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The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 17th 10, 02:23 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...


Fighting an illegal colonial war with our hands tied behind our back?



Legitimacy only flows from the people. Tell me, exactly
how do the Afghan people in and around Marjah feel about this
offensive? What were the poll results? When was it debated and
by who? Was there a referendum, and what were the results?

The UN, and common decency, has ruled it legal for us to attempt
to return the ability of the Afghan people to make those decisions
by themselves. To return the country to the people of Afghanistan and
out of the hands of 10th century Lords of Repression and Drugs.



The huge oil and gas reserves around the Caspian are of global
importance (second to the Middle East === thus war on Iraq).
Afghanistan is a transit route to Pakistan, India and China.
You can control levers of power if you have some control over
the gas and oil flows so you have bargaining power over
or can even hold back increasing power of Russia, China, India and
Pakistan.
Afghanistan has huge quantities of valuable minerals that have not
been mined.



Those arguments have some weight with Iraq, but Afghanistan
is a black hole where nations throw their national treasures and
reputations into, never to be seen again. It's the /last place on earth/
a colonial power would see as 'juicy pickings'. In any event
you fail to see the very simple tactic President Bush used in
deciding for Iraq.

We decided to take on the worst ....first. With the very sound logic
that winning that first battle means winning the rest becomes
inevitable. Marjah is equally important for the battle of Afghanistan.
Win this, and it's all downhill from here.



In a nutshell it's a geopolitical war of greed and global power,
with the Afghans as pawns and victims.
Therefore we need and want military bases in and around Afghanistan



We have military bases almost everywhere. Plenty. What we want
is to establish the domino effect within Islam. Where one dictatorship
after another falls to democracy. The domino effect only works
with things people...want, democracy. Not with dictatorships.

And the Iranians are next. It doesn't matter how dovish or professional
any US administration may be, democracies are drawn to busting up
dictatorships like moths to a flame. As you can see happening in Iran
today, dictatorships must constantly escalate tensions with the outside
world in order to prevent losing the support of the people.

Which is a timeless flaw, or viscous cycle, inherent in almost any rigid
command structure.Which is true in most dictatorships of any kind,
economic, military or religious. Doesn't matter, in the end they all go out
in a blaze of glory as a result.

Only democracy can bring long term stability, prosperity and hope.

And yes, that is in our national, geopolitical, military and economic
self interest. Which is why conflict with dictatorships are inevitable.



s



  #12  
Old February 17th 10, 04:56 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Ray O'Hara[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...


Fighting an illegal colonial war with our hands tied behind our back?



Legitimacy only flows from the people. Tell me, exactly
how do the Afghan people in and around Marjah feel about this
offensive? What were the poll results? When was it debated and
by who? Was there a referendum, and what were the results?

The UN, and common decency, has ruled it legal for us to attempt
to return the ability of the Afghan people to make those decisions
by themselves. To return the country to the people of Afghanistan and
out of the hands of 10th century Lords of Repression and Drugs.



The huge oil and gas reserves around the Caspian are of global
importance (second to the Middle East === thus war on Iraq).
Afghanistan is a transit route to Pakistan, India and China.
You can control levers of power if you have some control over
the gas and oil flows so you have bargaining power over
or can even hold back increasing power of Russia, China, India and
Pakistan.
Afghanistan has huge quantities of valuable minerals that have not
been mined.



Those arguments have some weight with Iraq, but Afghanistan
is a black hole where nations throw their national treasures and
reputations into, never to be seen again. It's the /last place on earth/
a colonial power would see as 'juicy pickings'. In any event
you fail to see the very simple tactic President Bush used in
deciding for Iraq.

We decided to take on the worst ....first. With the very sound logic
that winning that first battle means winning the rest becomes
inevitable. Marjah is equally important for the battle of Afghanistan.
Win this, and it's all downhill from here.



In a nutshell it's a geopolitical war of greed and global power,
with the Afghans as pawns and victims.
Therefore we need and want military bases in and around Afghanistan



We have military bases almost everywhere. Plenty. What we want
is to establish the domino effect within Islam. Where one dictatorship
after another falls to democracy. The domino effect only works
with things people...want, democracy. Not with dictatorships.

And the Iranians are next. It doesn't matter how dovish or professional
any US administration may be, democracies are drawn to busting up
dictatorships like moths to a flame. As you can see happening in Iran
today, dictatorships must constantly escalate tensions with the outside
world in order to prevent losing the support of the people.

Which is a timeless flaw, or viscous cycle, inherent in almost any rigid
command structure.Which is true in most dictatorships of any kind,
economic, military or religious. Doesn't matter, in the end they all go
out
in a blaze of glory as a result.

Only democracy can bring long term stability, prosperity and hope.

And yes, that is in our national, geopolitical, military and economic
self interest. Which is why conflict with dictatorships are inevitable.




if you are going to snip everything I wrote and leave something someone
wlse wrote then please remove my name.
you have committed a usenet faux pas.
I'll assume you just made a mistake this time and refrain from using terms
like "you crazy ****-head" and "****stain" but I do ask you be more careful
in the future.


