Earth w/o Magnetosphere, w/o Moon

"mmeron" wrote in message


Note that life on the Earth surface in the vicinity of the Earth
magnetic poles, where you've no "magnetic shielding", is not disturbed
by this fact.

Note how many humans die specifically due to cosmic and solar radiation
each year as is, whereas right now it's more than 10,000 folks and
counting/year, and those are of just the more developed nations that
even bother keeping track of such matters.

You could completely eliminate the Earth magnetic field and radiation
wise, on Earth's surface, it would've made no difference.

The hell you say. Then you will not terribly mind sharing what the
various densities of the Van Allen belts represent, as in spare
atoms/cm3.

If need be, I'll be glad to share a copy of the conx
report/(con_x_dose1.pdf), and perhaps toss in the TRW/Raytheon Space
Data Report just for being a good sport.

BTW; I agree that 10t/m2 worth of atmosphere is in fact the bulk of
what's moderating the incoming radiation that's getting through the Van
Allen badlands, such as fending off the considerable gamma plus soft and
hard X-rays derived from our naked moon. However, once our trusty
magnetosphere has faded away, so will another portion of the atmosphere.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Lo and behold: Venus MAY Have had a Moon

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.sc...d7b86593b27332
(beginning of topic)

From: TeaTime / Date: Wed, Nov 8 2006 6:41 pm
Groups: uk.sci.astronomy

Did Venus once have a moon? A talking point with some interesting
references:
http://skytonight.com/news/4353026.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...6-152C-8A66834...
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/hypothet.htm#neith
-

From: Jonathan Silverlight / Date: Sun, Nov 12 2006 3:26 pm

Isn't there some question as to whether Venus owes its rotation to one
impact, let alone two? The Wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus links to a paper in Icarus saying
tidal slowing of the atmosphere may have produced its current state
http://www.imcce.fr/Equipes/ASD/preprints/prep.2002/venus1.2002.pdf
The moons of Mars didn't form by collision - I don't think anyone has a
sensible theory for them :-)
-

From: TeaTime / Date: Mon, Nov 13 2006 5:34 am

Yes, certainly a possibility, although popular theories for Venus do
suggest
a catastrophic collision which put its axis/rotation in the retrograde.
Tidal action of the Earth on Venus, acting steadily for billennia, then
established the 3:2 spin-orbit resonance. Every 2 earth years, the exact
same 'side' of the Venusian surface faces Earth. So maybe there is some
sub-surface mass concentration on this area of Venus that the Earth
pulls on
to create the tidal lock ... a mascon created by the collision perhaps?
Hopefully a lot more data will be forthcoming shortly.

http://www.imcce.fr/Equipes/ASD/preprints/prep.2002/venus1.2002.pdf
The moons of Mars didn't form by collision - I don't think anyone has a
sensible theory for them :-)

They are ugly little blighters, aren't they. At first glance, one sees
captured asteroids (or even comets) but apparently there is much
scientific
opinion to the contrary. Glad we don't have a chunk of rock like Phobos
orbiting the earth at just a few thousand miles up.
-
(current end of topic)
-

Oops! Mars collected asteroids? Seems that we've heard this valid
argument before, although apparently those very same pesky laws of
physics work entirely different on behalf of Mars obtaining such moons,
as opposed to Earth which apparently can't possibly muster whatever
hocus-pocus conditional physics it takes for doing the same.

Obviously our public/Caltech supercomputers and of those well funded
individuals are quite available for drafting out this sort of an effort,
and it gets rather well published to boot. I wonder what's the silly
problem in running off a few alternatives on behalf of Earth's moon,
just to honestly see what happens.
-
Brad Guth


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Most folks are still not being allowed to fully appreciate our moon's
L1. Of course, most Americans are still pretty much mainstream
dumbfounded and/or having been snookered about a great many such
important things in this highly infomercial skewed life, even as to what
little we've been allowed to know of (such as there having been
intelligent other life existing/coexisting on Venus). Perhaps those
more intelligent members in support of the China National Space
Administration/CNSA are as such less snookered than we're giving them
credit for.

Basically, the average free-gravity-zone of this moon L1 is supposedly
r33.5~r34 away from the moon and otherwise merely r51 from Earth
(unfortunately there's still no hard-scientific and thus independently
replicated proof of such actually being the case of those specific
numbers), that's worthy of obtaining micro if not nano and even pico
gravity, although nearly any +/- adjustment in the net gravity can be
accommodated and rather efficiently interactively sustained.

