It's better than playing a video game. Afterwards, you
can burn them at the stake. Gotta love those religious fundamentalists.

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------

  #4  
Old February 12th 07, 04:19 AM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Tom Potter[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

On Feb 11, 9:48 pm, (Eric Swanson) wrote:
In article ,
says...







"(David P.)" wrote in message
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/sc...ce/06orbi.html


Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat


By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: February 6, 2007


For decades, space experts have worried that a speeding bit of
orbital debris might one day smash a large spacecraft into
hundreds of pieces and start a chain reaction, a slow cascade of
collisions that would expand for centuries, spreading chaos
through the heavens.


In the last decade or so, as scientists came to agree that the
number of objects in orbit had surpassed a critical mass -
or, in their terms, the critical spatial density, the point at which
a chain reaction becomes inevitable - they grew more anxious.


[cut]

"It gets more and more expensive," he said. "Sooner or later
it gets too expensive to do business in space."


When insane bullies like George Bush get into office,
and saber rattle because they think they have military superiority
because of space technology, such as GPS oriented weapons,
and battle field control,


you can bet that it plants the seed for some nation
to explode an atomic or fragment weapon in space
to level the playing field.


For every offense, there is a defense, eventually. The Islamists
have learned how to kill M1 tanks, according to recent reports.





I dare say that some nation,
perhaps Russia, China, or Iran
(Or even France, Germany, Argentina, etc.)
will decide to level the playing field
in the next twenty years,
and render the use of space for military
and other purposes, useless.


As can be seen from history,
after Rome imposed on other peoples
for a long time, and were discovered to be
a paper tiger, the other nations started
to detach from Rome, build defenses,
and rip up the Roman roads and forts.


Bush has set the same forces in motion.


You mean V.P Cheney, don't you?

No nation will allow a bully nation to dominate the world
with space military technology,
when it can be easily eliminated.


If space is neutralized,
can you imagine an insane leader like Bush
starting a land war against Russia, China, Iran, etc???


Iran is only 75 million people, last I heard. Without space, we still
own the skys, assuming the latest Russian anti-aircraft system just
delivered could be compromised. That's probably part of the reason
the Russians let them have it. The system would do them no good until
it's tested in actual combat. Maybe the Russians see Bush as headed
for a fight with the Iranians, thus, they get a real world test without
the risk of being blown away themselves.


Eric Swanson makes a good point when he points out
that Iran has a population of only 75 million people.

It is interesting to see that Iraq has a population of only 26
million,
and America is having no problems in kicking their ass.

Of course, if some nation takes out the GPS and spy satellite systems
by exploding fragments in space, America would have a little trouble
waging long distant land wars in North Korea, Iran, Russia, China,
Argentina, etc. with limited supplies of energy and man power.

The bottom line is
the best policy is to respect the rights and cultures of ALL people,
and build bridges rather than walls and military systems.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

  #5  
Old February 12th 07, 11:42 AM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Terryc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

Tom Potter wrote:


It is interesting to see that Iraq has a population of only 26
million,
and America is having no problems in kicking their ass.


oooh, subtle.


Of course, if some nation takes out the GPS and spy satellite systems
by exploding fragments in space, America would have a little trouble
waging long distant land wars in North Korea, Iran, Russia, China,
Argentina, etc. with limited supplies of energy and man power.


Cruel, just cruel.
  #6  
Old February 14th 07, 11:32 PM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
VistaJustWorks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times


"Tom Potter" wrote
Eric Swanson makes a good point when he points out
that Iran has a population of only 75 million people.
It is interesting to see that Iraq has a population of only 26
million, and America is having no problems in kicking their ass.


Really? In Iraq, Most AmeriKKKans are cowering behind the fortified
concrete fences of the green zone.

And of course, Iran isn't 75 million, it's Iran and Iraq at 100 million,
and very active opposition all over the world.

25 million for Iraq = $300 billion/year.
100 million for Iraq/Iran = 1.2 trillion/year.

5 years = $20 trillion in U.S. debt.

Please Invade Iran.



  #7  
Old February 15th 07, 06:32 PM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Gunner[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:32:25 -0500, "VistaJustWorks"
wrote:


"Tom Potter" wrote
Eric Swanson makes a good point when he points out
that Iran has a population of only 75 million people.
It is interesting to see that Iraq has a population of only 26
million, and America is having no problems in kicking their ass.


Really? In Iraq, Most AmeriKKKans are cowering behind the fortified
concrete fences of the green zone.


Really? Is that why so many are getting killed outside of the green
zone?


And of course, Iran isn't 75 million, it's Iran and Iraq at 100 million,
and very active opposition all over the world.

25 million for Iraq = $300 billion/year.
100 million for Iraq/Iran = 1.2 trillion/year.

5 years = $20 trillion in U.S. debt.

Please Invade Iran.


No need to invade Iran. It will be undergoing a popular revolution
within a year or two, where the people rise up and kill the clerics.

