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Query about Mars
I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts? WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human habitation. So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? Obviously the vegetation would also need its own life support systems such as insects and so on, so it would generally take rather more than a packet of seeds from the garden centre. I appreciate it's not an overnight change, and it could in fact be hundreds of years (or longer) before the climate was friendly enough to support human life. The question is purely rhetorical as I'm interested to know if this would be a feasible option. Andrew Problems scheduling resources? Check out KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions! at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp |
#2
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Query about Mars
The CO2 atmosphere at the surface of Mars has a pressure of around one
hundredth of sea level pressure here on earth. Actually, the CO2 partial pressure on Mars might be similar to that on earth, but the big problem is that liquid water will not hang around for long at this atmospheric pressure, it will be either solid or gaseous depending on temperature. The water in any (earth like) higher plant cell on Mars will either freeze and disrupt the cell contents or it will boil and burst the cell walls. Maybe at some depth below the surface things might be more conducive to plant growth if an alternative to solar input could be found for an energy source. Or maybe plants could one day be grown under pressurised domes. However, my scepticism to most Terraforming ideas arises from the fact that we have a perfectly good Earthlike ecosystem here on Earth, and we can't even maintain that. So what chance do we have of constructing one from nothing? Sally "Andrew McKay" wrote in message ... I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer some thoughts? WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human habitation. So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? Obviously the vegetation would also need its own life support systems such as insects and so on, so it would generally take rather more than a packet of seeds from the garden centre. I appreciate it's not an overnight change, and it could in fact be hundreds of years (or longer) before the climate was friendly enough to support human life. The question is purely rhetorical as I'm interested to know if this would be a feasible option. Andrew Problems scheduling resources? Check out KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions! at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp |
#3
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Query about Mars
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:09:13 +0100, "Sally"
wrote: However, my scepticism to most Terraforming ideas arises from the fact that we have a perfectly good Earthlike ecosystem here on Earth, and we can't even maintain that. So what chance do we have of constructing one from nothing? With that I have to agree. Thanks for your comments. WRT to the air pressure situation, I understand. Presumably it would be feasible to build some sort of environment which could support life though? Andrew Problems scheduling resources? Check out KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions! at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp |
#4
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Query about Mars
Yes, given sufficient willpower and resources I believe that it would be
possible. There are several projects underway around the world attempting to maintain isolated mini-ecosystems. The Eden project was (I think) one of the first. It even had a small crew of people in the dome. Some valuable lessons were learned before things started to go wrong. I think that it had to be abandoned due to excessive CO2 buildup. The crew were also struggling to produce enough food from the system and lost a lot of weight. Sally "Andrew McKay" wrote in message ... Thanks for your comments. WRT to the air pressure situation, I understand. Presumably it would be feasible to build some sort of environment which could support life though? |
#5
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Query about Mars
Hi Sally that is the reason why they have to dig down for those red
Martian clams. Sponges,and clams were the first major structures in the early days of life,They strain bacteria out of water(no teeth) Moby told me this,and added that like man came from the ape octopus came from the clam. Bert |
#6
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Query about Mars
Clams are molluscs, I think. Same group as Moby and garden slugs and snails.