Within this interactive moon L1 pocket (+/- wherever it has to be) there
should be as little as 1% the atoms/cm3 and of the required velocity is
roughly 9 fold less than LEO (those factors alone represent a rather
huge reduction in orbital friction, and thereby greatly minimizing
station-keeping energy demands). There's also no pesky gauntlet of Van
Allen belt radiation or SAA like nasty pocket of magnetosphere stored
radiation. It's also nearly always sunny as well as having either
earthshine and/or moonshine at your disposal, and of that moonshine so
happens to include a great deal of useful secondary/recoil photons in
the IR/FIR spectrum, plus offering loads of gamma and hard-X-rays
because there's so little mass between L1 and the highly reactive naked
surface of the physically dark and cosmic morgue that's represented by
our moon.

The moon's L1 is not technically a problem for most robotics, however
our frail DNA will demand a great amount of shielding that's similar to
8 meters of water, and for any long term (multi year) human involvement
demanding 16 meters of water unless an artificial magnetosphere can be
sustained. There's also the pesky matter of having to survive various
meteors of potentially lethal flak that isn't the least bit moderated in
velocity nor being gravity diverted.

This fancy enough "Clarke Station" document that's nicely revised and
certainly rather interesting but otherwise seriously outdated,
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications...aryland01b.pdf
not to mention way under-shielded unless incorporating 8+ meters of
water plus having somehow established an artificial magnetosphere, or
perhaps incorporating 16+ meters of h2o if w/o magnetosphere (shielding
that's necessary because it's parked within 60,000 km from our
physically dark and otherwise highly reactive moon that's continually
providing such a not so DNA friendly TBI worth of gamma and
hard-X-rays), is simply a downright deficient document about sharing the
positive science and constructive habitat/depot considerations for
utilizing the moon's L1. In fact, there's hardly any mention of the
tremendous L1 benefits to humanity, much less as to space exploration or
the daunting task of salvaging our mascon warmed environment, and it's
still not having squat to do with any primary task of actually
developing, exploiting or otherwise terraforming the moon itself.

On the other hand, whereas the CM/ISS portion of the LSE which I've
proposed offers 50t/m2 of outter shell or hull shielding for
accommodating the 1e9 m3 interior, thereby multiple decades if not an
entire lifetime can be afforded, as to safely accommodating our frail
DNA. That may seem like a rather great amount of tonnage deployment,
though eventually 99.9% is derived from the moon itself. Of course,
don't mind anything that I have to suggest, whereas you can keep
thinking as small and/or as insignificant as you'd like. However, our
having remained as LEO/terrestrial sequestered isn't going to help us
explore, pillage and rape the other planets and of their moons, not to
mention the mining and/or possible terraforming potential of digging
into our very own global warming moon that's chuck full of nifty and
rare elements.

I guess what's needed for this topic is an open mindset that isn't
afraid of it's own shadow, that isn't afraid of having made or of making
a few honest or even not so honest mistakes, nor demonstrating that
perhaps we're not exactly the smartest nor the most entitled species of
DNA in this universe. (sorry about that)
-
Brad Guth


--
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"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:ea7904dcf9cf8a9fd7a4e4d97da058f4.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Using salty and otherwise icy moons to transfer life as we know it. Why
not?

Lithopanspermia and you

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...d4bf86bb57cb6e

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sc...ma ilgate.org

I have no problems with the likes of multi teratonne litho transfers of
minerals, salty ice and life as we know it, even if such opportunities
having been intentionally taken advantage of by ETs having a master
plan.

"Microbe experiment suggests we could all be Martians" sounds perfectly
doable.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...989431,00.html
"To their surprise, the scientists found the lichen and bacterial spores
survived all but the most cataclysmic impacts up to 45 billion pascals.
The cyanobacteria survived shocks of up to 10 billion pascals."

Just to honestly think a little outside the box; If much larger life as
we know it were surrounded or otherwise covered by 100 km of salty ice,
whereas a Buick and passengers within could easily have survived the
transfer, especially if such were of a sucker-punch glancung blow from
behind, in which case you wouldn't even require the Buick.

