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#11
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....AN OPEN LETTER TO THE IGNORANT MASSES !!!!!
"George Dishman" wrote in message ... "Pat Flannery" wrote in message ... George Dishman wrote: Good guess, Darwinian evolution has a number of basic requirements, the first of which is the ability to reproduce. Satellites don't do that, nor do we yet have the technology to give them that ability, nor do we have the millions of years it takes for evolutionary process to work in the real world. If they are going to reproduce they are going to need added mass to produce their young, where that mass will come from is a good question; are they to consume other satellites like predators? Can ideas reproduce themselves? Take on a life of their own and adapt? Can ideas change the world? Can you even think in abstract terms? Clearly, after all I'm sure Jonathon would confirm that being a predator is more sustainable than cannibalism so that would be how they would evolve. George |
#12
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....AN OPEN LETTER TO THE IGNORANT MASSES !!!!!
jonathan wrote: "George Dishman" wrote in message ps.com... jonathan wrote: I've Been Patient, I've tried to be reasonable. No you haven't, you have a track history of butting in on any conversation and trying to change it to your agenda regardless of the topic - a classic 'mission poster'. Fine, what has that to do with the idea? context restored In another thread I wrote. SPS has officially crossed the first big hurdle in it's inevitable comeback. Presumably "SPS" is something like solar power satellite? I am simply claiming we can apply the processes of Darwinian evolution to this, and any, given problem. Therefore producing a problem solving technique that rivals nature. A problem solving technique that defines .....the best this universe... can provide. But I'm certain you will reject and ridicule this possibility. Good guess, Darwinian evolution has a number of basic requirements, the first of which is the ability to reproduce. Satellites don't do that, nor do we yet have the technology to give them that ability, nor do we have the millions of years it takes for evolutionary process to work in the real world. But my hobby is the abstract mathematics of Darwinian evolution. Fine, what has that to do with the idea? You were suggesting using an evolutionary technique applied to solar power satellites, you didn't mention maths. Using evolutionary techniques within the modelling as part of the design process is appropriate where systems are too complex for analytical techniques to give an immediate answer, but that's completely different from launching a bunch of satellites and letting them fight for survival and breeding rights. Abstract means universally applicable. No it doesn't: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...ne:%20abstract George |
#13
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....AN OPEN LETTER TO THE IGNORANT MASSES !!!!!
"George Dishman" wrote in message ups.com... But my hobby is the abstract mathematics of Darwinian evolution. Fine, what has that to do with the idea? You were suggesting using an evolutionary technique applied to solar power satellites, you didn't mention maths. Using evolutionary techniques within the modelling as part of the design process is appropriate where systems are too complex for analytical techniques to give an immediate answer, but that's completely different from launching a bunch of satellites and letting them fight for survival and breeding rights. Well, my point is that is that we can use the concepts of evolutionary processes to design ....a goal. A goal for solving our energy future. Of which SPS is a good example of what might be produced from such a problem solving process. The ultimate solutions to our energy future are too complex and long term to come up with a definitive solution up front. Which so many seem determined to do. A goal should be designed with the same thought and care as any piece of hardware, yet this is rarely the case. Look at Nasa's desire to go back to the moon. Even the administrator admitted it's a matter of faith, that we should have faith that somehow it will produce discoveries and benefits. Yet no one can really say what those will with any credibility. That's not a goal that's rational, it's more of a prayer. I'm simply saying we should apply our best efforts and science to the initial goal, before launching a forty year hundreds of billions dollar program. As Nasa is doing right now. On a prayer, driven by Big Contractor profits. I believe we can apply evolutionary concepts to setting an optimum goal. A goal with the best chance of inspiring public and Congressional support and generating success would be... To find a sustainable replacement for fossil fuels before climate change becomes irreversible. This goal would be optimized for the following reasons. It will appeal to the broadest base of people possible by Maximizing potential tangible benefits Cheaper energy costs in the future Reduces chances of wars over oil Increases economic indepence Maximizing inspirational appeal Potential to bring