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asteroid close approach, 2011 Nov 08



 
 
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  #292  
Old December 18th 11, 06:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default asteroid close approach, 2011 Nov 08

On Dec 17, 11:56*am, "Androcles" .
2011 wrote:

Kelleher wouldn't know SoHo (South Hoboken) from Soho, London.



Well,if it isn't Mr 'two-sticks-in-the-ground'.

For those who can get serious,the proper references are dynamical and
not simply daily rotation to an external object be it stars in stellar
circumpolar motion or our central star.It is known for 500 years that
daily and orbital motions are in combination with the latter variable
in speed so there is no possible way to isolate daily rotation as an
independent motion that way.

So,there are roughly 365 1/4 rotations of the Earth for one orbital
circuit of the Earth around the central Sun with this insight
originally existing as the proportion of days to years,in this case
1461 days close enough to 4 years.Embracing the dynamical reference of
an orbital circuit for the number of daily rotations effectively puts
all matters on a better footing and avoids this Right ascension with
its odd 366 1/4 rotations for an orbital circuit.

The attempt to model planetary dynamics using watches in the late 17th
century is analogous to modeling climate with computers,the difference
being that the latter is merely a symptom of the former attempt as
this is where all the damage was done,specifically the misuse of the
predictive convenience of the calendar based Ra/Dec system as a bridge
to experimental sciences.In an era where a Sun-synchronos satellite
picks up the orbital turning of the polar coordinates beneath it,an
explanation obliquely assigned to the spherical devaition of the
planet,so much valuable information is lost or blockaged
unnecessarily.

I am here in this gorgeous part of the world,noticed this morning the
difference in daylight/darkness asymmetry in SoCal with the Northern
isles of Europe and the more abrupt appearance of daylight from
darkness here as I am traveling with a greater speed at these
latitudes nearer the Equator.I looked at the observations of Plutarch
and his contemporaries and they are so full of astronomical life and
this even without the observations provided by contemporary imaging
power and I do stop to think why people would knowingly permit the
idea that the Earth turns 366 1/4 times for an orbital circuit when
all their senses will ever know is 365 1/4 or the more familiar 1461
rotations in the 1461 days of the calendar system.

Despite all the linguistic gymnastics of relativity,after all it is an
expansion of right ascension ideology which Isaac first used,people
will find their way back to astronomy once more and all those things
you think are trivia turn out to be the most important things of all.




  #293  
Old December 18th 11, 09:06 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default asteroid close approach, 2011 Nov 08

On Dec 18, 9:41*am, oriel36 wrote:

I am here in this gorgeous part of the world,noticed this morning the
difference in daylight/darkness asymmetry in SoCal with the Northern
isles of Europe and the more abrupt appearance of daylight from
darkness here *as I am traveling with a greater speed at these
latitudes nearer the Equator


The more abrupt appearance (and disappearance) of daylight is mostly
due to the fact that the sun is more perpendicular to the horizon from
here than it is from the Northern isles of Europe, and the length of
time from darkness to the sunrise (or sunset) is strictly a function
of the sun's distance below that horizon. The Sun moving at a lower
angle (in the north) means that it will take longer to get far enough
below the horizon to achieve darkness than it does here in SoCal. You
are giving the greater speed at latitude too much value; after all, it
is much more correct to reference the Earth's rotation to its angular
velocity, which is the same at all latitudes, rather than the varying
speeds at different latitudes, that is just the hard way to do things.

\Paul A

\Paul A
  #294  
Old January 21st 12, 10:57 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Robert Miles
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Default asteroid close approach, 2011 Nov 08

On 12/16/2011 3:02 PM, oriel36 wrote:
On Dec 16, 2:59 pm, Chris L wrote:

Society suffers when its members are irrational (as is so apparent
today).


