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Here it is: the real impact of global warming



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 26th 18, 06:50 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard
  #2  
Old November 26th 18, 10:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
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Posts: 1,076
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Monday, 26 November 2018 12:50:03 UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard


Yes, "thousands" may die. Meanwhile, every winter, cold kills about 3 million more people than would die without it. Good luck matching that, global warming. Have your had your flu shot?
  #3  
Old November 27th 18, 12:36 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:40:18 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

On Monday, 26 November 2018 12:50:03 UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard


Yes, "thousands" may die. Meanwhile, every winter, cold kills about 3 million more people than would die without it. Good luck matching that, global warming. Have your had your flu shot?


The main problem with climate change isn't deaths caused by
temperature (although extreme cold is not the most dangerous, while
extreme heat is... meaning that warming will disproportionately
increase heat related deaths compared with cold related deaths).

The problem isn't a few thousand more dying from heat. It's millions
more dying from floods and lack of water and starvation and resource
wars.
  #4  
Old November 27th 18, 12:46 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
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Posts: 732
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 9:50:03 AM UTC-8, Quadibloc wrote:
An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard


Gee, 10 kids/ family average over there, and some how miscarriages the problem now?
  #5  
Old November 27th 18, 04:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 10:50:03 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is
doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard


climate change "might be" to blame, the reason for this "they believe"
is climate change? C'mon, John, that's not science.

But to the point of AGW:

(1) That the earth's temperature has been rising isn't a forgone prediction
that it will continue to do so. There are several factors not considered
in the climate models (e.g., the effect of solar wind on cloud formation
which affects the earth's albedo).

(2) That the rise in CO2 levels are correlated with the temperature rise
doesn't mean that one is causing the other. The meanest and nastiest
greenhouse gas is water vapor, and it increases with temperature REGARDLESS
of what causes the temperature increase. The interactive calculator,
modtran, demonstrates that doubling CO2 level from the present value has
a modest 1.1° C rise in temperature, and that INCLUDES the feedback effect
of water vapor. A 20% increase in water vapor has the same effect as
DOUBLING the CO2 level which, at the present rate of 2 ppm/year, will take
200 years to accomplish. So the effect due to CO2 amounts to .005° C/year.
If the earth is warming faster than that, intelligent people would
entertain other reasons.

Gary
  #6  
Old November 27th 18, 04:58 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:27:08 -0800 (PST), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 10:50:03 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is
doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard


climate change "might be" to blame, the reason for this "they believe"
is climate change? C'mon, John, that's not science.

But to the point of AGW:


Oh please. Give the pseudoscientific crap a rest. You are profoundly
ignorant and driven by a combination of religious and political
dogmatism. You are incapable of reasoning. You are a part of the human
race that is leading us to extinction. People who think as you do are
the core problem facing the future. You will be gone, or we will all
be gone.
  #7  
Old November 27th 18, 11:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 8:58:18 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:27:08 -0800 (PST), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 10:50:03 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

An article on the BBC illustrates the kind of thing global warming is
doing to people:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550

John Savard


climate change "might be" to blame, the reason for this "they believe"
is climate change? C'mon, John, that's not science.

But to the point of AGW:


Oh please. Give the pseudoscientific crap a rest. You are profoundly
ignorant and driven by a combination of religious and political
dogmatism. You are incapable of reasoning. You are a part of the human
race that is leading us to extinction. People who think as you do are
the core problem facing the future. You will be gone, or we will all
be gone.


And YOU are a climate groupie who doen't understand the first thing about
the models but arrogantly denounces anyone who questions the Climate Gods
whom you worship with YOUR dogmatism.

And you dishonesty is evident by the fact that you deleted the discussion
of the facts so you could rant and rave about "extinction" and have it
not appear to be sheer stupidity. TWO HUNDRED YEARS to double the CO2
level and produce a whopping 1.1 degree increase! But the COGENT question
is why would an atheist who believes civilization is doomed anyway care
about AGW to go to such a point as to attack an individual who isn't causing
the supposed CO2 catastrophe in the first place? Are you really quaking
in your boots with fear that I could change the course of a civilization
that you have no hope for anyway?

Why don't you try to be a decent human being instead of an insufferably
arrogant prosecutor?

“Ignorance and weakness is not an impediment to survival. Arrogance is.”
― Cixin Liu
  #8  
Old November 28th 18, 02:10 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 3:42:50 PM UTC-7, Gary Harnagel wrote:

And YOU are a climate groupie who doen't understand the first thing about
the models but arrogantly denounces anyone who questions the Climate Gods
whom you worship with YOUR dogmatism.


He certainly doesn't help matters by coming across as someone who plans to line
you up against the wall when the revolution comes.

However, by continuing to defend the false, and well-known to be false,
proposition that AGW is not based on genuine and valid science, and that
opposition to it is worth taking seriously, the only people you will manage to
impress are the ignorant.

There are dishonest people, many of them in the pay of oil companies, who don't
mind that, because - as the current inhabitant of the White House proves -
ignorant people can vote too.

While science is not infallible, and so there is a need for vigilance against
mistakes, in the case of global warming, the science _is_ sufficiently well
established that categorizing its opponents as either deliberately dishonest on
the one hand, or stupid or at least ignorant on the other... however impolite it
may seem, is basically an accurate characterization of the actual situation.

Sure, citing facts and figures is a better mode of argument than name-calling.
But sometimes it's not worth the time and effort. Especially when facts and
figures *are* put forward, and they don't seem to have an effect.

John Savard
  #9  
Old November 28th 18, 02:58 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 6:10:45 PM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 3:42:50 PM UTC-7, Gary Harnagel wrote:

And YOU are a climate groupie who doen't understand the first thing about
the models but arrogantly denounces anyone who questions the Climate Gods
whom you worship with YOUR dogmatism.


He certainly doesn't help matters by coming across as someone who plans
to line you up against the wall when the revolution comes.

However, by continuing to defend the false, and well-known to be false,
proposition that AGW is not based on genuine and valid science, and that
opposition to it is worth taking seriously, the only people you will
manage to impress are the ignorant.


So my son-in-law who is a soil scientist is ignorant, as well as his father
who taught soil science for decades. So my other son-in-law who has a
degree in agriculture is ignorant. So my cousins who are farmers and also
have degrees in agriculture are ignorant? They came to these conclusions
independently on their own. Your denigration of the people on the front
lines as opposed to those in their ivory towers is remarkable.

There are dishonest people, many of them in the pay of oil companies,
who don't mind that, because - as the current inhabitant of the White
House proves - ignorant people can vote too.


And now you're denigrating the people on the front lines again. Sure,
there are dishonest people EVERYWHERE, and some of them hold executive
positions in climate science. They make sure their underlings tow the
party line.

While science is not infallible, and so there is a need for vigilance
against mistakes, in the case of global warming, the science _is_
sufficiently well established that categorizing its opponents as either
deliberately dishonest on the one hand, or stupid or at least ignorant
on the other... however impolite it may seem, is basically an accurate
characterization of the actual situation.


You should move in with Peterson.

Sure, citing facts and figures is a better mode of argument than name-
calling. But sometimes it's not worth the time and effort. Especially
when facts and figures *are* put forward, and they don't seem to have
an effect.

John Savard


Exactly what you and Peterson are doing: ignoring facts.

"(1) That the earth's temperature has been rising isn't a forgone prediction
that it will continue to do so. There are several factors not considered
in the climate models (e.g., the effect of solar wind on cloud formation
which affects the earth's albedo).

"(2) That the rise in CO2 levels are correlated with the temperature rise
doesn't mean that one is causing the other. The meanest and nastiest
greenhouse gas is water vapor, and it increases with temperature REGARDLESS
of what causes the temperature increase. The interactive calculator,
modtran, demonstrates that doubling CO2 level from the present value has
a modest 1.1° C rise in temperature, and that INCLUDES the feedback effect
of water vapor. A 20% increase in water vapor has the same effect as
DOUBLING the CO2 level which, at the present rate of 2 ppm/year, will take
200 years to accomplish. So the effect due to CO2 amounts to .005° C/year.
If the earth is warming faster than that, intelligent people would
entertain other reasons."

I'm not interested in having a "discussion" about this any more than
you or Peterson are. Modtran is a well-respected atmospheric model and
it refutes all the AGW alarmist poppycock. It is so well-respected
that it stands head-and-shoulders above the climate models and its
alarmist groupies. If you are so self-satisfied that your position is
incontrovertible, then maybe you should revisit Cixin Liu's pronouncement.
Refusing to honestly consider alternatives when the mainstream model
predictions don't agree with the sanity check model is arrogance.

“To hate being wrong is to change your opinion when you are
proven wrong; whereas pride, even when proven wrong, decides
to go on being wrong.” ― Criss Jami
  #10  
Old November 28th 18, 05:37 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Here it is: the real impact of global warming

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 6:58:08 PM UTC-7, Gary Harnagel wrote:
Modtran is a well-respected atmospheric model and
it refutes all the AGW alarmist poppycock. It is so well-respected
that it stands head-and-shoulders above the climate models and its
alarmist groupies.


First thing I did was try to find out what Modtran was:

https://andthentheresphysics.wordpre...10/25/modtran/

An amateur tried to use Modtran to check AGW, and did not get a refutation.
That, of course, doesn't prove anything.

Ah, here we are. Not the author of MODTRAN, but someone who wrote a web
interface to it, writes the following page:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...for-deception/

If, therefore, it is that particular fellow from Australia you're using as a
source, it shows that you're allowing yourself to be fooled. Who do you want to
believe: people who know what they're talking about, and are widely recognized
as such, or the people who say what you want to hear?

John Savard
 




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