cheap energy to the world Potential to turn America into worlds energy supplier Creates an optimisitic view of the future It will simultaneously address two of our greatest long term anxieties The impending shortage of fossil fuels The impending destruction of Global Warming In my hobby, complexity science, the point is to create a self-organizing system. Which is accomplished when.... the static and chaotic attractor basins are in an unstable equilibrium with each other. The static attractor is that of tangible benefits. The chaotic attractor is that of inspirational appeal They become a dynamic system when the the two are fully connected un an unstable equilibrium. They become connected when both attractor realms converge on a single solution. Completing this problem, resolving the two realms into one solution, ends up with solar energy and space. Hence Space Solar Power. However, that solution may evolve as technology and needs advance over time. My point is also, in theory, this goal has all the same abstract characteristics as JFK's moon goal. By maximizing the potential effect on the present, and the future within a framework of great urgency. SPS within a context of Global Warming should succeed just as well. As it shares the same abstract design. So this goal has the best chance to 'get the ball rolling' and start a dedicated program aimed at finding the solutions to two of this planets greatest problems. Energy and Climate Change. It's a goal designed to do nothing less than 'Save the World'. It must appeal, and succeed. Else.... Jonathan s |
#14
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....AN OPEN LETTER TO THE IGNORANT MASSES !!!!!
jonathan wrote: "George Dishman" wrote in message ups.com... But my hobby is the abstract mathematics of Darwinian evolution. Fine, what has that to do with the idea? You were suggesting using an evolutionary technique applied to solar power satellites, you didn't mention maths. Using evolutionary techniques within the modelling as part of the design process is appropriate where systems are too complex for analytical techniques to give an immediate answer, but that's completely different from launching a bunch of satellites and letting them fight for survival and breeding rights. Well, my point is that is that we can use the concepts of evolutionary processes to design ....a goal. OK, but ... A goal for solving our energy future. Too late, you just stated the goal ;-) Of which SPS is a good example of what might be produced from such a problem solving process. The problem is that you have to define a goal in order to construct some sort of scoring scheme against which each generation of your evolution can be judged as the basis of which are tio be selected to "survive". Consider it logically, one aim might be to gather as much energy as possible as cheaply as possible. The surface area of the planet is then grater than can be achieved by satellites so using the planet is the option that propagates. The logical end result is a comparison of wind farms, hydroelectric, wave power and so on, with IMHO bio-fuels as a key player. The ultimate solutions to our energy future are too complex and long term to come up with a definitive solution up front. Which so many seem determined to do. You assume w have to choose but that's not the case, we can use _all_ the options wherever they represent the most economical for a given application. For example hydroelectric is very productive where the terrain suits (look at Brazil) while wind power is popular in Germany. Bio-fuel has a clear advantage in the distribution costs and negligible re-engineering need for current vehicles. A goal should be designed with the same thought and care as any piece of hardware, yet this is rarely the case. Look at Nasa's desire to go back to the moon. Even the administrator admitted it's a matter of faith, that we should have faith that somehow it will produce discoveries and benefits. Yet no one can really say what those will with any credibility. That's not a goal that's rational, it's more of a prayer. You have to understand the real goal - it was purely politically motivated with NASA being given the impossible task of justifying some return _after_ it was announced, it wasn't their initiative remember and many of the good science projects will be killed to feed what is no more than a publicity stunt by a beleagured president. snip SPS within a context of Global Warming should succeed just as well. As it shares the same abstract design. So this goal has the best chance to 'get the ball rolling' and start a dedicated program aimed at finding the solutions to two of this planets greatest problems. Energy and Climate Change. It's a goal designed to do nothing less than 'Save the World'. It must appeal, and succeed. Else.... Addressing the energy problem is something I completely agree with, but you have already broken with your stated aim, you have decided that SPS is the solution without considering the alternatives, and if you applied your hobby to it, I'm sure SPS would be an early casualty or at least become a survivor only in a niche in the environment. George |
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