Gunner




"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide"
- James Burnham
  #8  
Old February 14th 07, 11:28 PM posted to talk.bizarre,sci.environment,sci.physics,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
VistaJustWorks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times


An al Qaida-linked terror group has urged Muslim militants to attack oil
facilities all over the world, including Canada, Mexico and Venezuela, to
stop the flow of oil to the US.

Al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula said in its monthly magazine posted on an
Islamic website that "cutting oil supplies to the United States, or at least
curtailing it, would contribute to the ending of the American occupation of
Iraq and Afghanistan."


  #9  
Old February 11th 07, 06:03 PM posted to talk.bizarre,misc.misc,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Kent Paul Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 225
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

"Tom Potter" wrote:
"(David P.)" wrote in message


Now, experts say, China's test on Jan. 11 of an
antisatellite rocket that shattered an old
satellite into hundreds of large fragments means
the chain reaction will most likely start sooner.


Oh, joy. There's more totally off-topic shovelware
from talk.bizarre's very own one man plague of kook,
Pollutka.

I suppose it's here to go along with Pollutka's
totally off-topic anagram spam.

That makes up the ham and eggs of a brain-burned
drunk's habitual addicted behavior of making a
nuisance of himself because that's all he has left
to be, all meaning to his life otherwise lost down a
bottle long, long ago.

When insane bullies like George Bush get into
office, and saber rattle because they think they
have military superiority because of space
technology, such as GPS oriented weapons, and
battle field control, you can bet that it plants
the seed for some nation to explode an atomic or
fragment weapon in space to level the playing
field.


It's so *nice* that Usenet exists so that insane
people like, which one is this, oh yes, "Tom
Potter", have a chance to blame the ill considered
actions of one party on some utterly unrelated
second party, as a way to express their undying
hatred for that second party.

Were it not for Usenet, the froth "Tom Potter" has
building up inside would remain unvented, and an
explosion would be the inevitable result, spraying
ineptitude and stupidity everywhere.

One need only look at that signature full of links
that "Tom Potter" uses constantly, to recognize one
sure sign of a full gonzo Usenet kook.

Oh, well, nil novi sub soli. They'll be a new Usenet
kook, or an old one revenant, here tomorrow too.

HTH

xanthian.


  #10  
Old February 12th 07, 04:01 AM posted to talk.bizarre,misc.misc,misc.survivalism,sci.astro
Tom Potter[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default "Orbiting Junk, Once a Nuisance, Is Now a Threat" - NY Times

On Feb 12, 1:03 am, "Kent Paul Dolan" wrote:
"Tom Potter" wrote:
"(David P.)" wrote in message
Now, experts say, China's test on Jan. 11 of an
antisatellite rocket that shattered an old
satellite into hundreds of large fragments means
the chain reaction will most likely start sooner.


Oh, joy. There's more totally off-topic shovelware
from talk.bizarre's very own one man plague of kook,
Pollutka.

I suppose it's here to go along with Pollutka's
totally off-topic anagram spam.

That makes up the ham and eggs of a brain-burned
drunk's habitual addicted behavior of making a
nuisance of himself because that's all he has left
to be, all meaning to his life otherwise lost down a
bottle long, long ago.

When insane bullies like George Bush get into
office, and saber rattle because they think they
have military superiority because of space
technology, such as GPS oriented weapons, and
battle field control, you can bet that it plants
the seed for some nation to explode an atomic or
fragment weapon in space to level the playing
field.


It's so *nice* that Usenet exists so that insane
people like, which one is this, oh yes, "TomPotter", have a chance to blame the ill considered
actions of one party on some utterly unrelated
second party, as a way to express their undying
hatred for that second party.

Were it not for Usenet, the froth "Tom Potter" has
building up inside would remain unvented, and an
explosion would be the inevitable result, spraying
ineptitude and stupidity everywhere.

One need only look at that signature full of links
that "Tom Potter" uses constantly, to recognize one
sure sign of a full gonzo Usenet kook.

Oh, well, nil novi sub soli. They'll be a new Usenet
kook, or an old one revenant, here tomorrow too.

HTH

xanthian.


I am pleased to see that "Kent Paul Dolan"
continues to be a faithful reader of my posts,
and that my posts continue to irritate him.

As my Pappy used to say:
"You get better information from the horse's mouth
than you do from a horse's ass."

If anyone thinks that I, rather than Bush is the issue,
and they want to know about me and my thoughts,
I suggest that they read my posts, web sites and blogs,

On the other hand,
if anyone prefers what comes out of the south end of
a north bound horse, they should read the posts of
"Kent Paul Dolan".

I dare say that "Kent Paul Dolan"
tells more about himself than he does about me,
when he froths about my posts,
and tries to make me the issue.

As my Pappy also used to say:
"A stuck pig squeals."

No doubt I stick "Kent Paul Dolan"
pretty hard with my incisive posts.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
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http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

 




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