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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams of Moon Rocks!
"Totorkon" wrote in message ... I don't see any evidence of broad public support. The public hasn't been given a chance to have a say on the matter. But they have spoken on going back to the moon, and it's rather negative. And being a Texas oilman, it seems rather obvious why Bush would want the entire concept of SSP to just go away. Have you heard any senior NASA official even mention the word in the last seven years? I think the term 'banished' best fits current policy on SPS. When I first read about SPSs, the comparative limitations of terrestrial solar power stood out. It requires storage, heliostats, two to three times the area and PV modules and material structure to resist wind and gravity. That was back when the aerospace giants and SPS enthusiasts believed the cost to leo would be around $25/lb. Considering virtually NO money has been spent of SSP research, and yet some are already presenting concepts where directly solar pumped lasers replace microwaves, and rectenna sizes as small as three meters, about the size of a car. If some real research money were dedicated who knows what advances might happen? Switching to SSP means NASA would have to spend all that moon-money on low cost to orbit. Does the new hardware give even a rat's-ass about low cost to orbit? The best that I hope for...... That sentiment is NASA's middle name these days. Unless the folks inside NASA grow a backbone, and start ADVISING the White House, instead of just following the party line, then we'll have to endure another wasted generation or two of half-ass goals and half-ass funding. I mean how much have we really accomplished since Apollo? I don't see any reason why the next twenty or thirty years will be any different given the current goal. s |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams ofMoon Rocks!
Richard Casady wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 17:40:51 -0400, "Scott Hedrick" wrote: "Lloyd" wrote in message ... What happened to Bush's promise in 2000 to use his connections with the Saudis to keep oil prices down? It's *working*. The demand has skyrocketed, particularly because of China. We should have seen these prices years ago. Yes, China. I wish the US didn't do business with them: they don't like us and the leadership are scum. I think China has quite a bit of coal. They do have a place with a seam of coal three hundred feet thick. If they have the coal, they can get by without oil if they have to. As can the US, we have vast quantities of the coal and a fair ammount of oil. Canada has vast ammounts of tar sands. I believe they are developing them as fast as they can. They hired all of the available trained labor. They will sell us oil if we have the dough. We would rather give them the money than the arabs, who mostly hate us. I wonder how high the price can go. High enough that Al Gore will be the only one to fill his Lear Jet. |
#23
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams ofMoon Rocks!
Scott Hedrick wrote:
"Lloyd" wrote in message ... What happened to Bush's promise in 2000 to use his connections with the Saudis to keep oil prices down? Hey I can use my connections to sell you a bridge.... It's *working*. The demand has skyrocketed, particularly because of China. We should have seen these prices years ago. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams of Moon Rocks!
"BradGuth" wrote in message ... Forgot to mention, it's an oil and blood sucking sprint to the finish. WWIII will just be another reminder that our "no child left behind" as our national policy of being dumbfounded past the point of no return, has been working like a charm. .. - Brad Guth And just yesterday I heard somewhere that with the summer demand picking up steam, we can expect gas prices to go up five to ten cents ....per week...for a while. It's rather easy to see when a system is nearing it's breaking or tipping point. When a normally minor change in a basic variable results in unusually large effects, cascading to other related systems...that's when the point is approaching. For instance, the latest increases in oil prices set off rapid inflation in food prices and shortages around the world. We can expect each new round of increases to have ever larger effects throughout our economy. And most importantly, the effects are not only out of proportion (non-linear) to the cause, but unpredictable to boot. I think it's pretty easy to argue we're getting to a critical point and fast. Wait until the new administration takes office. We'll all be shocked at just how much this administration has covered up one problem after another. For the sake of our security. On May 7, 1:18 pm, BradGuth wrote: The scammy likes of “Williamknowsbest” (aka William Mook) isn’t fooling anyone by his “I have two facilities under construction in Indonesia that each are planned to produce 200,000 barrels per day. I am selling 20 forward contracts from each of the two facilities that are under constrution in Indonesia.” Besides the obvious misspelled/ typo “constrution”, notice as to the “each are planned to produce” qualifier, or rather disqualifier. Otherwise, what is it about an offshore investment in Indonesia that can be trusted any better than a line of supposed credit with the Bank of Nigeria? According to lord Mook and his DARPA friends; Anyplace on Earth becomes livable and otherwise survivable if you can afford it. Well lo and behold, that seems to be the prevailing problem for most of us that can’t hardly afford to keep what we’ve got, much less obtain whatever’s necessary for tomorrow. It’s gotten way past whatever pay- back time, and it’s not looking good if the likes of private competitive energy is not being allowed to emerge, or much less given public incentives for their R&D efforts by way of matching dollars. What we’re stuck with is having to import finished fuel products because our oil and coal refinery cartel is either ENRON sick beyond the point of no return, or sticking with their New World Order as their one and only plan of action. However, no matters how rich and powerful you are, it takes fire to fight fire, mostly in the form of many ICEs burning off loads of fossil derived energy that’s getting spendier and even bloodier by the hour. Electrical powered technology, unless using RTGs or via synfuel along with h2o2 created, stored and distributed by way of renewable energy that’s in surplus, isn’t going to fight any significant fire for long. Perhaps creating a multitude of km tall water towers, say at least one for each and every 100 square miles that could also be used as terrific solar energy collectors, as well as each hosting a 250 meter diameter wind turbine would start to make sense. On May 7, 7:56 am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote: Jeff If all I had was my dog Rudy I would be a happy camper. Got my conversion van up to snuff. You know Progress Energy Mafia over billed me to the tune of 750 bucks, and will not pay this fraudulent bill. Will be turning my water off this week. Even a mother just having a baby that needs warm bath water they would leave with no power.