Neutron Star Inside Red Giant

Now this is interesting!

http://www.nature.com/news/bizarre-s...s-core-1.14478

When Type-II SNae blow off their envelopes, what remains at the center? An ultracompact object.

Now an ultracompact object has been found inside a red giant BEFORE it goes SN.

Can anyone connect the dots?

Can anyone identify the cosmological paradigm that predicted this?

On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 2:43:30 AM UTC-5, Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:
Now an ultracompact object has been found inside a red giant BEFORE it goes SN.

Can anyone identify the cosmological paradigm that predicted this?

The article says who predicted it: Thorne & Zytkow in 1975 (ApJL 199 L19).

It's quite possible to form these objects from binary star systems. One of the binary pair goes supernova first, forms a neutron star (or black hole), and then the compact object is captured by the remaining star after further stellar evolution. There's nothing "cosmological" about it, other than the possible time scales involved.

References
1. T&Z 1975: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1975ApJ...199L..19T

In article , "Robert L.
Oldershaw" writes:

Now this is interesting!


http://www.nature.com/news/bizarre-s...s-core-1.14478

When Type-II SNae blow off their envelopes, what remains at the
center? An ultracompact object.

Now an ultracompact object has been found inside a red giant BEFORE it
goes SN.

Can anyone connect the dots?

Can anyone identify the cosmological paradigm that predicted this?

Sure. I remember this being discussed when I was listening to lectures
on stellar structure and evolution by Sjur Refsdal almost a quarter of a
century ago. The core is so compact compared to the stuff around it
that one can basically neglect the whispy stuff. In other words,
something standard stellar-structure-and-evolution theory predicted long
ago. Yes, it's interesting that it is now being observed, but that's
about it. In other words, it CONFIRMS the "paradigm" of standard
stellar-structure-and-evolution theory.

On Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:07:23 AM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
In article , "Robert L.


If T-Z, CM and PH are correct, then ultracompacts at the centers of
stars will be a rare phenomenon.

DSR, on the other hand, hand predicts that ultracompact core objects
(or their excited counterparts) will be found in every star, planetary
nebula and planet with M =/ M(Neptune).

You say: impossible!

I say: just sit back and watch because it may take a while to overcome an astronomical amount of intellectual inertia.

A good place to start would involve catching stars just before they go
supernova and looking for indications of a pre-existing central
ultracompact object.

Red dwarfs have some unusual properties (unexpected flare and X-ray
phenomena, conflicts with magnetic fields in "fully convective stars",
jets, etc.)

Proto-stars and H-H objects with their huge narrow jets are ripe for
interpretation in terms of hidden ultracompact objects, once the bias
against this concept ebbs.

Smile on and remember that if science does not evolve, it fossilizes.

In article , "Robert L.
Oldershaw" writes:

DSR, on the other hand, hand predicts that ultracompact core objects
(or their excited counterparts) will be found in every star, planetary
nebula and planet with M =/ M(Neptune).

Has this been predicted before you learned of this recent observational
development?

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 6:31:43 AM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
In article , "Robert L.
Oldershaw" writes:

DSR, on the other hand, hand predicts that ultracompact core objects

(or their excited counterparts) will be found in every star, planetary

nebula and planet with M =/ M(Neptune).



Has this been predicted before you learned of this recent observational

development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Definitely!

(1) You can see this in the 15 definitive predictions available he
http://www.academia.edu/2917630/Pred...ale_Relativity
...

(2) These predictions also appear in many places at
http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw . See the Selected Papers section
for published predictions, especially papers #1 and #2.

(3) Those who have at least a working knowledge of DSR understand that
these predictions are intrinsic to DSR. They are mandatory
requirements of the fundamental principles of the paradigm.

Hope this helps.

RLO

Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:
On Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:07:23 AM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
DSR, on the other hand, hand predicts that ultracompact core objects
(or their excited counterparts) will be found in every star, planetary
nebula and planet with M =/ M(Neptune).
[[...]]

A good place to start would involve catching stars just before they go
supernova and looking for indications of a pre-existing central
ultracompact object.

Catching stars just before they go supernova is (alas) very hard:
supernova are very rare, so you'd have to monitor a HUGE number of stars
to get a reasonable chance of finding (say) a supernova every year or so.

There are a number of supernova searches which work by monitoring many
galaxies, looking for supernova. But their pre-supernova observatious
don't reach down to anywhere near the faintness or angular resolution
needed to get useful data on individual pre-supernova stars.

--
-- "Jonathan Thornburg [remove -animal to reply]"
Dept of Astronomy & IUCSS, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA
"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched
at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police
plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable
that they watched everybody all the time." -- George Orwell, "1984"

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 4:31:31 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Thornburg [remove -animal to reply] wrote:


Catching stars just before they go supernova is (alas) very hard:

supernova are very rare, so you'd have to monitor a HUGE number of stars

to get a reasonable chance of finding (say) a supernova every year or so.



There are a number of supernova searches which work by monitoring many

galaxies, looking for supernova. But their pre-supernova observatious

don't reach down to anywhere near the faintness or angular resolution

needed to get useful data on individual pre-supernova stars.


Thanks Jonathan. I am in full agreement with your comments, but I
might concentrate on the idea that we still do not understand SN very
well, in terms of why they go SN and exactly how the explosion
initiates and evolves.

Still, the history of science is littered with problems that were
thought to be unsolvable but were eventually solved by observational
breakthroughs that were not fully anticipated. Someday we might
discover some signature of an impending SN and thus be able to study
these pre-SN stars more carefully.

A more hopeful approach is looking at the much more common phenomena
of star formation and protostars. I think these processes are
nucleated by ultracompacts. We have trouble resolving what is going on
deep in the interior of the collapsing region, but this research seems
ripe for progress.

Speculative? Yes, but there is always hope.

Rob

Den torsdag den 9. januar 2014 08.03.10 UTC+1 skrev :
On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 2:43:30 AM UTC-5, Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:

Now an ultracompact object has been found inside a red giant BEFORE it goes SN.


It's quite possible to form these objects from binary star systems.
One of the binary pair goes supernova first, forms a neutron star
(or black hole), and then the compact object is captured by the
remaining star after further stellar evolution. There's nothing
"cosmological" about it, other than the possible time scales
involved.


If the neutron star is inside the red giant, how much material does it
sweep up every day ?

It will obviously collect enough to go supernova or at least nova.

That must blow the giant apart or at least cause something like a
planetaty nebula. Does any of the hard-to-explain nebulas fit with
that ?

Or wasn't there something about two supernovas occuring in the same
place, some years apart ? This could be such a thing.

Regards

Carsten Nielsen
Denmark

[Mod. note: reformatted -- mjh]

On Friday, January 17, 2014 2:56:16 AM UTC-5, Carsten Nielsen Denmark wrote:
Den torsdag den 9. januar 2014 08.03.10 UTC+1 skrev :


That must blow the giant apart or at least cause something like a

planetaty nebula. Does any of the hard-to-explain nebulas fit with

that ?

---------------------------------------------

When planetary nebulae form, the red giant loses only its outer
envelopes and a white dwarf, or related compact star, is revealed at
the center.

If there is an ultracompact object at the center of the exposed white
dwarf we would have to wait for a supernova event before it would be
exposed.

The intriguing shapes planetary nebulae are very suggestive.

RLO