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Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 1st 08, 05:09 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif

Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.

Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.

Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.

In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.

Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).

Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth
  #2  
Old June 1st 08, 04:45 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif

Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.

Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.

Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.

In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.

Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).

Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth


Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.

It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.

The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.

However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.

It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.

Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.

What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)

Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth
  #3  
Old June 4th 08, 02:41 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

Apparently the DARPA mainstream status quo isn't allowed to ponder as
to whatever smacked into our moon South Pole, as having created that
absolutely horrific though shallow Aitken Basin.

Any hope of running off those really good 3D interactive supercomputer
simulations is taboo/nondisclosure rated, as though there's something
to hide. Same goes for the planet Venus and the Sirius stat/solar
system is absolutely off-limits, whereas tidal forces and a good many
other laws of physics simply do not apply. Go figure, as to why is
JAXA/Selene has been sequestered in the nearest DARPA/NASA space-
toilet.
. - . Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth


On Jun 1, 8:45 am, BradGuth wrote:
On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:



Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif


Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.


Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.


Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.


In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.


Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).


Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth


Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.

It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.

The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.

However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.

It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.

Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.

What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)

Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth


  #4  
Old June 6th 08, 02:04 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

Perhaps our spendy public supercomputers are better used for
simulating live smut, rather than upon real observed formations and of
those likely interactions of planets and icy proto-moons, especially
of any such tidal interactions between nearby stars that are still if
not forever associated with one another, one of which being an
impressive binary star system as having somewhat recently lost 4+
solar mass in addition to having lost its tidal grip on any number of
its planets and planetoid/moon like items.
Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth


On Jun 4, 6:41 am, BradGuth wrote:
Apparently the DARPA mainstream status quo isn't allowed to ponder as
to whatever smacked into our moon South Pole, as having created that
absolutely horrific though shallow Aitken Basin.

Any hope of running off those really good 3D interactive supercomputer
simulations is taboo/nondisclosure rated, as though there's something
to hide. Same goes for the planet Venus and the Sirius stat/solar
system is absolutely off-limits, whereas tidal forces and a good many
other laws of physics simply do not apply. Go figure, as to why is
JAXA/Selene has been sequestered in the nearest DARPA/NASA space-
toilet.
. - . Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

On Jun 1, 8:45 am, BradGuth wrote:

On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:


Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif


Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.


Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.


Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.


In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.


Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).


Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth


Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.


It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.


The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.


However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.


It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.


Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.


What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)


Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth


  #5  
Old June 7th 08, 06:01 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

Newsgroups DARPA wants nothing to do with this topic. Figures,
doesn't it.

Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth



On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif

Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.

Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.

Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.

In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.

Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).

Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth


  #6  
Old June 7th 08, 06:54 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
josephus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

BradGuth wrote:
On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif

Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.

Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.

Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.

In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.

Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).

Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth


Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.

It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.

The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.

However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.

It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.

Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.

What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)

Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth



let me ask you about what celestial mechanics is at it heart?
mathematics is considered the queen of the sciences and she does not
deign to relate to reality. but celestial mechanics is a very
specialized kind of physics , a shirtsleeves approximation.
mathematicians either wreck their ships on that rock or else avoid it
like the plague... but it is all about describing the motion of
objects. Newton was a twit, but a genius mathematical twit. I would
accept being as crazy and religiosity burned as Newton but I am not and
I cannot do the kind of mathematical reasoning he could do. he unified
physics and mathematics. so well that it took 250 years to determine
how he was wrong if at all. but he offered problems related to your
thesis of a interloper moon. he considered the question of a limits of
calculations. Roche looked at the same calculus and noted that beyond
a certain radius (having to do with the mass of the primary) the
interloper would be shattered. ( this same theory predicts things
like Saturn's rings.) it all relates to the question of can a moon
approach any significant body and not be shattered? Saturn says no.


so the integral of ( c^2 * (2/r -1/a) ) has to do with the curvature of
space. a technical Roche limit says there is a joint mass with a
distance proportional to that mass the should any TWO masses approach
the lesser and even the primary would be broken up.

Brad describes the moon like a fractured billiard ball. it is fluid
and fragile compared to a billiard ball. at planetary scales
asteroids, moons planets and stars are all fluid. and that is why the
largest are spherical.

all these physical facts specifically indicate the Brad Guth is
talking through his hat.


josephus
--
I go sailing in the summer
and look at stars in the winter,
"Everybody is ignorant but on
different subjects"
--Will Rogers
Its not what you know
that gets you in trouble
its what you know that ain so.
--josh billings.
  #7  
Old June 7th 08, 08:59 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

On Jun 6, 10:54 pm, josephus wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif


Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.


Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.


Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.


In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.


Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).


Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth


Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.


It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.


The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.


However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.


It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.


Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.


What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)


Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth


let me ask you about what celestial mechanics is at it heart?
mathematics is considered the queen of the sciences and she does not
deign to relate to reality. but celestial mechanics is a very
specialized kind of physics , a shirtsleeves approximation.
mathematicians either wreck their ships on that rock or else avoid it
like the plague... but it is all about describing the motion of
objects. Newton was a twit, but a genius mathematical twit. I would
accept being as crazy and religiosity burned as Newton but I am not and
I cannot do the kind of mathematical reasoning he could do. he unified
physics and mathematics. so well that it took 250 years to determine
how he was wrong if at all. but he offered problems related to your
thesis of a interloper moon. he considered the question of a limits of
calculations. Roche looked at the same calculus and noted that beyond
a certain radius (having to do with the mass of the primary) the
interloper would be shattered. ( this same theory predicts things
like Saturn's rings.) it all relates to the question of can a moon
approach any significant body and not be shattered? Saturn says no.


The planet Jupiter says yes, and even within the Saturn rings are
items going bump or lithobraking in the night, so to speak, without
their shattering to bits.


so the integral of ( c^2 * (2/r -1/a) ) has to do with the curvature of
space. a technical Roche limit says there is a joint mass with a
distance proportional to that mass the should any TWO masses approach
the lesser and even the primary would be broken up.

Brad describes the moon like a fractured billiard ball. it is fluid
and fragile compared to a billiard ball. at planetary scales
asteroids, moons planets and stars are all fluid. and that is why the
largest are spherical.

all these physical facts specifically indicate the Brad Guth is
talking through his hat.

josephus
--


At least my hat that's covering my bald-spot is sticking within the
regular orbital, mutual tidal radius and lithobraking laws of physics,
such as the Sirius star/solar system having somewhat recently lost 4+
solar mass, and also why this conjecture or theory of mine is a bit
more than complex enough to require a fairly impressive supercomputer
set of simulations that you and others of your DARPA kind refuse to
run.

I noticed that you also haven't bothered to introduce any alternative
notions as viable for having generated the South Pole Aitken basin.
Is there a good reason for this?

Sadly, yours and this following has been a fairly typical and thus
counter-productive reply to my topic:
He's going to claim the Moon only recently went into Earth orbit - a
few thousand years ago, no doubt brought here by aliens. :-)


So, then, the Moon was an alien nuclear waste dumping ground?


That's actually entirely possible, especially since it's so gamma
producing like no other moon, planet or even that of our sun. An icy
proto-moon is also providing a darn good interstellar craft, as well
as nicely thermal insulated and otherwise ideally shielded from cosmic
and local gamma. Must also be the reason(s) why most everything of
JAXA/Selene has become so unusually taboo/nondisclosure rated.

BTW, the 2e20 N/sec worth of holding onto our moon is always twice as
tidal force worthy as our sun. If that mutual tidal force of 2e20 N/
sec were converted into hourly energy, it's absolutely impressive as
all get out, even if only 0.0001% of that force--energy becomes
worthy of global warming.

If our trusty moon were to be relocated out to Earth's L1, and
interactively kept there for obtaining roughly 3+% worth of solar
isolation, as such we'd still have half the amount of tidal action to
deal with. Because that relocated moon always being in alignment with
our sun, those ocean tides would never change amplitude or their 24
hour cycle.

If the moon were somehow to be eliminated, we'd still have roughly a
third the tidal action, but at least our badly polluted environment
would then be having a singular 24 hour tidal cycle that was always as
regular as high noon, and lowest tides as regular as midnight, as well
as Earth would be getting extremely cold from the inside out. Those
supercomputer simulations would have easily proven all of this out,
but sadly they are taboo/nondisclosure or simply DARPA need-to-know
rated.

It seems them nifty Google-Groups gold stars are no longer working, at
least not for me. One of my lose cannons must have nailed their DARPA
status quo (upsetting their apple cart or rocking their good ship
LOLLIPOP). Of course few if none others were into giving out those
gold stars, no matters how interesting the contributed topic or reply.

When so much of DARPA/newsgroups are of such silly or intentionally
misleading/diversion topics, it’s interesting how the really good
topics or replies can’t seem to be given any of them Google-Groups
gold stars. I wonder why them DARPA Gods of Usenet/newsgroups are
upset enough to banish them gold stars.

Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

  #8  
Old June 8th 08, 06:25 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
josephus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

BradGuth wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:54 pm, josephus wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif
Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.
Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.
Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.
In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.
Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).
Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth
Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.
It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.
The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.
It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth

let me ask you about what celestial mechanics is at it heart?
mathematics is considered the queen of the sciences and she does not
deign to relate to reality. but celestial mechanics is a very
specialized kind of physics , a shirtsleeves approximation.
mathematicians either wreck their ships on that rock or else avoid it
like the plague... but it is all about describing the motion of
objects. Newton was a twit, but a genius mathematical twit. I would
accept being as crazy and religiosity burned as Newton but I am not and
I cannot do the kind of mathematical reasoning he could do. he unified
physics and mathematics. so well that it took 250 years to determine
how he was wrong if at all. but he offered problems related to your
thesis of a interloper moon. he considered the question of a limits of
calculations. Roche looked at the same calculus and noted that beyond
a certain radius (having to do with the mass of the primary) the
interloper would be shattered. ( this same theory predicts things
like Saturn's rings.) it all relates to the question of can a moon
approach any significant body and not be shattered? Saturn says no.


The planet Jupiter says yes, and even within the Saturn rings are
items going bump or lithobraking in the night, so to speak, without
their shattering to bits.

so the integral of ( c^2 * (2/r -1/a) ) has to do with the curvature of
space. a technical Roche limit says there is a joint mass with a
distance proportional to that mass the should any TWO masses approach
the lesser and even the primary would be broken up.

Brad describes the moon like a fractured billiard ball. it is fluid
and fragile compared to a billiard ball. at planetary scales
asteroids, moons planets and stars are all fluid. and that is why the
largest are spherical.

all these physical facts specifically indicate the Brad Guth is
talking through his hat.

josephus
--


At least my hat that's covering my bald-spot is sticking within the
regular orbital, mutual tidal radius and lithobraking


there is that lithobraking again. it does mean anything it
implies that stone can spontaneously stop -- which violates not only
relativity and Newtonian physics.

laws of physics,
such as the Sirius star/solar system having somewhat recently lost 4+
solar mass, and also why this conjecture or theory of mine is a bit
more than complex enough to require a fairly impressive supercomputer
set of simulations that you and others of your DARPA kind refuse to
run.


this simulated refusal to believe BRAD the BOOB? does not suggest
that we believe your speculations.
I noticed that you also haven't bothered to introduce any alternative
notions as viable for having generated the South Pole Aitken basin.
Is there a good reason for this?


why is an impact crater any more unbelievable than your explanation
of billiard ball antics.

Sadly, yours and this following has been a fairly typical and thus
counter-productive reply to my topic:
He's going to claim the Moon only recently went into Earth orbit - a
few thousand years ago, no doubt brought here by aliens. :-)

So, then, the Moon was an alien nuclear waste dumping ground?


That's actually entirely possible, especially since it's so gamma
producing like no other moon, planet or even that of our sun. An icy
proto-moon is also providing a darn good interstellar craft, as well
as nicely thermal insulated and otherwise ideally shielded from cosmic
and local gamma. Must also be the reason(s) why most everything of
JAXA/Selene has become so unusually taboo/nondisclosure rated.

just for the record our moon iIS an anomaly. our moon is a positive
GIANT. the other moons including moons physically larger than ours are
all tiny compared to their primary. our moon is not as dense as our
planet. it also does not seem to have a molten core. it may have some
iron but it is not molten. and the impact theory does predict that the
moon would be made of mostly crustal materials. so you need to provide
some verifiable predictions that can be tested -- or you are just
blowing in the wind.


BTW, the 2e20 N/sec worth of holding onto our moon is always twice as
tidal force worthy as our sun. If that mutual tidal force of 2e20 N/
sec were converted into hourly energy, it's absolutely impressive as
all get out, even if only 0.0001% of that force--energy becomes
worthy of global warming.

it has been known since the middle ages that the moon provides
energy. the problem is getting the tide to extract that energy.

If our trusty moon were to be relocated out to Earth's L1, and
interactively kept there for obtaining roughly 3+% worth of solar
isolation, as such we'd still have half the amount of tidal action to
deal with. Because that relocated moon always being in alignment with
our sun, those ocean tides would never change amplitude or their 24
hour cycle.


rampant speculaation which ignores the necessary energy to move
the 1.7E20kg moon from one orbit to another.

If the moon were somehow to be eliminated, we'd still have roughly a
third the tidal action, but at least our badly polluted environment
would then be having a singular 24 hour tidal cycle that was always as
regular as high noon, and lowest tides as regular as midnight, as well
as Earth would be getting extremely cold from the inside out. Those
supercomputer simulations would have easily proven all of this out,
but sadly they are taboo/nondisclosure or simply DARPA need-to-know
rated.


If we removed the moon it would not change anything except the size
of the tides.

It seems them nifty Google-Groups gold stars are no longer working, at
least not for me. One of my lose cannons must have nailed their DARPA
status quo (upsetting their apple cart or rocking their good ship
LOLLIPOP). Of course few if none others were into giving out those
gold stars, no matters how interesting the contributed topic or reply.


When so much of DARPA/newsgroups are of such silly or intentionally
misleading/diversion topics, it’s interesting how the really good
topics or replies can’t seem to be given any of them Google-Groups
gold stars. I wonder why them DARPA Gods of Usenet/newsgroups are
upset enough to banish them gold stars.


I wonder if DARPA fired Brad and that is why he has a hardon for DARPA.

Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth



josephus--
I go sailing in the summer
and look at stars in the winter,
"Everybody is ignorant but on
different subjects"
--Will Rogers
Its not what you know
that gets you in trouble
its what you know that ain so.
--josh billings.
  #9  
Old June 8th 08, 07:12 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

Your profound and insurmountable nayism is noted. Your lack of any
supercoumpter simulation is also noted.
Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

On Jun 7, 10:25 pm, josephus wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:54 pm, josephus wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif
Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.
Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.
Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.
In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.
Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).
Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth
Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.
It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.
The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.
It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth
let me ask you about what celestial mechanics is at it heart?
mathematics is considered the queen of the sciences and she does not
deign to relate to reality. but celestial mechanics is a very
specialized kind of physics , a shirtsleeves approximation.
mathematicians either wreck their ships on that rock or else avoid it
like the plague... but it is all about describing the motion of
objects. Newton was a twit, but a genius mathematical twit. I would
accept being as crazy and religiosity burned as Newton but I am not and
I cannot do the kind of mathematical reasoning he could do. he unified
physics and mathematics. so well that it took 250 years to determine
how he was wrong if at all. but he offered problems related to your
thesis of a interloper moon. he considered the question of a limits of
calculations. Roche looked at the same calculus and noted that beyond
a certain radius (having to do with the mass of the primary) the
interloper would be shattered. ( this same theory predicts things
like Saturn's rings.) it all relates to the question of can a moon
approach any significant body and not be shattered? Saturn says no.


The planet Jupiter says yes, and even within the Saturn rings are
items going bump or lithobraking in the night, so to speak, without
their shattering to bits.


so the integral of ( c^2 * (2/r -1/a) ) has to do with the curvature of
space. a technical Roche limit says there is a joint mass with a
distance proportional to that mass the should any TWO masses approach
the lesser and even the primary would be broken up.


Brad describes the moon like a fractured billiard ball. it is fluid
and fragile compared to a billiard ball. at planetary scales
asteroids, moons planets and stars are all fluid. and that is why the
largest are spherical.


all these physical facts specifically indicate the Brad Guth is
talking through his hat.


josephus
--


At least my hat that's covering my bald-spot is sticking within the
regular orbital, mutual tidal radius and lithobraking


there is that lithobraking again. it does mean anything it
implies that stone can spontaneously stop -- which violates not only
relativity and Newtonian physics.

laws of physics,

such as the Sirius star/solar system having somewhat recently lost 4+
solar mass, and also why this conjecture or theory of mine is a bit
more than complex enough to require a fairly impressive supercomputer
set of simulations that you and others of your DARPA kind refuse to
run.


this simulated refusal to believe BRAD the BOOB? does not suggest
that we believe your speculations.

I noticed that you also haven't bothered to introduce any alternative
notions as viable for having generated the South Pole Aitken basin.
Is there a good reason for this?


why is an impact crater any more unbelievable than your explanation
of billiard ball antics.

Sadly, yours and this following has been a fairly typical and thus
counter-productive reply to my topic:
He's going to claim the Moon only recently went into Earth orbit - a
few thousand years ago, no doubt brought here by aliens. :-)
So, then, the Moon was an alien nuclear waste dumping ground?


That's actually entirely possible, especially since it's so gamma
producing like no other moon, planet or even that of our sun. An icy
proto-moon is also providing a darn good interstellar craft, as well
as nicely thermal insulated and otherwise ideally shielded from cosmic
and local gamma. Must also be the reason(s) why most everything of
JAXA/Selene has become so unusually taboo/nondisclosure rated.


just for the record our moon iIS an anomaly. our moon is a positive
GIANT. the other moons including moons physically larger than ours are
all tiny compared to their primary. our moon is not as dense as our
planet. it also does not seem to have a molten core. it may have some
iron but it is not molten. and the impact theory does predict that the
moon would be made of mostly crustal materials. so you need to provide
some verifiable predictions that can be tested -- or you are just
blowing in the wind.

BTW, the 2e20 N/sec worth of holding onto our moon is always twice as
tidal force worthy as our sun. If that mutual tidal force of 2e20 N/
sec were converted into hourly energy, it's absolutely impressive as
all get out, even if only 0.0001% of that force--energy becomes
worthy of global warming.


it has been known since the middle ages that the moon provides
energy. the problem is getting the tide to extract that energy.

If our trusty moon were to be relocated out to Earth's L1, and
interactively kept there for obtaining roughly 3+% worth of solar
isolation, as such we'd still have half the amount of tidal action to
deal with. Because that relocated moon always being in alignment with
our sun, those ocean tides would never change amplitude or their 24
hour cycle.


rampant speculaation which ignores the necessary energy to move
the 1.7E20kg moon from one orbit to another.



If the moon were somehow to be eliminated, we'd still have roughly a
third the tidal action, but at least our badly polluted environment
would then be having a singular 24 hour tidal cycle that was always as
regular as high noon, and lowest tides as regular as midnight, as well
as Earth would be getting extremely cold from the inside out. Those
supercomputer simulations would have easily proven all of this out,
but sadly they are taboo/nondisclosure or simply DARPA need-to-know
rated.


If we removed the moon it would not change anything except the size
of the tides.



It seems them nifty Google-Groups gold stars are no longer working, at
least not for me. One of my lose cannons must have nailed their DARPA
status quo (upsetting their apple cart or rocking their good ship
LOLLIPOP). Of course few if none others were into giving out those
gold stars, no matters how interesting the contributed topic or reply.


When so much of DARPA/newsgroups are of such silly or intentionally
misleading/diversion topics, it’s interesting how the really good
topics or replies can’t seem to be given any of them Google-Groups
gold stars. I wonder why them DARPA Gods of Usenet/newsgroups are
upset enough to banish them gold stars.


I wonder if DARPA fired Brad and that is why he has a hardon for DARPA.



Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth


josephus--
I go sailing in the summer
and look at stars in the winter,
"Everybody is ignorant but on
different subjects"
--Will Rogers
Its not what you know
that gets you in trouble
its what you know that ain so.
--josh billings.


  #10  
Old June 8th 08, 08:44 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,soc.history.what-if,alt.astronomy,sci.geo.geology
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Posts: 544
Default Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin

On 8 juin, 08:12, BradGuth wrote:
Your profound and insurmountable nayism is noted. *Your lack of any
supercoumpter simulation is also noted.
Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

On Jun 7, 10:25 pm, josephus wrote:



BradGuth wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:54 pm, josephus wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
On May 31, 9:09 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Earth w/o moon is also moon w/o South Pole-Aitken basin
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole-Aitken_basin
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aitken_clem_big.gif
Our moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km in diameter is currently
only 13 km deep (roughly 0.5%), offers a perfectly darn good example
of the relatively shallow nature of such a horrific impact, as most
likely moderated in depth due to the moon’s thick coating of surface
ice that existed prior to the lithobraking encounter with Earth.
Of several other largest of craters are those approximately 10% as
impressive, or roughly 200 km in diameter, and equally shallow.
Otherwise, if not having been protected by a thick layer of salty ice,
I suppose those unusually shallow and oldest of moon craters are due
to the unusually robust crust that is simply a whole lot thicker and
more density substantial than anything terrestrial.
In order to have produced the South Pole-Aitken basin of 2500 km by 13
km would also have required an impact with something of considerably
larger diameter, such as Earth or possibly Mars got in the way before
that moon arrived at encountering Earth.
Once again, a good supercomputer could have nicely simulated this type
of complex multiple encounter with such an icy proto-moon or icy
planetoid that was merging with our solar system after being red-giant
phase ejected away from the complex Sirius-A/B star/solar system that
had recently burned through 5x worth of solar mass upon converting
Sirius-B into that white dwarf (Sirius-A picking up one solar mass,
leaves 4x missing in action).
Of course, for all we know, Earth or at least Venus may also have been
deployed into orbiting Sol by way of that same analogy of *the Sirius
star system having lost those 4x solar mass, thereby losing it’s tidal
radius grip on such planets and spare moons or planetoids.
. – Brad Guth
Earth w/o Moon / by Brad Guth was a topic about the alternative as to
how this planet obtained that terrific moon, as well as started the
last thaw from the very last ice age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.
It’s also about what’s not depicted within those early cave paintings
that matters. *Here’s a somewhat better worded introduction to this
topic.
The early or proto-modern human species, as of their surviving during
and obviously as of shortly after the very last ice-age this Earth w/
moon is ever going to see, as such were obviously extremely survival
intelligent folks, meaning much better off at their surviving within
that raw and often cold terrain than the vast majority of supposedly
highly educated and technology assisted as any modern clothed plus
well insulated and tool outfitted humans as of today could possibly
muster. *As for these early humans having such raw intelligence for
their surviving, it seems they had often recorded in stone or via cave
paintings as to whatever was of keen interest, or simply taking proper
notice of whatever else was shock and awe worthy about their
extensively snow and icy covered era (especially if going by those
crystal clear nighttimes), that was thawing out and subsequently
flooding most everything in sight for the very last ice-age time.
However, apparently as of prior to 12,500 BP or even of somewhat more
recent times, there simply was not an era of artistic notations on
behalf of depicting anything moon like until some time after 12,500 BP
when humans had taken notice of significant ocean tidal issues, of
seasonal tilt variations worthy of their having to migrate, and of
otherwise absolutely nothing prior as having ever been recorded or
otherwise noted as to their environment having that terrifically
vibrant moon, as so often from time to time allowing them to see, hunt
and gather by winter night, as though nearly as crystal clear as by
day except without benefit of any heat influx, whereas you’d think
this would be worth some kind of record.
It’s almost as though Earth’s ice-age environment was always clouded
over, or that such humans were semi-blind as having been surviving
within a nearly monoseason w/o moon, whereas there simply are no such
graphic accountings as to any extended nighttime of winter, or of
those much shorter nighttimes of summer, much less of their ever
having noticed tidal issues or having that absolutely impressive
moonshine by night to better see and thus hunt, gather and survive by,
especially weird if knowing they’d have that vibrant moon to light
their way.
Seems if they were in fact survival smart enough and so good at having
depicted their local environment, as having recording anything that
truly mattered, whereas such you’d have to rethink as to why such
intelligent and highly survival skilled folks were so otherwise
entirely dumbfounded and/or oblivious, as to their having excluded any
mention of seasonal changes, ocean tides and of that terrifically big
old and extremely bright looking moon of ours, that which at winter/
ice-age times would have been unavoidably made to look extra bright by
way of the added 10+ points worth of Earth’s icy and snowy albedo.
What if a nearly monoseason Earth and of its somewhat elliptical orbit
about our passive sun simply didn’t have that moon as of prior to
12,500 BP? (wouldn’t Earth as a whole be a whole lot colder, unless a
second sun became available)
Why as of today are such public owned supercomputers and of their
highly capable simulations on behalf of running this alternative
interpretation of the best available science, as such being
continually made so off-limits, as though our best research technology
is forever sequestered or kept as taboo/nondisclosure rated?
. – Brad Guth
* let me ask you about what celestial mechanics is at it heart?
mathematics is considered the queen of the sciences and she does not
deign to relate to reality. *but *celestial mechanics is a very
specialized kind of physics , a shirtsleeves *approximation.
mathematicians *either wreck their ships on that rock or else avoid it
like the plague... * but it is all about describing *the motion of
objects. * Newton was a twit, but a genius mathematical twit. * I would
accept being as crazy and religiosity burned as Newton but I am not and
I cannot do the kind of mathematical reasoning he could do. he unified
physics and mathematics. *so well that it took 250 years to determine
how he was wrong if at all. * *but he offered problems related to your
thesis of a interloper moon. *he considered the question of a limits of
calculations. * Roche *looked at the same calculus and noted that beyond
a certain radius (having to do with the mass of the primary) *the
interloper would be shattered. * ( this same theory predicts *things
like Saturn's rings.) * it all relates to the question of can a moon
approach any significant body and not be shattered? *Saturn says no..


The planet Jupiter says yes, and even within the Saturn rings are
items going bump or lithobraking in the night, so to speak, without
their shattering to bits.


so the integral of ( c^2 * (2/r -1/a) ) has to do with the curvature of
space. *a technical Roche limit says there is a joint mass *with a
distance proportional to that mass the should any TWO masses approach
the lesser and even the primary would be broken up.


Brad describes the moon like a fractured billiard ball. * it is fluid
and fragile *compared to a billiard ball. *at planetary scales
asteroids, moons planets and stars are all fluid. and that is why the
largest are spherical.


* * all these physical facts specifically indicate the Brad Guth is
talking through his hat.


josephus
--


At least my hat that's covering my bald-spot is sticking within the
regular orbital, mutual tidal radius and lithobraking


* * there is that lithobraking again. * it does mean anything *it
implies that stone can spontaneously stop -- which violates not only
relativity and Newtonian physics.


laws of physics,


such as the Sirius star/solar system having somewhat recently lost 4+
solar mass, and also why this conjecture or theory of mine is a bit
more than complex enough to require a fairly impressive supercomputer
set of simulations that you and others of your DARPA kind refuse to
run.


* * this simulated refusal to believe BRAD the BOOB? *does not suggest
that we believe your speculations.


I noticed that you also haven't bothered to introduce any alternative
notions as viable for having generated the South Pole Aitken basin.
Is there a good reason for this?


* * *why is an impact crater any more unbelievable than your explanation
of *billiard ball antics.


Sadly, yours and this following has been a fairly typical and thus
counter-productive reply to my topic:
He's going to claim the Moon only recently went into Earth orbit - a
few thousand years ago, no doubt brought here by


...

plus de détails »- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


... interesting deaf & dumb exchanges, all the more since that alleged
attraction is just figment of mad imaginations as well that warped
space, output indeed of schizophrenic minds unable to add a speed to
another ! ( by ex. that Einstein plagiarist retard & Master of
illusion)

a) Underlying the crass lunacy (or lunarcy may be ) of that poor sod
of Josephus & sundries is the fact all Orogenesis on Earth are
resulting from direct Moon Earth hit, the last one leading to the
surrection by hydraulic counter reaction of the Andes, Rockies ,
Canada craton ( yep Niagara falls and all major falls of the world)
the Alps, the Himalayas etc ... a mere 11 700 years ago as the
Academics frauds supporting present Geology are unable to see

b) OF COURSE, the question of what is the motor of Earth Rotation &
Earth Revolution, as well of course of all our Solar system's
likewise motion + all Planetary Expansion in phase with it, is not
considered nor addressed by the Universities mass-produced conditioned
minds allegedly claiming being able then with their degenerate present
"modern" minds to consider & hence bring answers to such nagging
questions. No, this is impossible, since the pretension is that
mathematical legerdemains ( as the late Henri Poincaré's E= Mc^2
equation, and claimed amongst others' by again the Einstein thief,
attempted to prove ) can lead to a proper understanding, while in
fact defining a virtual & impossible fiction with no relation at all
to the real world.

Only a correct understanding, prior to introducing computing, leads to
an intelligence of our environment and hence to the True History of
the Earth & our Solar System, with a direct relation of cause to
effect whereby the observation of our Relief according to the True
Geology ( based both on back engineering and on the UPL or Universal
Pressure Law) is the key not only of our past but or our future....
with in our case an irreversible drift towards Mars and the exit hence
from the Solar biological range ( accelerated by Global Warming
indeed ) with a concomittent consequence to all other planets, as
defined by the Titius-Bode law .

In this light here a quote from previous answer to Dr Don Findlay,
one of the greatest Geologic mind of the Southern Hemisphere indeed,
which I consider quite appropriate :

QUOTE
The main problem is not only that Plate Tectonics theories, as you
are demonstrating, are false but as well all the rest...
You are addressing through the references to John Dewey & others the
issue of the Human mind 's working ! But again these are symptoms but
not as yet addressing the real cause.

As well the motor of Planetary Expansion with its local case of Earth
Expansion is not understood by Carey & sundries, hence the EE
understanding although correct will not be accepted by the
Establishment. The nagging question of course being that : Is the
Western World hooked on the JIC (Judeo-Islamic-Christian ) sects
underlying concepts able to understand the True History of Mankind and
of the Earth. My answer is NO, and I am certain that only population
free from such mental programming as the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans +
a few others will be able to make the bound to a True Geology.

Just like curing any type of cancer in 3 days flat and relief to
brain tumour in a 2 hours is completely beyond the grasp of the
present Dizzeaze Industry (DI) for which the Cancer business is the
most juicy Cash flow indeed...Do you think as well that Mankind is
able to understand & accept indeed that very simple concept which
Cosmic Laws impose indeed since eons of time according to which, as I
have resumed it succinctly :
ALL DIZZEZEZZ ARE DEZERVED !!!
Of course not... the dudes prefer to :
TAKE FRASER'S WITH CONFIDENCE !

Fraser and sundries comfort the dizzeazed in the fact that their
dizeazes are not their own fault ... Not so indeed according to Cosmic
Laws.
Chastiment is never being administered without reason indeed,
ignorance being NO excuse !

The Geology Establishment stands on loose ground at the present time
and proves itself an Academic Congregation of Clueles Universities
Rabble indeed ( Curtin, Monash, ANU, etc ) ... and so does the
Medical Establishment with its drug pushing industry !!! ... but so
many unproductive, sterile & indeed parasites live on the system that
none of that congregation want things to change indeed

Hey ?
ENDQUOTE

With best regards to all honestly seeking minds


Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
Discoverer of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines in the Great Sandy Desert
Exploration Geologist & Offshore Consultant
Bus ph + 33 6 50 17 14 64
Founder of the True Geology

~ Ignorance is the Cosmic Sin, the One never Forgiven ~


for background info.
http://www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/grule.html
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/index.html
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/nac.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/turcaud.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s28534.htm





 




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