Last octopus I saw was in the wild, peeping at me from under a rock on the sea bed. I wonder about the chances of some local area on Mars having enough pressure/temperature/energy input to support some sort of life? I'm thinking of some sub surface location where a mini-ecosystem could survive, like the communities around black smokers here on earth. I believe that specialised clams have been found around those black smokers. Did you know that octopus eyes are similar to ours? Except their retina is the other way around with the optic nerves at the back. This means they don't have a built-in blind spot like us poor vertebrates. Sally "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message ... Hi Sally that is the reason why they have to dig down for those red Martian clams. Sponges,and clams were the first major structures in the early days of life,They strain bacteria out of water(no teeth) Moby told me this,and added that like man came from the ape octopus came from the clam. Bert |
#7
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Query about Mars
Hi Andrew My feeling is Mars has to many things that are not beneficial
for the small one cell structures to get started. These are the reasons. No magnetic field. No atmosphere to shield it from harmful space radiation.Bad temperature changes. No hard evidence of of water,and I could go on and on. Andrew if these probes that land on Mars don't find water,that to me means it will be a very long time before man steps on Mars. These probes might tell us its very much like the moon,and the moon is only three days away,and can serve the same purpose. Bert |
#8
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Query about Mars
Bert posted:
No magnetic field. Now now, Bert, we have been through this before. Although Mars does not have a well-developed global bipolar field like that of the Earth, it *does* have a magnetic field. Please go to the following URL and read the article: http://mgs-mager.gsfc.nasa.gov/publi...connerney.html No atmosphere to shield it from harmful space radiation. Bert, you simply *have* to start watching what you say! Mars *does* have an atmosphere. It provides *some* protection from radiation from space, although its protecting ability is somewhat limited compared to that of the Earth. -- David W. Knisely Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/ ********************************************** * Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY * * July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir * * http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org * ********************************************** |
#9
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Query about Mars
David you use "some" protection I see that as not a hell of a lot. Even
find dust particles that would burn up in earth's atmosphere could easily come down and make it to the surface of Mars(yes) Mars has only 1% of the earth's atmosphere. Its surface is dust. the moon's surface is dust. David because you challenge me on water on Mars I have now gone from clams 50 feet down to worms. David I am so glad that by Christmas the probes will all be landing,and I hope I'm wrong and your right. Your thinking is why the probes vare on there way. Your thinking is mush more intriguing than dust storms creating erosion. When I was young and there were Mars pictures of those straight cress crossed lines on Mars,and they were canals of running water I went along with that theory.I preached it an ended up with egg on my face. David we have had other lander pictures,and they show a dry surface. I still have egg on my face, Mars is a dry planet. That is my gut feeling as of now Bert |
#10
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Query about Mars
Bert posted:
David you use "some" protection I see that as not a hell of a lot. Even find dust particles that would burn up in earth's atmosphere could easily come down and make it to the surface of Mars(yes) No. Most micrometoroids and smaller meteoroids do *not* make it to the surface of Mars. The atmosphere is thick enough to stop that. Larger objects can make it down, but the lack of a continuuum of smaller impact craters clearly shows the weak but noticable shielding effect that the thin Martian atmosphere has. Mars has only 1% of the earth's atmosphere. Again, you have to clarify what you have said. The average atmospheric *pressure* on Mars is about 7 millibars, which is about 0.69 percent of the pressure on the Earth at sea level. The approximate mass of the Martian atmosphere is about 4.1 x 10^16 kg. The mass of the Earth's atmosphere is about 5.6 x 10^18 kg, so the Martian atmosphere is only 0.73 percent of the mass of the Earth's atmosphere. This is *less* than one percent of the Earth's atmosphere. Its surface is dust. Its surface has *some* dust on it. There are quite large areas of solid exposed bedrock as well, along with a huge population of small rocks and larger nearly boulder-sized rocks. The surface is very rough and not covered with the very thick and finely-gardened regolith that is found on the moon. This clearly shows that the surface is being protected from continual bombardment by small objects over much of its history, which is in stark contrast to the surface of the moon David because you challenge me on water on Mars I have now gone from clams 50 feet down to worms. Nope, I challenge you because you can't seem to get very many of the facts right. You say that Mars has no atmosphere (which is just plain wrong), and no magnetic field, which is inaccurate. Your thinking is mush more intriguing than dust storms creating erosion. Back to the childish insults again I see (sigh). Mars is a dry planet Compared to the Earth or Europa, it may be. However, it has a great deal more water than bodies like Mercury or the moon have, and there are *facts* to support this. You seem to be ingoring the facts again. Why is that Bert? -- David W. Knisely Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/ ********************************************** * Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY * * July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir * * http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org * ********************************************** |
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