"Rusty" wrote in message
oups.com
Interesting theory, but Earth with its oceans, undersea smokers,
lightning, volcanos, etc etc etc wouldn't seem to have had any trouble
forming life locally. You would think it would be the reverse and earth
may have seeded life to Mars by this method.

Lithopanspermia seems perfectly doable. After all, Earth's life was
almost entirely litho transfer based, if not intentionally terraformed
by way of ET-4H clubs in order to suit their motives and whatever weird
agenda.

Life going from Earth outward via some cosmic happenstance is a bit of a
stretch, though possible since we seem to get a few spores from Venus
each and very 19 month cycle.

Was our sun and of its solar wind more active in the past? (I'd thought
it was usually the other way around).

When did Earth get its salty oceans, its seasonal tilt, its Arctic ocean
basin and its moon that's more than a thousand fold by ratio bigger
and/or more massive by ratio than any other known moon?

Why are there intelligent human records from the end of, while during
and even a few from before the last ice age that simply fail to mention
or otherwise take into consideration that nifty GW(global warming) moon
of ours?

Why is there no verifiable hard science of Earth's environment having
that seasonal tilt or moon prior to 10,000 BC, if not a bit more recent?

Why was early/proto human life on Earth so monoseason (w/o
summer/winter)?

Why did early/proto Venus have a beard?

Why is our extremely unusual moon still so salty?

An even better question is; Why is my "Earth w/o Magnetosphere, w/o
Moon" topic excluded/banished from within the rec.org.mensa
Mailgate/Usenet index?
-
Brad Guth


--
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Brad Guth wrote:
"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:ea7904dcf9cf8a9fd7a4e4d97da058f4.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Using salty and otherwise icy moons to transfer life as we know it. Why
not?

Lithopanspermia and you

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...d4bf86bb57cb6e

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sc...ma ilgate.org

I have no problems with the likes of multi teratonne litho transfers of
minerals, salty ice and life as we know it, even if such opportunities
having been intentionally taken advantage of by ETs having a master
plan.

"Microbe experiment suggests we could all be Martians" sounds perfectly
doable.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...989431,00.html
"To their surprise, the scientists found the lichen and bacterial spores
survived all but the most cataclysmic impacts up to 45 billion pascals.
The cyanobacteria survived shocks of up to 10 billion pascals."

Just to honestly think a little outside the box; If much larger life as
we know it were surrounded or otherwise covered by 100 km of salty ice,
whereas a Buick and passengers within could easily have survived the
transfer, especially if such were of a sucker-punch glancung blow from
behind, in which case you wouldn't even require the Buick.

"Rusty" wrote in message
oups.com
Interesting theory, but Earth with its oceans, undersea smokers,
lightning, volcanos, etc etc etc wouldn't seem to have had any trouble
forming life locally. You would think it would be the reverse and earth
may have seeded life to Mars by this method.

Lithopanspermia seems perfectly doable. After all, Earth's life was
almost entirely litho transfer based, if not intentionally terraformed
by way of ET-4H clubs in order to suit their motives and whatever weird
agenda.

Life going from Earth outward via some cosmic happenstance is a bit of a
stretch, though possible since we seem to get a few spores from Venus
each and very 19 month cycle.

Was our sun and of its solar wind more active in the past? (I'd thought
it was usually the other way around).

When did Earth get its salty oceans, its seasonal tilt, its Arctic ocean
basin and its moon that's more than a thousand fold by ratio bigger
and/or more massive by ratio than any other known moon?

Why are there intelligent human records from the end of, while during
and even a few from before the last ice age that simply fail to mention
or otherwise take into consideration that nifty GW(global warming) moon
of ours?

Why is there no verifiable hard science of Earth's environment having
that seasonal tilt or moon prior to 10,000 BC, if not a bit more recent?

Why was early/proto human life on Earth so monoseason (w/o
summer/winter)?

Why did early/proto Venus have a beard?

Why is our extremely unusual moon still so salty?

An even better question is; Why is my "Earth w/o Magnetosphere, w/o
Moon" topic excluded/banished from within the rec.org.mensa
Mailgate/Usenet index?
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG




It is far from impossible that planetary bodies do, from time to time,
collide. That Mars, Venus, and Earth, may have collided in the past is
very, very possible -- even probable.

Such collisions could come about in our very early history and have
helped determine the size of the orbs, or they may have come about more
recently and have 'glanced' off each other because of the lubricant
effect of their atmospheres.