(Claire Recinello) What chance do I have. Progress Energy billing is fraudulent as proven by chanel 9 news Instead of returning $146,000,000 they are with the help of Florida Governor Charie Crist making people like me pay these overcharged bills. I wonder if Charlie Crist might let these Mafia owned utilities break my legs if they are not paid? It fits. Charlie Crist will make Osceola sheriff "Bob' Hansel the Florida Attorney General. A sheriff that can get away with threatening lives and taking away a citizen's first amendment rights is the right man for that job Oh ya Bert I take it you and others of your kind are not happy campers about joining up with the New World Order, of pandering and otherwise brown- nosing to those in charge of our 3200% fossil energy inflation in the past 60 years, and of most everything else made ENRON and Federal Reserve cartel exclusive, and for the rest of us simply over-priced to the point where only the rich and powerful can afford their water, gas and electrical overhead along with their $5/gallon fuel. Doing the last year's worth of crude oil profits alone, at $60 extra per barrel with no real increase in their process of extracting that oil, whereas if anything via technology, automation and labor efficiency improvements it's taking less overall human effort to extract each crude barrel of oil (even from oily sand). $60 * gross oil barrels = net extra profits within just the last year. $60 * 31e9 = $1860e9 ($1.86 trillion in surplus profit for 2008) As I'd said, this doesn't even include any portion of their previously established profit margins of past years, or the ongoing secondary cost impacts and thus collateral inflation upon most everything else (such as water), not to forget those having died and others dieing as a direct result of such energy profit takings. In total we’re looking at having to fork out at least an extra $3 trillion in just the last year alone, and likely $5 trillion for this next inflated year whereas consumer products, food, housing and services manage to catch up to their previous plus recent impact of their having to do business with such artificially higher cost of energy and water. Expect those pesky energy and food riots, plus a whole lot worse things to come, just like having been orchestrated by the mostly Semitic Third Reich DARPA and by those brown-nosed minions of their faith-based puppeteers in charge of squeezing your private parts. Soon enough, the final straw may come when beer cost $12 per 6-pack, cup of joe at $5 and road fuel running $10/gallon (private aviation fuel with local and federal tax and airport usage surcharge is likely to hit that $10 mark within the year), then what? . - Brad Guth On May 6, 6:17 pm, "jonathan" wrote: I'M MAD AS HELL...... It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton. It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/. Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025 give or take ten? I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President Bush upon taking office. This is what history will say I believe. Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon over SSP was a result of two things. The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race. Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere" As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks. They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says... There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses and global warming. A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national security. This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT) a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Power_Exploratory_Research_a... By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States ...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we ...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia". Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world. But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese. Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity? I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it as well. Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to long term public and Congressional support. A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA. Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's ..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's ..lack of backbone. Jonathan s BTW, my LSE-CM/ISS is still technically doable, as are the expeditions of Venus, and if need be setting up POOF City at Venus L2. I've top posted for the benefit of others. . - BG |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams ofMoon Rocks!
jonathan wrote:
[snip] Considering virtually NO money has been spent of SSP research, and yet some are already presenting concepts where directly solar pumped lasers replace microwaves, and rectenna sizes as small as three meters, about the size of a car. If some real research money were dedicated who knows what advances might happen? The world has a population of several billion people so giving every one their own SSP satellite would require several billion satellite, that is not going to happen. Consequently SSP satellites have to be city sized. The solar power collected by the SSP satellite needs converting for downloading. On the Earth a gigantic receiver is needed - the size of a city. (A small receiver on every roof is still the size of a city, it just has wasteful holes in it.) That receiver will be lucky to get as much power as solar cells at the same location. The advantage SSP has over Earth solar cells and solar thermal is that it works at night. Pity we use less electricity at night. (Offices and factories close at night.) If you want to help the world build wind farms, solar power towers, terrestrial solar electric panels and add a solar thermal water heating system to your roof. Forget SSP. Andrew Swallow |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams ofMoon Rocks!
