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  #11  
Old December 10th 12, 06:21 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,478
Default VLBI

On Dec 10, 6:03*am, palsing wrote:
On Sunday, December 9, 2012 7:08:39 PM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
...the determination that local tracking of a star in stellar circumpolar


motion reflects daily rotation is false...


So, what does it indicate?


Constant axial alignment throughout an annual cycle and that is it.

The world should not suffer another day with silly reasoning which
tries to force a conclusion on stellar circumpolar motion using the
daily and orbital motions of the Earth and I don't blame you nor the
other empiricists insofar as that would be admitting that it is
possible for you to adapt to the 24 hour AM/PM system and the Lat/
Long system.

You don't have the slightest inkling of the damage being caused in
many areas of human endeavor and it is not so much a game that the
basic planetary facts can be buried under a blizzard of time
abbreviations and VLBI voodoo,it is that normally decent and
reasonable people don't know how to respond to this tragedy.

I never thought you in the same league as Davoud who never wastes an
opportunity to announce a 'killfile' as if it meant something,after
all,in an unmoderated newsgroup the really luxury is saying whatever
you wish without hope of a response or reaction - too unintelligent I
guess for the modern Usenet era.That being said,looking at the barren
moderated newsgroups which are like kid's treehouses,I commend
everyone who comes here and adds something.
  #12  
Old December 10th 12, 10:31 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Nicholson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 235
Default VLBI

It is part of Oriel's mental health issues that he is unable or
unwilling to respond to questions or to accept any answer that differs
from his own bizarre view of the world. If you have even the slightest
degree of compassion for him you will refuse to acknowledge his
existance in this group. In that way there is at least some hope that
he can get the help he so urgently needs.

The way he endlessly repeats minor variations of the same nonsense is
just one symptom of his illness. He quite literally cannot stop
himself from posting (it is both instructive and frightening to
examine how often he posts) and it is hard to imagine that he has a
normal life as in paid employment, a family and other leisure
activities.

  #13  
Old December 10th 12, 08:31 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,478
Default VLBI

On Dec 10, 5:46*am, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"
wrote:
"oriel36" *wrote in message

...

On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, Martin Brown
wrote:









On 08/12/2012 23:09, Quadibloc wrote:


On Dec 7, 12:58 pm, oriel36 wrote:
The use of VLBI has about the same intellectual substance as
photographing the wandering Sun analemma


In the sense that both are based on the knowledge of the physical laws
that govern the universe he is actually right.


The great thing about VLBI and any other large network of interferometer
telscopes is that with N scopes you get N(N-1)(N-2)/6 good phase
observables Jennison (1958) and N(N-1)(N-2)(N-3)/12 good amplitude
observables. It is for this reason that the VLBI network scopes tend to
take chances in stormy weather to stay on the network. Dropping from N=9
to 8 is a big hit.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_phase


You are saying this to a newsgroup filled with people who have
frequently seen with their own eyes that the resolving power of a
telescope increases with its aperture - which is another manifestation
of the wave nature of light (Newton was partial to the opposing
corpuscular theory) on which VLBI is based.


At long last, have you no sense of irony?


Much harder to explain is intensity interferometry where photon counting
detectors were used to measure the diameters of the most promising super
giants were measured by Hanbury-Brown and Twiss at Jodrell Bank to prove
the concept and later with a much larger setup at Narrabi in South
Africa. The book is fairly rare but the technique led to a very fierce
debate in the physics community about it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanbury...d_Twiss_effect


Wave paricle duality has some very interesting consequences. These guys
deserve much better recognition for their ground breaking research!


I don't actually like thi semi-classical derivation but it is online.
ISTR someone in s.e.d posted a link to a scan of the book but I don't
believe in copyright infringement so I am not reposting it here.


http://szczypka.web.cern.ch/szczypka...wiss/twiss.pdf


Note that in the implementation of the H-B intensity interferometer the
detectors were photon counting devices 931A phototubes if memory serves..
The correlation are real and determined by the baeline length and the
angular diameter of the source.


Regards,
Martin Brown


It doesn't matter whether a pendulum clock is used or VLBI,the
determination that local tracking of a star in stellar circumpolar
motion reflects daily rotation is false by virtue that it is a
homocentric determination which happens to be one step lower that
geocentricity and equivalent to astronomical oblivion.

I notice with greater frequency that they no longer call their
imaginative conceptions by the name of 'theories' but 'models' and the
first one was trying to model the motions of the Earth using the 24
hour AM/PM cycle allied with the Lat/Long system which in turn happen
to be an extension of the 1461 day calendar cycle in a format of 365
day/366 day rotations.

You don't have a feel for astronomical timekeeping nor structural
astronomy Brown and although you and your colleagues will continue
like this for a while,even a long while,but technically you are
finished as astronomy recovers the ability to correlate cause and
effect between dynamics and what happens on Earth.
================================================== ==
Rut roh... Kelleher is now preaching astrology. *My star sign is Cepheus,
Kelleher. What do the dynamic stars foretell my future to be, here on Earth?
Will I go on a journey? Will I meet a short, blond and chubby woman?
Consult the crystal ball and the star charts for me, Kelleher.

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway


The spiel of the two sticks in the ground,a watch and the return of a
star is homocentric which you jokers called relativity and so what if
you can't comprehend Isaac's distortion of the Equation of Time as it
correlates natural noon AM/PM to 24 hour AM/PM,it is no more than I
have come to expect from people who probably consider themselves less
of a thug than you are.Royal Society empiricism indeed !,it has been a
pleasure to watch it disintegrate through the natural processes which
are now visible through contemporary imaging and hang on to the
voodoo of equations - visible interpretation is always the great
equalizer and will be more so in the future.

If the IAU could be any less of an astronomical community I would not
know how,there is something so perverse in the inability to express
known planetary facts contained in the 24 hour AM/PM format as it is
tied to the Lat/Long system that you actually have to veer far out of
your way to support the Ra/Dec extensions and what it limitations are.

Turns out you are the same as all relativists/empiricists in being
chained to the same circumpolar error that is going nowhere while
genuine astronomy has been here all along.How many 'astronomers' made
a nice wage today under false pretenses when it is just as easy to
work towards restoring a stable astronomical narrative which they can
have for nothing.



  #14  
Old December 10th 12, 08:48 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 74
Default VLBI

"oriel36" wrote in message
...

On Dec 10, 5:46 am, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"
wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

...

On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, Martin Brown
wrote:









On 08/12/2012 23:09, Quadibloc wrote:


On Dec 7, 12:58 pm, oriel36 wrote:
The use of VLBI has about the same intellectual substance as
photographing the wandering Sun analemma


In the sense that both are based on the knowledge of the physical laws
that govern the universe he is actually right.


The great thing about VLBI and any other large network of interferometer
telscopes is that with N scopes you get N(N-1)(N-2)/6 good phase
observables Jennison (1958) and N(N-1)(N-2)(N-3)/12 good amplitude
observables. It is for this reason that the VLBI network scopes tend to
take chances in stormy weather to stay on the network. Dropping from N=9
to 8 is a big hit.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_phase


You are saying this to a newsgroup filled with people who have
frequently seen with their own eyes that the resolving power of a
telescope increases with its aperture - which is another manifestation
of the wave nature of light (Newton was partial to the opposing
corpuscular theory) on which VLBI is based.


At long last, have you no sense of irony?


Much harder to explain is intensity interferometry where photon counting
detectors were used to measure the diameters of the most promising super
giants were measured by Hanbury-Brown and Twiss at Jodrell Bank to prove
the concept and later with a much larger setup at Narrabi in South
Africa. The book is fairly rare but the technique led to a very fierce
debate in the physics community about it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanbury...d_Twiss_effect


Wave paricle duality has some very interesting consequences. These guys
deserve much better recognition for their ground breaking research!


I don't actually like thi semi-classical derivation but it is online.
ISTR someone in s.e.d posted a link to a scan of the book but I don't
believe in copyright infringement so I am not reposting it here.


http://szczypka.web.cern.ch/szczypka...wiss/twiss.pdf


Note that in the implementation of the H-B intensity interferometer the
detectors were photon counting devices 931A phototubes if memory serves.
The correlation are real and determined by the baeline length and the
angular diameter of the source.


Regards,
Martin Brown


It doesn't matter whether a pendulum clock is used or VLBI,the
determination that local tracking of a star in stellar circumpolar
motion reflects daily rotation is false by virtue that it is a
homocentric determination which happens to be one step lower that
geocentricity and equivalent to astronomical oblivion.

I notice with greater frequency that they no longer call their
imaginative conceptions by the name of 'theories' but 'models' and the
first one was trying to model the motions of the Earth using the 24
hour AM/PM cycle allied with the Lat/Long system which in turn happen
to be an extension of the 1461 day calendar cycle in a format of 365
day/366 day rotations.

You don't have a feel for astronomical timekeeping nor structural
astronomy Brown and although you and your colleagues will continue
like this for a while,even a long while,but technically you are
finished as astronomy recovers the ability to correlate cause and
effect between dynamics and what happens on Earth.
================================================== ==
Rut roh... Kelleher is now preaching astrology. My star sign is Cepheus,
Kelleher. What do the dynamic stars foretell my future to be, here on
Earth?
Will I go on a journey? Will I meet a short, blond and chubby woman?
Consult the crystal ball and the star charts for me, Kelleher.

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway


The spiel of the two sticks in the ground,a watch and the return of a
star is homocentric which you jokers called relativity and so what if
you can't comprehend Isaac's distortion of the Equation of Time as it
correlates natural noon AM/PM to 24 hour AM/PM,it is no more than I
have come to expect from people who probably consider themselves less
of a thug than you are.Royal Society empiricism indeed !,it has been a
pleasure to watch it disintegrate through the natural processes which
are now visible through contemporary imaging and hang on to the
voodoo of equations - visible interpretation is always the great
equalizer and will be more so in the future.

If the IAU could be any less of an astronomical community I would not
know how,there is something so perverse in the inability to express
known planetary facts contained in the 24 hour AM/PM format as it is
tied to the Lat/Long system that you actually have to veer far out of
your way to support the Ra/Dec extensions and what it limitations are.

Turns out you are the same as all relativists/empiricists in being
chained to the same circumpolar error that is going nowhere while
genuine astronomy has been here all along.How many 'astronomers' made
a nice wage today under false pretenses when it is just as easy to
work towards restoring a stable astronomical narrative which they can
have for nothing.


================================================== ==
My star sign is Cepheus, Kelleher. Help me out here, I need my
fortune told to me.
What do the dynamic stars foretell my future to be, here on Earth?
Will I go on a journey? Will I meet a short, blond and chubby woman?
Consult the crystal ball and the star charts for me, Kelleher. Read
my palm or consult Tarot cards, I don't mind.

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway

  #15  
Old December 11th 12, 08:37 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,478
Default VLBI

On Dec 10, 8:48*pm, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"
wrote:
"oriel36" *wrote in message

...

On Dec 10, 5:46 am, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"









wrote:
"oriel36" *wrote in message


...


On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, Martin Brown
wrote:


On 08/12/2012 23:09, Quadibloc wrote:


On Dec 7, 12:58 pm, oriel36 wrote:
The use of VLBI has about the same intellectual substance as
photographing the wandering Sun analemma


In the sense that both are based on the knowledge of the physical laws
that govern the universe he is actually right.


The great thing about VLBI and any other large network of interferometer
telscopes is that with N scopes you get N(N-1)(N-2)/6 good phase
observables Jennison (1958) and N(N-1)(N-2)(N-3)/12 good amplitude
observables. It is for this reason that the VLBI network scopes tend to
take chances in stormy weather to stay on the network. Dropping from N=9
to 8 is a big hit.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_phase


You are saying this to a newsgroup filled with people who have
frequently seen with their own eyes that the resolving power of a
telescope increases with its aperture - which is another manifestation
of the wave nature of light (Newton was partial to the opposing
corpuscular theory) on which VLBI is based.


At long last, have you no sense of irony?


Much harder to explain is intensity interferometry where photon counting
detectors were used to measure the diameters of the most promising super
giants were measured by Hanbury-Brown and Twiss at Jodrell Bank to prove
the concept and later with a much larger setup at Narrabi in South
Africa. The book is fairly rare but the technique led to a very fierce
debate in the physics community about it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanbury...d_Twiss_effect


Wave paricle duality has some very interesting consequences. These guys
deserve much better recognition for their ground breaking research!


I don't actually like thi semi-classical derivation but it is online.
ISTR someone in s.e.d posted a link to a scan of the book but I don't
believe in copyright infringement so I am not reposting it here.


http://szczypka.web.cern.ch/szczypka...wiss/twiss.pdf


Note that in the implementation of the H-B intensity interferometer the
detectors were photon counting devices 931A phototubes if memory serves.
The correlation are real and determined by the baeline length and the
angular diameter of the source.


Regards,
Martin Brown


It doesn't matter whether a pendulum clock is used or VLBI,the
determination that local tracking of a star in stellar circumpolar
motion reflects daily rotation is false by virtue that it is a
homocentric determination which happens to be one step lower that
geocentricity and equivalent to astronomical oblivion.


I notice with greater frequency that they no longer call their
imaginative conceptions by the name of 'theories' but 'models' and the
first one was trying to model the motions of the Earth using the 24
hour AM/PM cycle allied with the Lat/Long system which in turn happen
to be an extension of the 1461 day calendar cycle in a format of 365
day/366 day rotations.


You don't have a feel for astronomical timekeeping nor structural
astronomy Brown and although you and your colleagues will continue
like this for a while,even a long while,but technically you are
finished as astronomy recovers the ability to correlate cause and
effect between dynamics and what happens on Earth.
================================================== ==
Rut roh... Kelleher is now preaching astrology. *My star sign is Cepheus,
Kelleher. What do the dynamic stars foretell my future to be, here on
Earth?
Will I go on a journey? Will I meet a short, blond and chubby woman?
Consult the crystal ball and the star charts for me, Kelleher.


-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway


The spiel of the two sticks in the ground,a watch and the return of a
star is homocentric which you jokers called relativity and so what if
you can't comprehend Isaac's *distortion of the Equation of Time as it
correlates natural noon AM/PM to 24 hour AM/PM,it is no more than I
have come to expect *from people who probably consider themselves less
of a thug than you are.Royal Society empiricism indeed !,it has been a
pleasure to watch it disintegrate through the natural processes which
are now visible through contemporary imaging and hang on to the
voodoo of equations - visible interpretation is always the great
equalizer and will be more so in the future.

If the IAU could be any less of an astronomical community I would not
know how,there is something so perverse in the inability to express
known planetary facts contained in the 24 hour AM/PM format as it is
tied to the Lat/Long system that you actually have to veer far out of
your way to support the Ra/Dec extensions and what it limitations are.

Turns out you are the same as all relativists/empiricists in being
chained to the same circumpolar error that is going nowhere while
genuine astronomy has been here all along.How many 'astronomers' made
a nice wage today under false pretenses when it is just as *easy to
work towards restoring a stable astronomical narrative which they can
have for nothing.

================================================== ==
My star sign is Cepheus, Kelleher. Help me out here, I need my
fortune told to me.


You are like the other dummy who designs and begins a game he doesn't
even have to play,loses it anyway and then goes on to instruct
everyone here not to correspond as if that was going to happen.It was
so easy before to get you into supporting the same relativity you rant
and rail against that I wouldn't even consider it a challenge but then
again,when did any of you challenge yourselves,more like thugs
shouting from the stands that frontier people at the boundaries of
creativity and productivity.

So,no need to predict anything,you are trapped in the same poor late
17th century conclusions as everyone else hence I know your
limitations and those you unfortunate people would impose on the rest
of the world so you could continue with a narrow-minded,mean spirited
existence where you only know each other by what you hate.





  #16  
Old December 11th 12, 09:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 74
Default VLBI

"oriel36" wrote in message
...

On Dec 10, 8:48 pm, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"
wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

...

On Dec 10, 5:46 am, "Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway"









wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message


...


On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, Martin Brown
wrote:


On 08/12/2012 23:09, Quadibloc wrote:


On Dec 7, 12:58 pm, oriel36 wrote:
The use of VLBI has about the same intellectual substance as
photographing the wandering Sun analemma


In the sense that both are based on the knowledge of the physical laws
that govern the universe he is actually right.


The great thing about VLBI and any other large network of
interferometer
telscopes is that with N scopes you get N(N-1)(N-2)/6 good phase
observables Jennison (1958) and N(N-1)(N-2)(N-3)/12 good amplitude
observables. It is for this reason that the VLBI network scopes tend
to
take chances in stormy weather to stay on the network. Dropping from
N=9
to 8 is a big hit.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_phase


You are saying this to a newsgroup filled with people who have
frequently seen with their own eyes that the resolving power of a
telescope increases with its aperture - which is another
manifestation
of the wave nature of light (Newton was partial to the opposing
corpuscular theory) on which VLBI is based.


At long last, have you no sense of irony?


Much harder to explain is intensity interferometry where photon
counting
detectors were used to measure the diameters of the most promising
super
giants were measured by Hanbury-Brown and Twiss at Jodrell Bank to
prove
the concept and later with a much larger setup at Narrabi in South
Africa. The book is fairly rare but the technique led to a very fierce
debate in the physics community about it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanbury...d_Twiss_effect


Wave paricle duality has some very interesting consequences. These
guys
deserve much better recognition for their ground breaking research!


I don't actually like thi semi-classical derivation but it is online.
ISTR someone in s.e.d posted a link to a scan of the book but I don't
believe in copyright infringement so I am not reposting it here.


http://szczypka.web.cern.ch/szczypka...wiss/twiss.pdf


Note that in the implementation of the H-B intensity interferometer
the
detectors were photon counting devices 931A phototubes if memory
serves.
The correlation are real and determined by the baeline length and the
angular diameter of the source.


Regards,
Martin Brown


It doesn't matter whether a pendulum clock is used or VLBI,the
determination that local tracking of a star in stellar circumpolar
motion reflects daily rotation is false by virtue that it is a
homocentric determination which happens to be one step lower that
geocentricity and equivalent to astronomical oblivion.


I notice with greater frequency that they no longer call their
imaginative conceptions by the name of 'theories' but 'models' and the
first one was trying to model the motions of the Earth using the 24
hour AM/PM cycle allied with the Lat/Long system which in turn happen
to be an extension of the 1461 day calendar cycle in a format of 365
day/366 day rotations.


You don't have a feel for astronomical timekeeping nor structural
astronomy Brown and although you and your colleagues will continue
like this for a while,even a long while,but technically you are
finished as astronomy recovers the ability to correlate cause and
effect between dynamics and what happens on Earth.
================================================== ==
Rut roh... Kelleher is now preaching astrology. My star sign is
Cepheus,
Kelleher. What do the dynamic stars foretell my future to be, here on
Earth?
Will I go on a journey? Will I meet a short, blond and chubby woman?
Consult the crystal ball and the star charts for me, Kelleher.


-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway


The spiel of the two sticks in the ground,a watch and the return of a
star is homocentric which you jokers called relativity and so what if
you can't comprehend Isaac's distortion of the Equation of Time as it
correlates natural noon AM/PM to 24 hour AM/PM,it is no more than I
have come to expect from people who probably consider themselves less
of a thug than you are.Royal Society empiricism indeed !,it has been a
pleasure to watch it disintegrate through the natural processes which
are now visible through contemporary imaging and hang on to the
voodoo of equations - visible interpretation is always the great
equalizer and will be more so in the future.

If the IAU could be any less of an astronomical community I would not
know how,there is something so perverse in the inability to express
known planetary facts contained in the 24 hour AM/PM format as it is
tied to the Lat/Long system that you actually have to veer far out of
your way to support the Ra/Dec extensions and what it limitations are.

Turns out you are the same as all relativists/empiricists in being
chained to the same circumpolar error that is going nowhere while
genuine astronomy has been here all along.How many 'astronomers' made
a nice wage today under false pretenses when it is just as easy to
work towards restoring a stable astronomical narrative which they can
have for nothing.

================================================== ==
My star sign is Cepheus, Kelleher. Help me out here, I need my
fortune told to me.


You are like the other dummy

=================================
You are the one and only stupid ridiculous thug that claimed
astronomy recovers the ability to correlate cause and
effect between dynamics and what happens on Earth.
My star sign is Cepheus, Kelleher. Help me out here, I need my
fortune told to me.
What do the dynamic stars foretell my future to be, here on Earth?
Will I go on a journey? Will I meet a short, blond and chubby woman?
Consult the crystal ball and the star charts for me, Kelleher. Read
my palm or consult Tarot cards, I don't mind.

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway



  #17  
Old October 23rd 17, 08:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,551
Default VLBI

On Monday, December 10, 2012 at 3:35:18 AM UTC, Davoud wrote:
Quadibloc:
But no doubt Oriel would regard the wave-particle duality as...


I wouldn't know how Oriel would regard anything because he's in my
kill-file.

I was addressing very simply the point where he was wrong...


That's a relief. So you've straightened him out once and for all and I
can take him out of my kill-file because now that you have set him
straight he will hereafter post only logical and cogent thoughts. Is
that the way you see it? If I had a ha'penny for every time Oriel has
made a fool of those who are obsessed with setting him straight once
and for all I'd be a rich man today!

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm


These threads surface every now and again with little movement however new imaging has appeared since 2012 that extracts astronomy from the theoretical quagmire where the followers either die out or have no way to compete with actual imaging. That is all that is going to happen, you will die out as followers of voodoo and bluffing when there is room for modelling and creating the necessary software to create the graphics necessary for 21st century concerns . Only the briefest glimpse has appeared but a glimpse nonetheless -

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...s+planet+dance

My goodness, barely a month later when I was engaged in these things I cracked my vertebrae with 6 weeks in a Norwegian hospital. Such is dedication.

 




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