Of all the worthless explanations

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 3:55:06 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Most of the people on
this group will have observed for themselves the effect of perspective on
the rings of Saturn. Anyone can see this using a small telescope.

Pah! Telescopes and magnification are the tools of Empiricists!

Real astronomers base their insights on unlabelled diagrams they find on the internet and misunderstood Youtube animations, while carefully avoiding looking at the night sky even with the naked eye in case Empirical results confuse them.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:14:30 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 3:47:47 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:

The entire planet turns to the central Sun including the polar latitude and the Equatorial rings and it is this surface rotation which combines with daily rotation to create the seasons and the variations in the natural noon cycle. The surface rotation is intrinsic to the planet itself and nothing to do with a line-of-sight notion with the Earth as the planet is 1,700,000,000 miles distant at the closest approach.

No, the axis of the planet points at Sabik at all times, just as the Earth's axis points at a spot near Polaris.

As Uranus moves around its orbit, its axis points at the Sun for part of its orbit because the Sun is between Uranus and Sabik at that time. Uranus then moves so that the Sun is no longer between Uranus and Sabik. The axis is no longer pointing at the Sun precisely because it does NOT turn - it still points at Sabik, now visible past the Sun.

Eventually Uranus gets to the far side of its orbit, and the South pole points at the Sun, precisely because the North pole still hasn't turned even a degree - it still points at Sabik.


You poor thing.

People either enjoy the dual surface rotations to the Sun or they don't for there is not pointing, there is just the slow and uneven surface rotation as a function of the orbital motion and the polar points provide a window into that surface rotation while daily rotation is entirely separate.

The polar surface points move across the fully illuminated face of the Earth like this over the course of an annual orbit -

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...precession.svg

There was an excuse for observers in other eras who didn't have time lapse footage to see these dual rotations directly but nowadays the presentation is so obvious and a testament to what both an imaging achievement and an individual achievement -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

The polar latitudes and Equatorial rings actually do turn to the central Sun as a function of the planet's orbital motion - 'eppure si muove'.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:21:35 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 3:55:06 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Most of the people on
this group will have observed for themselves the effect of perspective on
the rings of Saturn. Anyone can see this using a small telescope.

Pah! Telescopes and magnification are the tools of Empiricists!

Real astronomers base their insights on unlabelled diagrams they find on the internet and misunderstood Youtube animations, while carefully avoiding looking at the night sky even with the naked eye in case Empirical results confuse them.

Coming from a guy who really believes in 1465 rotations in 1461 days I wouldn't be too bothered. I consider the surface rotation behind the polar day/night cycle while you unfortunate people can't even manage the surface rotation behind the appearance of the Sun and stars each 24 hour day.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:17:05 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:
Goodness knows how you poor fools explain the appearance of the Sun at the Equinox at the North pole and its disappearance 6 months later at the September Equinox in terms of the polar day/night cycle and the surface rotation behind it.

In Ireland, it is covered in Geography, 5th and 6th class curriculum.

The lessons are probably a bit Empirical for you, since they emphasize measuring and recording facts as opposed to making up wild nonsense and then trawling the internet for pictures and animations that might seem to confirm it.

Strand Unit: Planet Earth in Space

The Earth and the sun

The child should be enabled to observe and record the positions of the sun when rising and setting and at different times of the day

Investigate the relative lengths and directions of shadows and the intensity of
sunlight at different times of the year

Observe the changing lengths of day and night during the seasons


The Earth, moon and solar system

Recognise that the Earth, its moon, the sun, other planets and their satellites are separate bodies and are parts of the solar system

Develop a simple understanding of the interrelationship of these bodies, including day and night and seasonal movements

Recognise a few of the major star constellations: the Great Bear and Pole Star, Orion.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:29:57 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:

The polar surface points move across the fully illuminated face of the Earth like this over the course of an annual orbit -

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...precession.svg


Firstly, that diagram is of Axial Precession, and the caption clearly states that it shows 26,000 years, not 1.

Secondly, if the axis was doing that in the course of a year, the North Pole could not point at Polaris all year round. It does, so you are wrong.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:44:12 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:17:05 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:
Goodness knows how you poor fools explain the appearance of the Sun at the Equinox at the North pole and its disappearance 6 months later at the September Equinox in terms of the polar day/night cycle and the surface rotation behind it.

In Ireland, it is covered in Geography, 5th and 6th class curriculum.

The lessons are probably a bit Empirical for you, since they emphasize measuring and recording facts as opposed to making up wild nonsense and then trawling the internet for pictures and animations that might seem to confirm it.


Don't be defensive, common sense is not something that all people have so normally intelligent people discern what is in front of them and especially in this matter of dual surface rotations -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

The Northern polar surface point will turn through the circle of illumination in a few weeks and move across the fully illuminated face of the planet just as the time lapse of Uranus demonstrates and applied to the graphic of the Earth -

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...precession.svg

Again, up close and personal or from a really great distance, the explanation still stands.

Of course you can live with that silly person from NASA who manages to tilt the circle of illumination to explain the same thing -

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=52248

Of course you believe the Earth rotates 1465 times in the 1461 days it takes the Earth to make 4 circuits of the Sun and there is no dignity or intelligence in that.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:50:59 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:29:57 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:

The polar surface points move across the fully illuminated face of the Earth like this over the course of an annual orbit -

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...precession.svg


Firstly, that diagram is of Axial Precession, and the caption clearly states that it shows 26,000 years, not 1.

Secondly, if the axis was doing that in the course of a year, the North Pole could not point at Polaris all year round. It does, so you are wrong.

Look, some people are just not up to the notion that the entire planet turns once to the central Sun and does so in an uneven way, the polar points are just a window into the orbital feature whereas daily rotation swamps that separate surface rotation to the Sun and to the circle of illumination.

The North/South poles are those points on the Earth's surface where the Sun appears once and disappears once over the course of an annual cycle and it is due to the orbital behavior of the Earth and not the behavior of some imagined axis. You really need to be a responsible adult to put all the pieces together and that is all.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 5:06:35 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:

Look, some people are just not up to the notion that the entire planet turns once to the central Sun and does so in an uneven way, the polar points are just a window into the orbital feature whereas daily rotation swamps that separate surface rotation to the Sun and to the circle of illumination.

We don't accept it because looking at Polaris proves it isn't true.

You would have to forget a good deal of your nonsense before you could understand this stuff as well as those 12 year old kids.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:57:35 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:

Of course you can live with that silly person from NASA who manages to tilt the circle of illumination to explain the same thing -

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=52248

Your total lack of spatial awareness makes you think an image with North at the top is somehow "hideous" and "silly". This must make reading maps unpleasant for you.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 5:17:28 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 5:06:35 PM UTC, oriel36 wrote:

Look, some people are just not up to the notion that the entire planet turns once to the central Sun and does so in an uneven way, the polar points are just a window into the orbital feature whereas daily rotation swamps that separate surface rotation to the Sun and to the circle of illumination..

We don't accept it because looking at Polaris proves it isn't true.


There is only one star you need to consider and that is our central star otherwise known as the Sun. From that point of view you get the circle of illumination and the orbital behavior of the Earth as the polar points (representing the entire surface) move across the fully illuminated face of the Earth and parallel to the orbital plane.

I didn't ask you what age you were in case there is some excuse there however for adults it is fairly straightforward in how a planet turns in two distinct ways to the central Sun.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=52248

If you are too young then I suggest you go to the thread where there is a profound discussion on how you pronounce the grouping of individual stars.



You would have to forget a good deal of your nonsense before you could understand this stuff as well as those 12 year old kids.