On May 8, 5:25 pm, Andrew Swallow wrote:
jonathan wrote: [snip] Considering virtually NO money has been spent of SSP research, and yet some are already presenting concepts where directly solar pumped lasers replace microwaves, and rectenna sizes as small as three meters, about the size of a car. If some real research money were dedicated who knows what advances might happen? The world has a population of several billion people so giving every one their own SSP satellite would require several billion satellite, that is not going to happen. Consequently SSP satellites have to be city sized. The solar power collected by the SSP satellite needs converting for downloading. On the Earth a gigantic receiver is needed - the size of a city. (A small receiver on every roof is still the size of a city, it just has wasteful holes in it.) That receiver will be lucky to get as much power as solar cells at the same location. The advantage SSP has over Earth solar cells and solar thermal is that it works at night. Pity we use less electricity at night. (Offices and factories close at night.) If you want to help the world build wind farms, solar power towers, terrestrial solar electric panels and add a solar thermal water heating system to your roof. Forget SSP. Andrew Swallow Good for telling it like it is. Another good thing you're not up against William Mook, our resident PV wizard. However, perhaps my 1.2 TW SSP that's at the end of the LSE-CM/ISS tether dipole element (roughly 2r from Earth) has potential for a whole lot more than clean energy. BTW, I totally agree with wind-farms, even if it's just one super- tower per 100 square miles is roughly a whole lot better than what we've got. A multitasking wind, solar and stirling energy tower should be good for at least 40 kw/m2 of its tower footprint, with a 50 kw/m2 potential. .. - Brad Guth |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams of Moon Rocks!
On Fri, 09 May 2008 01:25:43 +0100, Andrew Swallow
wrote: If you want to help the world build wind farms, Iowa is a leader at that. 5% of the juice in Iowa is from wind. Unlike solar, it works at night. , Terrestrial solar electric panels are the thing for a boat. Keep the batteries charged and run a ventilation blower and a bilge pump. Casady |
#28
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams ofMoon Rocks!
jonathan wrote: "BradGuth" wrote in message ... Forgot to mention, it's an oil and blood sucking sprint to the finish. WWIII will just be another reminder that our "no child left behind" as our national policy of being dumbfounded past the point of no return, has been working like a charm. . - Brad Guth And just yesterday I heard somewhere that with the summer demand picking up steam, we can expect gas prices to go up five to ten cents ...per week...for a while. Our ENRON managed oil refineries will be sure to make that one come true, if not work at doubling that weekly increase amount. It's rather easy to see when a system is nearing it's breaking or tipping point. When a normally minor change in a basic variable results in unusually large effects, cascading to other related systems...that's when the point is approaching. For instance, the latest increases in oil prices set off rapid inflation in food prices and shortages around the world. We can expect each new round of increases to have ever larger effects throughout our economy. And most importantly, the effects are not only out of proportion (non-linear) to the cause, but unpredictable to boot. I think it's pretty easy to argue we're getting to a critical point and fast. Wait until the new administration takes office. We'll all be shocked at just how much this administration has covered up one problem after another. For the sake of our security. Even if the return of Christ took charge, I think we're sort of screwed, especially after our DARPA and company of brown-nosed minions gets him put back on that stick again. .. - Brad Guth |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams ofMoon Rocks!
On May 7, 5:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Tue, 6 May 2008 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Totorkon made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: A 5Gw SPS would have a mass close to 100X the ISS. *If its cost were scaled by the same measure, the price tag would exceed twelve trillion dollars. It would be absurd to assume that it would scale that way. But it will serve as a handy baseline for any critic of such a project. At 12 cents/Kwh it would have to cost no more than 1% of that figure, $120B, just to pay for itself, without a profit. A structure of more than nine square miles, in GEO, for less than the cost of the ISS. I don't think this is absurd, but it does have the smell of political suicide. |
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... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams of Moon Rocks!
On Thu, 8 May 2008 23:41:47 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Totorkon made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On May 7, 5:25*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Tue, 6 May 2008 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away, Totorkon made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: A 5Gw SPS would have a mass close to 100X the ISS. *If its cost were scaled by the same measure, the price tag would exceed twelve trillion dollars. It would be absurd to assume that it would scale that way. But it will serve as a handy baseline for any critic of such a project. At 12 cents/Kwh it would have to cost no more than 1% of that figure, $120B, just to pay for itself, without a profit. A structure of more than nine square miles, in GEO, for less than the cost of the ISS. There's no reason that the unit cost couldn't be much less than that. As I said, it's an absurd way to cost it. There is almost zero relationship between the costs of ISS and any future large-scale structural activity. |
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