I have spent the best part of 8 months looking for a person who does
not adhere to the idea that there are 1465 rotations in 1461 days and
have failed to find a single individual willing to support the
inviolate proportion of rotations per circuit which amount to 365 1/4
to 1 orbital circuit and 1461 rotations/days to 4 orbital circuits/4
years.

So irrational !,few have an idea just what that actually means in
today's world but I can tell what that nightmare is.


That's to be expected when you assume that everyone in the world
shares your idea of the reference point for measuring rotations
but you never mention what your reference point is so that others
can tell you if they agree with that reference point or not.

Those who assume that the reference point is the position of the
sun will not agree with those who assume that it is the position
of the fixed stars.

  #295  
Old January 21st 12, 11:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default asteroid close approach, 2011 Nov 08

On Jan 21, 9:57*pm, Robert Miles wrote:
On 12/16/2011 3:02 PM, oriel36 wrote:

On Dec 16, 2:59 pm, Chris L *wrote:


Society suffers when its members are irrational (as is so apparent
today).


I have spent the best part of 8 months looking for a person who does
not adhere to the idea that there are 1465 rotations in 1461 days and
have failed to find a single individual willing to support the
inviolate proportion of rotations per circuit which amount to 365 1/4
to 1 orbital circuit and 1461 rotations/days to 4 orbital circuits/4
years.


So irrational !,few have an idea just what that actually means in
today's world but I can tell what that nightmare is.


That's to be expected when you assume that everyone in the world
shares your idea of the reference point for measuring rotations
but you never mention what your reference point is so that others
can tell you if they agree with that reference point or not.


The primary reference is the 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits,the
secondary reference is natural noon where the variations in length of
that cycle is averaged to 24 hours hence the conversion of days/years
into rotation/orbital cycles.The process of conversion is complicated
yet not so complex that you cannot put the 24 hours of Feb 29th as a
rotation of the Earth and all its effects as the 1461st rotation that
began March 1st 2008.You don't need a clock to know there are 1461
days in 4 years as the Egyptians knew that a steady stream of 365 days
would see their festivals drift through the solstice/equinox points
hence they instituted the system we use today and badly misuse -

" on account of the precession of the rising of the Divine Sothis by
one day in the course of 4 years.. therefore it shall be, that the
year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day as
feast of Benevolent Gods [the pharaoh and family] be from this day
after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year,
whereby all men shall learn, that what was a little defective in the
order as regards the seasons and the year, as also the opinions which
are contained in the rules of the learned on the heavenly orbits, are
now corrected and improved.." Canopus Decree

The fundamental unit of time is the main proportion between days and
years for dividing the proportion 1461 rotation by 4 year/orbits will
give 365 1/4 days/rotations to 4 years/orbital cycles whereas
contemporaries try to start with 365 1/4 days to build the system from
there leading to the awful imbalance of 1465 rotations in 4 years.


Those who assume that the reference point is the position of the
sun will not agree with those who assume that it is the position
of the fixed stars.


Anyone can read the rotation of the Earth out of a daily temperature
legend where the daily rising and falling temperatures respond to the
rotation of the Earth as it happens 1461 times in 4 years with Feb
29th being the final rotation that closes out 4 orbital circuits -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5128581

There is indeed a great deal of complexity is converting the days/
years to rotations/orbital circuits but there is none in reading and
interpreting something as familiar as daytime highs and nighttime lows
which deal with daily rotation as an independent motion,that goes for
the experts as much as for the novices.

I have noticed this week how unsure everyone was in approach any type
of leap correction and especially the ridiculous 'leap second '
correction yet nothing is clearer than the Feb 29th correction and the
separateness of daily and orbital motions.

Everyone deserves a second chance and that is the way I would like to
leave things.



  #296  
Old January 22nd 12, 08:44 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
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Posts: 2,410
Default asteroid close approach, 2011 Nov 08

On Jan 21, 11:43*pm, verbal o'diarrhoea smudged his favourite crayon:

Everyone deserves [1461] second chances


Thick as a brick.
 




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