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On July 20.1969.....



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 04, 01:27 AM
Robert Casey
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Default On July 20.1969.....

Now officially, if you reached that point and
weren't actually on the ground yet, you were supposed to abort --
otherwise you lost your escape route -- but in practice, most of the
Apollo CDRs would probably have said "don't bother me, I'm busy landing"
and carried on to touchdown.




We're talking about a surface that no one was familiar with.


Not totally unfamiliar, in that a few surveyor landing moon
probes (and some of the Russian probes) demonstrated that the
lunar surface could in fact support spacecraft. There was some
concern that that Moon might be covered by a thick layer of fluff.

But Neil had to hunt around some to find a clear spot without
big rocks to land on.

How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.

  #2  
Old July 21st 04, 01:35 AM
Dr_Postman
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Default On July 20.1969.....

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:27:45 GMT, Robert Casey
wrote:

Now officially, if you reached that point and
weren't actually on the ground yet, you were supposed to abort --
otherwise you lost your escape route -- but in practice, most of the
Apollo CDRs would probably have said "don't bother me, I'm busy landing"
and carried on to touchdown.




We're talking about a surface that no one was familiar with.


Not totally unfamiliar, in that a few surveyor landing moon
probes (and some of the Russian probes) demonstrated that the
lunar surface could in fact support spacecraft. There was some
concern that that Moon might be covered by a thick layer of fluff.


Or thick with cheese



But Neil had to hunt around some to find a clear spot without
big rocks to land on.


That's what I was addressing. The first spot turned out to be
too rough.


How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.



I bet they could have made adjustments if the legs snapped. With
the low gravity it wouldn't have been that difficult to set up the
LM so that it could return.





--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: TuriFake(at)hotmail.com

"Did the Venus transit occur during sunset, idiot?"
- Grant,on the GLP web board, explains to us how
sunrise happens in NY and Asia at the same time.
  #3  
Old July 21st 04, 01:35 AM
Dr_Postman
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Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:27:45 GMT, Robert Casey
wrote:

Now officially, if you reached that point and
weren't actually on the ground yet, you were supposed to abort --
otherwise you lost your escape route -- but in practice, most of the
Apollo CDRs would probably have said "don't bother me, I'm busy landing"
and carried on to touchdown.




We're talking about a surface that no one was familiar with.


Not totally unfamiliar, in that a few surveyor landing moon
probes (and some of the Russian probes) demonstrated that the
lunar surface could in fact support spacecraft. There was some
concern that that Moon might be covered by a thick layer of fluff.


Or thick with cheese



But Neil had to hunt around some to find a clear spot without
big rocks to land on.


That's what I was addressing. The first spot turned out to be
too rough.


How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.



I bet they could have made adjustments if the legs snapped. With
the low gravity it wouldn't have been that difficult to set up the
LM so that it could return.





--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: TuriFake(at)hotmail.com

"Did the Venus transit occur during sunset, idiot?"
- Grant,on the GLP web board, explains to us how
sunrise happens in NY and Asia at the same time.
  #4  
Old July 21st 04, 01:07 PM
Ian Stirling
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Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....

In sci.space.policy Robert Casey wrote:
Now officially, if you reached that point and
weren't actually on the ground yet, you were supposed to abort --
otherwise you lost your escape route -- but in practice, most of the
Apollo CDRs would probably have said "don't bother me, I'm busy landing"
and carried on to touchdown.


How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.


I should probably look this up...
Is the LM light enough that it could be manhandled to a flat spot, if
(for example) a leg broke, it it landed intact on a large rock.

How vertical did the ascent stage need to be?


  #5  
Old July 21st 04, 01:07 PM
Ian Stirling
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Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....

In sci.space.policy Robert Casey wrote:
Now officially, if you reached that point and
weren't actually on the ground yet, you were supposed to abort --
otherwise you lost your escape route -- but in practice, most of the
Apollo CDRs would probably have said "don't bother me, I'm busy landing"
and carried on to touchdown.


How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.


I should probably look this up...
Is the LM light enough that it could be manhandled to a flat spot, if
(for example) a leg broke, it it landed intact on a large rock.

How vertical did the ascent stage need to be?


  #6  
Old July 22nd 04, 01:30 AM
Robert Casey
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Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....




I should probably look this up...
Is the LM light enough that it could be manhandled to a flat spot, if
(for example) a leg broke, it it landed intact on a large rock.


I don't think it was that light, even under lunar gravity.
Also the astronauts might not be in great shape if they did
take a hard landing...

How vertical did the ascent stage need to be?


IIRC something like 10 degrees off vertical. Which doesn't
seem like much considering that the landing field isn't a
paved airport. Must have been more than that.




  #7  
Old July 22nd 04, 01:30 AM
Robert Casey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....




I should probably look this up...
Is the LM light enough that it could be manhandled to a flat spot, if
(for example) a leg broke, it it landed intact on a large rock.


I don't think it was that light, even under lunar gravity.
Also the astronauts might not be in great shape if they did
take a hard landing...

How vertical did the ascent stage need to be?


IIRC something like 10 degrees off vertical. Which doesn't
seem like much considering that the landing field isn't a
paved airport. Must have been more than that.




  #8  
Old July 22nd 04, 05:53 AM
Henry Spencer
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Default On July 20.1969.....

In article ,
Robert Casey wrote:
How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.


If you were willing to make an emergency departure, leaving at once, I
believe there is basically nothing in the descent stage that has to be
working after touchdown. (To a considerable extent this is by design:
the ascent stage is the backup for various kinds of descent-stage
failures.) About the only real requirement is that the LM not be
tilted too badly.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |
  #9  
Old July 22nd 04, 05:53 AM
Henry Spencer
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Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....

In article ,
Robert Casey wrote:
How bad a landing could the LM take and still have a flyable
ascent stage? Say the legs got busted up so forget about the
moon walks.


If you were willing to make an emergency departure, leaving at once, I
believe there is basically nothing in the descent stage that has to be
working after touchdown. (To a considerable extent this is by design:
the ascent stage is the backup for various kinds of descent-stage
failures.) About the only real requirement is that the LM not be
tilted too badly.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |
  #10  
Old July 22nd 04, 05:55 AM
Henry Spencer
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Posts: n/a
Default On July 20.1969.....

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
Is the LM light enough that it could be manhandled to a flat spot, if
(for example) a leg broke, it it landed intact on a large rock.


No. Even with the descent-stage tanks empty, the mass is several tons.

How vertical did the ascent stage need to be?


A quick look doesn't find a specific number. Dim memory says 15-20deg was
the limit. The Apollo 15 was tilted about 10deg because its rear foot was
in a small crater.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |
 




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