Such 'glancing' blows could easily have taken place with the last eon
or so. While a 'glancing' blow might not result in planetary
destruction it could rip an atmosphere from a smaller orb or cause
cataclysmic spin and tilt. Come to think of it, the Earth is a little
tilted. And, Earth also has a lot of water, almost too much water if
you know what I mean. And, Mars has almost no atmosphere or water
either one.

Mars is, of course, the smaller of the two bodies and gravity would
take from the smaller and give to the larger. God is playing billiards
again, I guess.


tomcat

"tomcat" wrote in message
ups.com

Mars is, of course, the smaller of the two bodies and gravity would
take from the smaller and give to the larger. God is playing billiards
again, I guess.

It's very true and open minded that God, God's ETs as his/her minion
helpers, or possibly via the purely random happenstance of cosmic
fluctuations, such as within our local 225 million year galactic clock,
and otherwise as due to that pesky little gravity thing of essentially
everything being in orbit about something other that's of equal or
better mass, is what could bring the likes of our solar system into
close contact of the Sirius Oort cloud (such as every 100,000 some odd
years).

With somewhat better words;
Utilizing salty and otherwise icy (Sedna or Ceres like) orbs as proto
moons providing a viable means on behalf of transferring life as we know
it; Seems rather old hat, so why the hell not?

Lithopanspermia and you

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...d4bf86bb57cb6e

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sc...ma ilgate.org

I have no faith based or other purely scientific or physics problems
with the likes of multi teratonne lithobraking transfers of minerals,
salty ice and of the sorts of DNA/RNA life within that cosmic ice as we
know it, abd that's even if such opportunities having been intentionally
taken advantage of by way of sufficiently intelligent ETs having a
master plan.

"Microbe experiment suggests we could all be Martians" sounds perfectly
doable.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...989431,00.html
"To their surprise, the scientists found the lichen and bacterial spores
survived all but the most cataclysmic impacts up to 45 billion pascals.
The cyanobacteria survived shocks of up to 10 billion pascals."

To honestly think a little outside the 'Earth only' box of evolution
that somehow favored none other than the human species; If much larger
than microbe/spore life as we know it were surrounded or otherwise
covered by 100 km of salty ice, whereas a Buick and passengers within
could easily have survived the transfer, especially if such mergers were
of a sucker-punch glancing blow from behind, in which case you wouldn't
even require the Buick.

"Rusty" wrote in message
oups.com
Interesting theory, but Earth with its oceans, undersea smokers,
lightning, volcanos, etc etc etc wouldn't seem to have had any trouble
forming life locally. You would think it would be the reverse and earth
may have seeded life to Mars by this method.

Lithopanspermia seems perfectly doable. After all, Earth's life was
almost entirely litho transfer based, if not intentionally terraformed
by way of ET-4H clubs in order to suit their motives and whatever weird
agenda.

Life going from Earth outward via some cosmic happenstance is a bit of a
stretch, though possible since we seem to get a few spores from Venus
each and very 19 month cycle.

Was our sun and of its solar wind more active in the past? (I'd thought
it was usually the other way around).

When did Earth get its salty oceans, its seasonal tilt, its Arctic ocean
basin and its moon that's more than a thousand fold by ratio bigger
and/or more massive by ratio than any other known moon?

Why are there intelligent human records from the end of, while during
and even a few from before the last ice age that simply fail to mention
or otherwise take into consideration that nifty GW(global warming) moon
of ours?

Why is there no verifiable hard science of Earth's environment having
that seasonal tilt or moon prior to 10,000 BC, if not a bit more recent?

Why was early/proto human life on Earth so monoseason (w/o
summer/winter)?

Why did early/proto Venus have a beard?

Why is our extremely unusual moon still so salty?

An even better question is; Why is my "Earth w/o Magnetosphere, w/o
Moon" and a few other topics excluded/banished (as "Mailgate: Message
not available" or simply dropped out of sight), from within the
rec.org.mensa Mailgate/Usenet index?
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:ea7904dcf9cf8a9fd7a4e4d97da058f4.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Earth w/o moon and otherwise w/o Sirius would have remained as the
ultimate Winter Olympic destination world of our solar system. Every
100,000 some odd years the added warmth and life giving spectrums of
illuminations via Sirius would have made for a much less icy and
otherwise a terrific expedited zone of a life thriving environment
(especially for the likes of diatoms), but w/o moon it would not stay
that way for long as our solar system treks itself away from the Sirius
star/solar system and of its massive Oort cloud of icy (Sedna/Pluto
like) proto-moons.