  #13  
Old February 17th 10, 05:47 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
William Black[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

Legitimacy only flows from the people. Tell me, exactly
how do the Afghan people in and around Marjah feel about this
offensive?


That's easy. They'd like the very loud bangs to stop, please, right
now...

The UN, and common decency, has ruled it legal for us to attempt
to return the ability of the Afghan people to make those decisions
by themselves.


Return?

When did the people of Afghanistan ever have that right?


We have military bases almost everywhere. Plenty. What we want
is to establish the domino effect within Islam. Where one dictatorship
after another falls to democracy. The domino effect only works
with things people...want, democracy. Not with dictatorships.


The Taliban is not a dictatorship.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

  #14  
Old February 17th 10, 05:48 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...

if you are going to snip everything I wrote and leave something someone wlse
wrote then please remove my name.
you have committed a usenet faux pas.



Ya one too many indentations there, I wasn't paying attention.







  #15  
Old February 17th 10, 05:49 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
William Black[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

I think Islamic extremism is mostly funded by Iran and the heroin trade.


Everyone else thinks it is funded by Saudi Arabia and oil.

Iran is Shia, the Afghans are mostly Sunni, they'd much rather kill each
other than anyone else.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

  #16  
Old February 17th 10, 06:40 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Ray O'Hara[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

Legitimacy only flows from the people. Tell me, exactly
how do the Afghan people in and around Marjah feel about this
offensive?


That's easy. They'd like the very loud bangs to stop, please, right
now...

The UN, and common decency, has ruled it legal for us to attempt
to return the ability of the Afghan people to make those decisions
by themselves.


Return?

When did the people of Afghanistan ever have that right?


We have military bases almost everywhere. Plenty. What we want
is to establish the domino effect within Islam. Where one dictatorship
after another falls to democracy. The domino effect only works
with things people...want, democracy. Not with dictatorships.


The Taliban is not a dictatorship.


What is it? its certainly not a republican form of government.
a theoracy is a type of dictatorship


  #17  
Old February 17th 10, 06:55 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
William Black[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

Legitimacy only flows from the people. Tell me, exactly
how do the Afghan people in and around Marjah feel about this
offensive?


That's easy. They'd like the very loud bangs to stop, please, right
now...

The UN, and common decency, has ruled it legal for us to attempt
to return the ability of the Afghan people to make those decisions
by themselves.


Return?

When did the people of Afghanistan ever have that right?


We have military bases almost everywhere. Plenty. What we want
is to establish the domino effect within Islam. Where one dictatorship
after another falls to democracy. The domino effect only works
with things people...want, democracy. Not with dictatorships.


The Taliban is not a dictatorship.


What is it? its certainly not a republican form of government.
a theoracy is a type of dictatorship


It appears to have a sort of collective leadership that functions well if it
takes hits.

You know.

Like the military.

Now it can be safely assumed that this military leadership talks to some
sort of theocratic council because, unless there's an emergent religious
leader who claims sovereignty, that's how Islam runs things when it's in
power.

That's assuming we're facing a monolithic enemy, which we may not be...

A lot of what the media is calling 'The Taliban' is just the locals behaving
as they always have when a foreign army turns up.

A Pathan military leader leads the men he has with him, he traditionally
takes no tactical orders from anyone and finds his own finance and weapons.
I have seen no evidence of anything different happening yet.

The idea that the disparate warring tribes of Afghanistan have a unified
leadership is absurd.

A lot of the tribes (and clans within those tribes) would much rather shoot
at each other than an invading army, which is probably where we're getting
some of our 'friends' from.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

  #18  
Old February 17th 10, 09:49 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Andrew Swallow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behindit's Back

Ray O'Hara wrote:
"William Black" wrote in message

{snip}

The Taliban is not a dictatorship.


What is it? its certainly not a republican form of government.
a theoracy is a type of dictatorship


From the outside the Taliban feels like a group of war lords.

Andrew Swallow
  #19  
Old February 17th 10, 10:27 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
William Black[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"Andrew Swallow" wrote in message
...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
"William Black" wrote in message

{snip}

The Taliban is not a dictatorship.


What is it? its certainly not a republican form of government.
a theoracy is a type of dictatorship

From the outside the Taliban feels like a group of war lords.


No no no...

That's our side...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

  #20  
Old February 17th 10, 11:57 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behindit's Back

On Feb 17, 4:27*am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Andrew Swallow" wrote in message

...

Ray O'Hara wrote:
"William Black" wrote in message

{snip}


The Taliban is not a dictatorship.


*What is it? its certainly not a republican form of government.
a theoracy is a type of dictatorship

From the outside the Taliban feels like a group of war lords.


No no no...

That's our side...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.


Seems more like what Americans call a "Yard Sale", everyone
participates until the profits start to dwindle.
 




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