Ronald Reagan mostly responsible for the space shuttle challenger tragedy. Gotta beat those Ruskies

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:

Herb Schaltegger wrote:

Not only wrong, Derek, but likely lying again. An E-1 in the Air Force
is an Airman Basic (e.g., no stripes; equivalent to a buck private in
the Army or Marines). Upon graduation from Basic Training, an airman is
nearly always elevated to E-2 (Airman; one stripe). If she had that
kind of stuff happen to her, as she claims, then it happened during
Basic and not during "real" duty or service. If, in fact, she was *not*
promoted to E-2 upon graduation from Basic, then she was an outright
screw-up.


Hey...hey...hey...you'd be surprised at who was honorably discharged
from the USAF at the rank of E-1, Airman Basic...really surprised.... :-D

Pat Flannery
Airman Basic, Regular Air Force (ret.)

I think perhaps, Pat, that your sense of humor was wasted on superiors
in uniform . . . ;-)

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
Columbia Loss FAQ:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:37:12 -0400, "Scott Hedrick"
wrote:

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
. com...
DEREK, where did you get your military training?

Where did you get yours?

...Watching reruns of "McHale's Navy Joins The Air Force", obviously.


OM

AH! Thanks for explaining. :-)

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...
(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:
DEREK, where did you get your military training? (Hopefully you're
just a civilian who THINKS he knows about the military.)

Started at Boot Camp in Orlando (Dec 1981-Jan 1982) and continued for
nine odd years thereafter. When I was discharged TTF Bangor in 1991 I
was an E-5.

It does NOT depend "on who gave the order and who is trying to
override the order." You FOLLOW THE ORDER!

Yes. It does. Maybe an E-1 in the Air Force is expected to be an
robot, but that's not the whole of the military.

Now, I'm just a lowly E-1 in this picture, remember? So chances are
good Lt. So-and-So did not give me the reasons for this order, he just
gave it to me. Right? If YOU are correct, Derek, I should decide
that the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces knows a WHOLE lot more
about the military than I do, and probably a lot more than Lt.
So-and-So, so I should cave (according to you) and allow Clinton
across.

Actually, I never said you should cave. I said that what happens
depends on circumstances. You seem to have a problem understanding
issues that are not black and white.

D.

OK, given the explanation(s) I've seen from you in the past 30 minutes
(and STOP calling people liars when they are not lying): You
supposedly made E-4 by the end of boot camp, yet nine years later you
were only an E-5. I'm not sure which part of this story to laugh at
first! And, don't lecture me about the Navy; my father was career,
and he didn't spend his career waiting for the "coveted" E-7; he
attained it and more. Blow smoke up a civilian's behind; don't waste
my time blowing smoke up mine when it's clear you are full of it.
LaDonna

Jonathan Silverlight wrote in message ...
In message , Derek Lyons
writes
(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:
DEREK, where did you get your military training? (Hopefully you're
just a civilian who THINKS he knows about the military.)

Started at Boot Camp in Orlando (Dec 1981-Jan 1982) and continued for
nine odd years thereafter. When I was discharged TTF Bangor in 1991 I
was an E-5.

It does NOT depend "on who gave the order and who is trying to
override the order." You FOLLOW THE ORDER!

Yes. It does. Maybe an E-1 in the Air Force is expected to be an
robot, but that's not the whole of the military.

You have to admire her sheer gall, pontificating about the nature of
legal orders and not knowing the credentials of some of the regulars,
but keep it simple for us non-military and non-US types. What's an E-1,
and what does TTF mean ? Just curious.

I didn't use "TTF"; an E-1 is the first enlisted paygrade. Depending
on your branch of service, that makes you a seaman, an airman, a
private, etc. E-1 is universal because you don't have to know the
branch of service in order to refer to the person's paygrade.
As for "the credentials of some of the regulars", PLEASE. Next thing
you know Derek will have been the one who single-handedly won Midway.
LaDonna

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...
(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:
DEREK, where did you get your military training? (Hopefully you're
just a civilian who THINKS he knows about the military.)

Started at Boot Camp in Orlando (Dec 1981-Jan 1982) and continued for
nine odd years thereafter. When I was discharged TTF Bangor in 1991 I
was an E-5.

It does NOT depend "on who gave the order and who is trying to
override the order." You FOLLOW THE ORDER!

Yes. It does. Maybe an E-1 in the Air Force is expected to be an
robot, but that's not the whole of the military.

Now, I'm just a lowly E-1 in this picture, remember? So chances are
good Lt. So-and-So did not give me the reasons for this order, he just
gave it to me. Right? If YOU are correct, Derek, I should decide
that the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces knows a WHOLE lot more
about the military than I do, and probably a lot more than Lt.
So-and-So, so I should cave (according to you) and allow Clinton
across.

Actually, I never said you should cave. I said that what happens
depends on circumstances. You seem to have a problem understanding
issues that are not black and white.

D.

By the way, I just happen to be in one of those moods today; I've got
all kinds of things going on, many of which are rather complicated at
the moment, so I just feel like being onery, so here goes. Since what
started out as a conversation on military protocol (with the point
being Challenger) has turned into a pi**ing match, how about this: My
father received numerous citations and medals, including the Bronze
Star (and I DO have his military records; if you need "verifiable
references" I know someone who I will be seeing early next week who
I'm sure wouldn't have a problem scanning and posting the relevant
documents if you just HAVE to see them). Question: What did the Navy
give you, besides the boot? :-)
LaDonna
P.S. Actually, the military IS rather black-and-white. The fact you
don't see that is what makes me question whether you ever walked BY a
military installation, much less served on one (and I TRULY hope you
didn't.)

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
TTF means Trident Training Facility, TTF Bangor refers to the TTF here
at SUBASE Bangor as opposed to the TTF at SUBASE King's Bay.

TTF Bangor = freeze ass off
TTF King's Bay = sun & fun

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
m...
(and STOP calling people liars when they are not lying)

When you stop lying, we'll stop calling you a liar.

If it bothers you, you can run away. Betty misses you.

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Since what
started out as a conversation on military protocol (with the point
being Challenger) has turned into a pi**ing match

If you don't start it, it won't happen.

Let's see your credentials. Are you ashamed of your "career", such as it
was?

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
I served
in the Air Force 1978-1982. After Lackland was Biloxi, then Omaha, NE

Careful- you might slip up and provide something verifiable.

As for fantasy
land, if you think people under orders are supposed to "use
initiative", then you don't know the first blinking thing about the
military.

Not the military you served in. I'm more familiar with United States
military forces.

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:
As for fantasy land, if you think people under orders are
supposed to "use initiative", then you don't know the first
blinking thing about the military. NOTHING.

Right. Which is why the literature of the Cold War (especially in the
1980's) went to great lengths to tout that our great strength was the
initiative of our junior officers and enlisted, and the robotic
structure of the USSR's armed forces was described as a great
weakness.

As evidenced by their preference for automated docking systems.

Nope. It was because of the unique circumstances of where and when I
was in. If you have the balls drop over the sci.military.naval and
raise both the issues of obeying orders and the issue of advancement
in the SWS rates in the 1980's.

First, Betty has her balls. Second, if she thinks she has it rough here,
let's see her copy some of her statements about following orders in
sci.military.naval and see how long she lasts.

If it weren't against protocol, I'd start cross-posting her nonsense there.