This is still an ongoing work in progress, though badly mainstream
status quo flak damaged, I believe it's our best game in town for
appreciating what our physically dark and nasty moon, that's so
absolutely massive in ratio to its binary partner, has to offer such an
environment that would otherwise have been nearly that of a frosty
monoseason with an extremely modus solar tide and at times icy into the
tropics of Cancer/Capricorn. In other words, Earth w/o moon and w/o
Sirius would have been the ultimate Winter Olympics globe of mostly snow
and ice, that which only the winter sporting humans like us could
appreciate.

Unless you folks don't happen to believe in the regular laws of physics,
in that case I'll share my dyslexic encrypted research which essentially
stipulates that our somewhat recently obtained moon has been the primary
GW culprit, and then of course it's also caused by a little damage to
our somewhat sooty albedo, of what we've accomplished on behalf of
dimming our global environment so that we manage to get more solar
energy into our badly failing environment, and thirdly it's the sun
doing it's usual thing of gradually going postal as it expands unless
something feeds the right sort of fuel into that sucker.

With each orbital applied kgf = 9.80665 joules, the influence upon all
that's Earth by way of our extremely large, massive and nearby orbital
mascon we call our moon is worth 2e20 Joules.

At the very least, some of that orbital/tidal energy gets unavoidably
converted into heat via tidal friction that's directly associated with
our atmosphere, oceans and the internal movements of the Earth itself
that's below our dumbfounded two left feet. That's not to mention the
direct influence upon having transferred thermal energy about our globe
due to the atmospheric and ocean tidal currents.

0.001% of 2e20 j/m2 = 3.91 j/m2, or per surface m3 if you'd care to
think in terms of surface volume, that's in some way or another
distributed upon/within the average surface area of Earth. Obviously
the equator receives the vast majority of that lunar/tidal energy, and
the north/south poles receive the least in direct benefit. I'm
excluding upon the secondary/recoil worth of lunar IR/FIR because it's
still so taboo/nonmdisclosure to even talk about, and otherwise even
though our moon's IR/FIR albedo is fairly high (roughly 0.33~0.5), our
moon's IR/FIR most likely isn't worth 1% of what the gravity/tidal
influence has to offer.

Moon's tidal energy, upon average at 0.001% = 3.91 j/m2

Us humans at one kj/soul = 6.7e12 joules = 13.1 mj/m2

Mother Earth that's getting rid of 40 TJ = 78.25 mj/m2

The 2e20 J as per acting upon the total volume of Earth (excluding our
52e17 kg of atmosphere), with Earth's physical volume being 1.083e21 m3
= 185 mj/m3

At .01% of 2e20 J, isn't the moon actually worthy of 39.1 j/m2 ?
I happen to believe in the regular laws of physics, and in those thermal
dynamics that's derived from good old friction and the unavoidable
transferring of such energy about and within our globe, whereas my best
swag as to our moon's tidal affects upon Earth is leaning closer to if
not a tough greater than 0.01%, therefore we're talking about receiving
a continuous surface environment worth of 39.1 j/m2, and at best our
combined (all inclusive) human influence or environmental impact simply
isn't worth much greater than 10% of that amount (as even that's 298
kj/soul), therefore perhaps humanity isn't at best worth but 1% of the
total GW package.

So, you folks can cry all you want about whatever humanity did or didn't
do to mother Earth, and lo and behold global warming will unavoidably
continue w/o our help, though merely at a slightly reduced rate, and
that's even if each and every fossil consuming or even yellowcake energy
sucking and unavoidably soot and toxic chemical polluting soul upon this
planet were removed. Sorry about that.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"tomcat" wrote in message
ups.com

The Earth has periods of warming and cooling that appear to have no
connection whatsoever with the activity of man. While it is possible
that we are 'aggravating' Global Warming it is unlikely that we have
caused it or that we can stop it by our actions.
That's mostly true, whereas I give humanity all of 10% worth of the
ongoing GW fiasco, and the other 90% as contributed to our extremely
large, massive and nearby moon that has only been with us since the last
ice age.

However, as it is, it takes a good -20 j/m2 shift and more than a month
in order to force a given summertime environment into an icy winter
environment. Obviously it'll take a little something extra, plus
countless years of better than -20 J/m2 in order to reconstruct those
absolutely missive layers and vast areas worth of such thick ice, as far
as reaching their frost well into the tropics of Cancer/Capricorn.


It is to our advantage to do those things that will enable us to
adapt, rather than try to stop the inevitable at the cost of our
economy.
We seem to be running on Muslim blood, or any other blood that's getting
in our way.


INSULATION will protect against both heat and cold. To triple the
insulation in our homes makes a good deal of sense.
Oddly, I have R1024/m at your disposal, and its somewhat structural as
well as essentially fire proof.


DOMES will protect against high winds in the Super Storm category.
Geodesic domes should become the 'new' style in above ground housing.
I agree, as well as for promoting 50/50 underground for those bad solar
days w/o a viable magnetosphere to defend our frail DNA seems like a
good move.


UNDERGROUND homes don't get hit by the wind at all and provide
enormous insulation besides. Obviously a good choice where a high
water table doesn't present problems.
Now you're talking common sense and of what's perfectly doable within
existing expertise and resources.


ELECTRICITY provides the energy to produce either heat or cold for our
homes as well as lighting, cooking, and hot water, et. al. Massive
nuclear reactors in relatively barren parts of our country should be
built to augment our electrical power reserves.
The composite solar PV, Stirling and Wind Turbine energy footprint
density is roughly 100 fold better off than most anything nuclear.


DISTILLATION of Sea Water should be developed that could take the
place of rivers and streams that dry up due to Global Changes.
Lots of spare energy in = h2o out.


OUTER SPACE needs our top priority so that man can leave the Earth and
be free of Earth's changes, cold, hot, or violent. Space Colonies
will 'not' be affected by Earth's climate except when they are still
dependent on Earth for resupply.
All we or rather China have to accomplish is that of our moon's L1.


GENETIC ENGINEERING can adapt man to a particular environment. While
our current capabilites are marginal, soon adaptation to extreme
environments will be Genetics 101 taught at the Freshman level.
Intelligent design is but one of the ways out of this horrific mess.


SOLAR ENGINEERING so we can tame that big furnace 'up there' that is
currently melting our ice caps.
Silly jewboy that's still in denial; without our pesky mascon/moon, or
simply with our moon relocated out to Earth L1 would more than cool off
mother Earth, and then some.


The above are a few suggestions that could -- if done in time -- help
prevent cataclysmic events by enabling us to simply adapt to the
changes. The events would then be 'dramatic' but not 'cataclysmic'.
But first you'll have to get most all of those born-again liars (mostly
those Third Reich minions of the Old Testament and/or Skull and Bones
types) out of public office. Good luck on that one.
-
Brad Guth


--
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"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:09119ca4fc63a755ff19e35ab5699889.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

First of all, Earth w/o moon would still be humanly livable, although
soon enough becoming an icy cold sucker. However, Earth w/o
magnetosphere will soon become a larger version of Mars, and thus not so
surface livable.

An ongoing question is: What can we best afford to move into Earth's L1
that'll give us the most interactive control of shade, and still provide
us with multiple other nifty considerations that are much better off
than we currently have to work with?

The previous pun of a notion that's on behalf of relocating Sedna to
Earth's L1 might eventually become one of our best solutions for
accomplishing a solar shade that's a little big but otherwise just about
the right size of solar shade. However, as for my going along with John
Schilling, I'd have to agree that a relocation of Sedna to Earth's L1 is
a stretch, not to mention a serious long term alternative that sucks at
being at least a good century at best away from benefiting our GW
situation, that's only going to get worse per year after year no matters
what. Or, don't you folks fully appreciate where the vast majority of
our ice age thawing and ongoing GW energy is actually coming from?

Did by chance any of you folks even once bother to ask our resident
lord/wizard William Mook, as to exactly how much tonnage of U238/U235
we're talking about, as per relocating our very own moon, to Earth's L1?

Or, what if instead of wasting a perfectly good 2000 kg cache of U238
that we're likely going to need for WW-III, we simply utilized Sedna's
arriving worth of KE, as for having a direct impact at just the right
timing and angle?

Say if Sedna's icy mass of 5e21 kg were orchestrated on behalf of
arriving at the final moon impact velocity of 2 km/s = 1e28 x eff joules

Even if that were at 10% KE impact efficiency, that's offering 1e27
joules, although a rear-ender/(sucker punch) at 1 km/sec would become a
much softer 2.5e26 joules, that by rights should still accomplish a
little something impressive.
-

Alternative if not a whole lot better local Plan-B: Relocate our moon

Relocating lunar mass via L2 deployed tether, far out past the moon's L2
point of no return. Say going way out there for using this 2X L2, and
say we/robotics somehow manage to place 1e9 tonnes out there on the
tippy end of that nifty 2X L2 tethered distance away from the moon's CG,
a placement distance of roughly 129,400 km for starters seems perfectly
doable.

How much applied exit or delta-v force is that going to provide?

Here's the best preliminary math that seems about right.

2X moon L2 = 129,400 km

129,400 / 384,400 = .33663

Orbital velocity: 1.33663 x 1.023 km/s = 1.367 km/s

2X L2 orbital Earth velocity = 1.367 km/s (in relation to Earth)

2X L2 orbital moon velocity = 344.421 m/s (in relation to the moon)

Centripetal/Centrifugal force: Fc=MV2/r
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/cf.html#cf

If we're given the 2X L2 orbital mass of 1e12 kg (including whatever's
tether)

Moon's 2X L2: Fc=MV2/r = 9.167374e8 N = 93,481 tonnes

Earth/moon 2X L2: Fc=MV2/r = 3.637e9 N = 370,871 tonnes

That's a combined total of 464,353 tonnes of centrifugal applied force
that's worthy of accomplishing something, especially when applied over
the time span of perhaps a few years, of which I don't believe it'll
actually take all that long, or even nearly the 1e12 kg placement of
mass at the moon's 2X L2.

Roughly/swag speaking; using this moon L2 package of 1e12 kg in
tethered mass acting as a physical tug upon getting that nasty moon
further away from Earth, how long will it take for that task of getting
rid of our moon (relocated to Earth L1 that is)?

Seems having our moon relocated to Earth's L1 is actually a
multi-tasking win-win for accomplishing all sorts of future science and
space exploration, and otherwise of direct benefit to our environment,
and of most everything else I can think of seems better off. As for the
naysay or whatever negatives, at least thus far I have a list of zilch
to offer because, it even benefits my LSE-CM/ISS that can still deploy
its tether dipole element to within 4r of Earth, and there's lots more
to consider if you still have that yaysay open mindset to work with.
-
Brad Guth


--
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"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:09119ca4fc63a755ff19e35ab5699889.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Perhaps entirely w/o moon is asking a bit much, especially since Earth
would soon get extra cold without sufficient tidal forces to move our
interior plus vast oceans of thermal energy about, as such we'd be icing
up really good, plus a few areas getting somewhat stinky at the same
time.

However, have I got nifty L1 shade for you:

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sc...=smart&p=1/360

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...25b2f50bea63b9
In addition to establishing a great deal of shade (perhaps a touch more
than necessary), we'd also have established the absolute ideal TRACE
outpost, as well as keeping the Chinese or possibly Russian LSE-CM/ISS
as 100% viable to boot (actually far better yet because of the moon's L1
becoming so nicely shaded, that even Bigalow's POOFs could be safely
utilized).

What's so terribly wrong, or even all that technically insurmountable
with my notions of relocating our very own cosmic morgue of a mascon, as
our nasty old salty and global warming moon, all the way out to Earth
L1?

Utilizing the tethered mass at 2X L2 seems like a perfectly good
alternative to using millions of spendy rockets (that we obviously don't
have or couldn't actually apply) or whatever nuclear produced delta-v,
especially since most every required tonne and of the tether itself
would be extracted from the moon itself.

Where's all of your warm and fuzzy Usenet yaysay and of whatever
wizardly applied expertise of eye popping candy, and otherwise on behalf
of knocking our socks off, especially when our badly failing environment
and extremely frail DNA needs such efforts the most?

What's all that negative or otherwise naysay about relocating our moon,
for obtaining such absolute spare loads of ice age rebuilding shade, and
of so much more to come?

Since we're into losing our DNA/RNA protective magnetosphere, at the
ongoing demise of 0.05%/year, as such, what other long-term options for
protecting Earth's atmosphere and of our sequestered butts on this badly
polluted surface do we have?
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG