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The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 16th 10, 02:12 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jonathan
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Posts: 267
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back



Troops: Strict war rules slow Afghan offensive
(AP) - 4 hours ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...LashAD9DSPP5G0



This isn't going to be another Fallujah. But much more difficult I'm afraid.

The Taliban in this area have been in control of some half the world's
poppy crop. So I bet they'll be very well-heeled with an endless
supply of ammo and mines of all kinds.

And this time the civilians aren't fleeing.

And because of that, the troops on the ground will be operating with very
restrictive rules, but even worse, we can't make much use of air power
or other stand-off guided weapons because of the large civilian numbers.

We have both hands tied behind our back.

But we must win, I believe this is a sort of Alamo for Islamic extremism.
As that region of Afghanistan is a primary source of cash for them.

God bless our troops! We are asking so much more from them, this time!
If America can't pull this off, no one can.
So we must win!


Jonathan

s





  #2  
Old February 16th 10, 04:24 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
David E. Powell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behindit's Back

On Feb 15, 8:12*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
Troops: Strict war rules slow Afghan offensive
(AP) - 4 hours agohttp://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ie7Ds68zL9eB_hd65DF...

This isn't going to be another Fallujah. But much more difficult I'm afraid.

The Taliban in this area have been in control of some half *the world's
poppy crop. So I bet they'll be very well-heeled with an endless
supply of ammo and mines of all kinds.

And this time the civilians aren't fleeing.

And because of that, the troops on the ground will be operating with very
restrictive rules, but even worse, we can't make much use of air power
or other stand-off guided weapons because of the large civilian numbers.

We have both hands tied behind our back.

But we must win, I believe this is a sort of Alamo for Islamic extremism.
As that region of Afghanistan is a primary source of cash for them.

God bless our troops! We are asking so much more from them, this time!
If America can't pull this off, no one can.
So we must win!

Jonathan

s


Agreed. In Fallujah the USMC basically said a few weeks before
everything kicked out "Dear civilians, please leave now because when
stuff goes down it is going large." Here they are tring to operate
with the civilians in place which makes things quite a bit trickier.

However, as you say, this is important to the Taliban so perhaps it
gives the chance to really draw them in and make it a battle on our
terms. Use resources, people etc. to draw them and cut them off, then
beat them up, with the goal of taking and holding routes in and out
and taking their resource from them.
  #3  
Old February 16th 10, 10:45 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behindit's Back

David E. Powell wrote:
Agreed. In Fallujah the USMC basically said a few weeks before
everything kicked out "Dear civilians, please leave now because when
stuff goes down it is going large." Here they are tring to operate
with the civilians in place which makes things quite a bit trickier.


Which begs the question as to why the civilians didn't flee here also.
Instead they stayed, and the Taleban will melt into the civilian
population once they've hidden their weapons...and wait for us to
declare a historic victory and withdraw most of our troops...then they
will retrieve their weapons and begin a war of attrition against the
troops left to secure the area, using the civilian population as cover.
Anyway, we have captured a important Taleban leader.
He was of course captured in Pakistan, not Afghanistan:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7028598.ece

However, as you say, this is important to the Taliban so perhaps it
gives the chance to really draw them in and make it a battle on our
terms. Use resources, people etc. to draw them and cut them off, then
beat them up, with the goal of taking and holding routes in and out
and taking their resource from them.


The Russians tried that.
It didn't work.
Why are we running vast numbers of troops around in Afghanistan, when
the Taleban's commanders are up in Pakistan along with (probably) Osama
bin Laden?
We're hacking tentacles off of the octopus, but the head is in another
country, and as long as it's not killed, it can regenerate the tentacles.
What's needed is a fairly small force that can use intelligence to track
down the key Taleban/Al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan and assassinate them;
not spending a fortune trying to kill all their troops in Afghanistan.
All that's doing is bankrupting us while ****ing off the Afghan
population, which is probably why they didn't leave Marjah when we
approached, unlike they did in Fallujah.
We apparently are more hated than the Taleban, no matter how much the
Afghan population hates (and fears) the Taleban.

Pat
  #4  
Old February 16th 10, 11:12 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behindit's Back

kangarooistan wrote:
"It is going to be very hard for them to recognise who is a member of
the local population not fighting them and who is a member of the
Taliban living there who does want to fight them."


For the life of me, I can't understand how the British got sucked into
Afghanistan after their history there.
At least we got a good laugh out of the French when we asked them to
join us in the invasion of Iraq.
They remembered what happened to us after we followed them into Vietnam;
they weren't about to repeat that mistake by following _us_ into another
part of their colonial empire, Iraq.
If it weren't for all the people getting killed and money vanishing down
the toilet, the whole of the West's "War On Terror" would make a great
Monty Python movie.
It's that surreal.
Slam airplanes into three buildings, and everything goes completely nuts.
It's got a real "Dune" feel about it; bin Laden takes the water of life,
sends some Feydakin to dive their thopters into the spice storage
warehouse in Arrakeen, and the whole universe ****s its collective
pants. :-D

Pat
  #5  
Old February 16th 10, 12:31 PM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default Secret Joint Raid Captures Taliban’s Top Commander

On Feb 15, 8:12*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:


What is the Pakistani version of Miranda rights? This is cheaper than
Predators and Hellfires. Has Pakistan finally decided that they can't
support the Taliban anywhere, and certainly not inside Pakistan?


February 16, 2010
Secret Joint Raid Captures Taliban’s Top Commander
By MARK MAZZETTI and DEXTER FILKINS

WASHINGTON — The Taliban’s top military commander was captured several
days ago in Karachi, Pakistan, in a secret joint operation by
Pakistani and American intelligence forces, according to American
government officials.

The commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, is an Afghan described by
American officials as the most significant Taliban figure to be
detained since the American-led war in Afghanistan started more than
eight years ago. He ranks second in influence only to Mullah Muhammad
Omar, the Taliban’s founder and a close associate of Osama bin Laden
before the Sept. 11 attacks.

Mullah Baradar has been in Pakistani custody for several days, with
American and Pakistani intelligence officials both taking part in
interrogations, according to the officials.

It was unclear whether he was talking, but the officials said his
capture had provided a window into the Taliban and could lead to other
senior officials. Most immediately, they hope he will provide the
whereabouts of Mullah Omar, the one-eyed cleric who is the group’s
spiritual leader.

Disclosure of Mullah Baradar’s capture came as American and Afghan
forces were in the midst of a major offensive in southern Afghanistan.

His capture could cripple the Taliban’s military operations, at least
in the short term, said Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. officer who
last spring led the Obama administration’s Afghanistan and Pakistan
policy review.

Details of the raid remain murky, but officials said that it had been
carried out by Pakistan’s military spy agency, the Directorate for
Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, and that C.I.A. operatives had
accompanied the Pakistanis.

The New York Times learned of the operation on Thursday, but delayed
reporting it at the request of White House officials, who contended
that making it public would end a hugely successful intelligence-
gathering effort. The officials said that the group’s leaders had been
unaware of Mullah Baradar’s capture and that if it became public they
might cover their tracks and become more careful about communicating
with each other.

The Times is publishing the news now because White House officials
acknowledged that the capture of Mullah Baradar was becoming widely
known in the region.

Several American government officials gave details about the raid on
the condition that they not be named, because the operation was
classified.

American officials believe that besides running the Taliban’s military
operations, Mullah Baradar runs the group’s leadership council, often
called the Quetta Shura because its leaders for years have been
thought to be hiding near Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan Province
in Pakistan.

A spokesman for the Taliban insisted on Tuesday that Baradar was still
free.

“This is just rumor spread by foreigners to divert attention from the
Marja offensive,” said the spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid.

“They are facing big problems in Marja. In reality there is nothing
regarding Baradar’s arrest. He is safe and free and he is in
Afghanistan.”

The participation of Pakistan’s spy service could suggest a new level
of cooperation from Pakistan’s leaders, who have been ambivalent about
American efforts to crush the Taliban. Increasingly, the Americans
say, senior leaders in Pakistan, including the chief of its army, Gen.
Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, have gradually come around to the view that they
can no longer support the Taliban in Afghanistan — as they have
quietly done for years — without endangering themselves. Indeed,
American officials have speculated that Pakistani security officials
could have picked up Mullah Baradar long ago.

The officials said that Pakistan was leading the interrogation of
Mullah Baradar, but that Americans were also involved. The conditions
of the questioning are unclear. In its first week in office, the Obama
administration banned harsh interrogations like waterboarding by
Americans, but the Pakistanis have long been known to subject
prisoners to brutal questioning.

American intelligence officials believe that elements within
Pakistan’s security services have covertly supported the Taliban with
money and logistical help — largely out of a desire to retain some
ally inside Afghanistan for the inevitable day when the Americans
leave.

The ability of the Taliban’s top leaders to operate relatively freely
inside Pakistan has for years been a source of friction between the
ISI and the C.I.A. Americans have complained that they have given ISI
operatives the precise locations of Taliban leaders, but that the
Pakistanis usually refuse to act.

The Pakistanis have countered that the American intelligence was often
outdated, or that faulty information had been fed to the United States
by Afghanistan’s intelligence service.

For the moment it is unclear how the capture of Mullah Baradar will
affect the overall direction of the Taliban, who have so far refused
to disavow Al Qaeda and to accept the Afghan Constitution. American
officials have hoped to win over some midlevel members of the group.

Mr. Riedel, the former C.I.A. official, said that he had not heard
about Mullah Baradar’s capture before being contacted by The Times,
but that the raid constituted a “sea change in Pakistani behavior.”

In recent weeks, American officials have said they have seen
indications that the Pakistani military and spy services may finally
have begun to distance themselves from the Taliban. One Obama
administration official said Monday that the White House had “no
reason to think that anybody was double-dealing at all” in aiding in
the capture of Mullah Baradar.

A parade of American officials traveling to the Pakistani capital have
made the case that the Afghan Taliban are now aligned with groups —
like the Pakistani Taliban — that threaten the stability of the
Pakistani government.

Mullah Baradar oversees the group’s operations across its primary area
of activity in southern and western Afghanistan. While some of the
insurgent groups active in Afghanistan receive only general guidance
from their leaders, the Taliban are believed to be somewhat
hierarchical, with lower-ranking field commanders often taking
directions and orders from their leaders across the border.

In an attempt to improve the Taliban’s image both inside the country
and abroad, Mullah Baradar last year helped issue a “code of conduct”
for Taliban fighters. The handbook, small enough to be carried in the
pocket of each Taliban foot soldier, gave specific guidance about
topics including how to avoid civilian casualties, how to win the
hearts and minds of villagers, and the necessity of limiting suicide
attacks to avoid a backlash.

In recent months, a growing number of Taliban leaders are believed to
have fled to Karachi, a sprawling, chaotic city in southern Pakistan
hundreds of miles from the turbulence of the Afghan frontier. A
diplomat based in Kabul, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said
in an interview last month that Mullah Omar had moved to Karachi, and
that several of his colleagues were there, too.

The leadership council, which includes more than a dozen of the
Taliban’s best-known leaders, charts the overall direction of the war,
assigns Taliban “shadow governors” to run many Afghan provinces and
districts, and chooses battlefield commanders. It also oversees a
number of subcommittees that direct other aspects of the war, like
political, religious and military affairs.

According to Wahid Muzhda, a former Taliban official in Kabul who
stays in touch with former colleagues, the council meets every three
or four months to plot strategy. As recently as three years ago, he
said, the council had 19 members. Since then, six have been killed or
captured. Others have since filled the empty seats, he said.

Among the council members killed were Mullah Dadullah, who died during
a raid by NATO and Afghan forces in 2007. Among the captured were
Mullah Obaidullah, the Taliban defense minister, who reported to Mr.
Baradar.

“The only man more powerful than Baradar is Omar,” Mr. Muzhda said.
“He and Omar cannot meet very often because of security reasons, but
they have a very good relationship.”

Western and Afghan officials familiar with the workings of the
Taliban’s leadership have described Mullah Baradar as one of the
Taliban’s most approachable leaders, and the one most ready to
negotiate with the Afghan government.

Mediators who have worked to resolve kidnappings and other serious
issues have often approached the Taliban leadership through him.

As in the case of the reclusive Mullah Omar, the public details of
Mullah Baradar’s life are murky. According to an Interpol alert, he
was born in 1968 in Weetmak, a village in Afghanistan’s Oruzgan
Province. Terrorism experts describe him as a skilled military leader
who runs many high-level meetings of the Taliban’s top commanders in
Afghanistan.

In answers to questions submitted by Newsweek last summer, Mullah
Baradar said that he could not maintain “continuous contacts” with
Mullah Omar, but that he received advice on “important topics” from
the cleric.

In the same interview, Mullah Baradar said he welcomed a large
increase in American troops in Afghanistan because the Taliban “want
to inflict maximum losses on the Americans, which is possible only
when the Americans are present here in large numbers and come out of
their fortified places.”

Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Mullah Baradar was assigned by
Mullah Omar to assume overall command of Taliban forces in northern
Afghanistan. In that role, he oversaw a large group of battle-hardened
Arab and foreign fighters who were based in the northern cities of
Kunduz and Mazar-i-Sharif.

In November 2001, as Taliban forces collapsed after the American
invasion, Mullah Baradar and several other senior Taliban leaders were
captured by Afghan militia fighters aligned with the United States.
But Pakistani intelligence operatives intervened, and Mullah Baradar
and the other Taliban leaders were released, according to a senior
official of the Northern Alliance, the group of Afghans aligned with
the United States.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/wo...gewanted=print
  #6  
Old February 16th 10, 12:35 PM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default Secret Joint Raid Captures Taliban’s Top Commander

On Feb 16, 6:31*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:12*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

What is the Pakistani version of Miranda rights? This is cheaper than
Predators and Hellfires. Has Pakistan finally decided that they can't
support the Taliban anywhere, and certainly not inside Pakistan?

February 16, 2010
Secret Joint Raid Captures Taliban’s Top Commander
By MARK MAZZETTI and DEXTER FILKINS

WASHINGTON — The Taliban’s top military commander was captured several
days ago in Karachi, Pakistan, in a secret joint operation by
Pakistani and American intelligence forces, according to American
government officials.

The commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, is an Afghan described by
American officials as the most significant Taliban figure to be
detained since the American-led war in Afghanistan started more than
eight years ago. He ranks second in influence only to Mullah Muhammad
Omar, the Taliban’s founder and a close associate of Osama bin Laden
before the Sept. 11 attacks.

Mullah Baradar has been in Pakistani custody for several days, with
American and Pakistani intelligence officials both taking part in
interrogations, according to the officials.

It was unclear whether he was talking, but the officials said his
capture had provided a window into the Taliban and could lead to other
senior officials. Most immediately, they hope he will provide the
whereabouts of Mullah Omar, the one-eyed cleric who is the group’s
spiritual leader.

Disclosure of Mullah Baradar’s capture came as American and Afghan
forces were in the midst of a major offensive in southern Afghanistan.

His capture could cripple the Taliban’s military operations, at least
in the short term, said Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. officer who
last spring led the Obama administration’s Afghanistan and Pakistan
policy review.

Details of the raid remain murky, but officials said that it had been
carried out by Pakistan’s military spy agency, the Directorate for
Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, and that C.I.A. operatives had
accompanied the Pakistanis.

The New York Times learned of the operation on Thursday, but delayed
reporting it at the request of White House officials, who contended
that making it public would end a hugely successful intelligence-
gathering effort. The officials said that the group’s leaders had been
unaware of Mullah Baradar’s capture and that if it became public they
might cover their tracks and become more careful about communicating
with each other.

The Times is publishing the news now because White House officials
acknowledged that the capture of Mullah Baradar was becoming widely
known in the region.

Several American government officials gave details about the raid on
the condition that they not be named, because the operation was
classified.

American officials believe that besides running the Taliban’s military
operations, Mullah Baradar runs the group’s leadership council, often
called the Quetta Shura because its leaders for years have been
thought to be hiding near Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan Province
in Pakistan.

A spokesman for the Taliban insisted on Tuesday that Baradar was still
free.

“This is just rumor spread by foreigners to divert attention from the
Marja offensive,” said the spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid.

“They are facing big problems in Marja. In reality there is nothing
regarding Baradar’s arrest. He is safe and free and he is in
Afghanistan.”

The participation of Pakistan’s spy service could suggest a new level
of cooperation from Pakistan’s leaders, who have been ambivalent about
American efforts to crush the Taliban. Increasingly, the Americans
say, senior leaders in Pakistan, including the chief of its army, Gen.
Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, have gradually come around to the view that they
can no longer support the Taliban in Afghanistan — as they have
quietly done for years — without endangering themselves. Indeed,
American officials have speculated that Pakistani security officials
could have picked up Mullah Baradar long ago.

The officials said that Pakistan was leading the interrogation of
Mullah Baradar, but that Americans were also involved. The conditions
of the questioning are unclear. In its first week in office, the Obama
administration banned harsh interrogations like waterboarding by
Americans, but the Pakistanis have long been known to subject
prisoners to brutal questioning.

American intelligence officials believe that elements within
Pakistan’s security services have covertly supported the Taliban with
money and logistical help — largely out of a desire to retain some
ally inside Afghanistan for the inevitable day when the Americans
leave.

The ability of the Taliban’s top leaders to operate relatively freely
inside Pakistan has for years been a source of friction between the
ISI and the C.I.A. Americans have complained that they have given ISI
operatives the precise locations of Taliban leaders, but that the
Pakistanis usually refuse to act.

The Pakistanis have countered that the American intelligence was often
outdated, or that faulty information had been fed to the United States
by Afghanistan’s intelligence service.

For the moment it is unclear how the capture of Mullah Baradar will
affect the overall direction of the Taliban, who have so far refused
to disavow Al Qaeda and to accept the Afghan Constitution. American
officials have hoped to win over some midlevel members of the group.

Mr. Riedel, the former C.I.A. official, said that he had not heard
about Mullah Baradar’s capture before being contacted by The Times,
but that the raid constituted a “sea change in Pakistani behavior.”

In recent weeks, American officials have said they have seen
indications that the Pakistani military and spy services may finally
have begun to distance themselves from the Taliban. One Obama
administration official said Monday that the White House had “no
reason to think that anybody was double-dealing at all” in aiding in
the capture of Mullah Baradar.

A parade of American officials traveling to the Pakistani capital have
made the case that the Afghan Taliban are now aligned with groups —
like the Pakistani Taliban — that threaten the stability of the
Pakistani government.

Mullah Baradar oversees the group’s operations across its primary area
of activity in southern and western Afghanistan. While some of the
insurgent groups active in Afghanistan receive only general guidance
from their leaders, the Taliban are believed to be somewhat
hierarchical, with lower-ranking field commanders often taking
directions and orders from their leaders across the border.

In an attempt to improve the Taliban’s image both inside the country
and abroad, Mullah Baradar last year helped issue a “code of conduct”
for Taliban fighters. The handbook, small enough to be carried in the
pocket of each Taliban foot soldier, gave specific guidance about
topics including how to avoid civilian casualties, how to win the
hearts and minds of villagers, and the necessity of limiting suicide
attacks to avoid a backlash.

In recent months, a growing number of Taliban leaders are believed to
have fled to Karachi, a sprawling, chaotic city in southern Pakistan
hundreds of miles from the turbulence of the Afghan frontier. A
diplomat based in Kabul, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said
in an interview last month that Mullah Omar had moved to Karachi, and
that several of his colleagues were there, too.

The leadership council, which includes more than a dozen of the
Taliban’s best-known leaders, charts the overall direction of the war,
assigns Taliban “shadow governors” to run many Afghan provinces and
districts, and chooses battlefield commanders. It also oversees a
number of subcommittees that direct other aspects of the war, like
political, religious and military affairs.

According to Wahid Muzhda, a former Taliban official in Kabul who
stays in touch with former colleagues, the council meets every three
or four months to plot strategy. As recently as three years ago, he
said, the council had 19 members. Since then, six have been killed or
captured. Others have since filled the empty seats, he said.

Among the council members killed were Mullah Dadullah, who died during
a raid by NATO and Afghan forces in 2007. Among the captured were
Mullah Obaidullah, the Taliban defense minister, who reported to Mr.
Baradar.

“The only man more powerful than Baradar is Omar,” Mr. Muzhda said.
“He and Omar cannot meet very often because of security reasons, but
they have a very good relationship.”

Western and Afghan officials familiar with the workings of the
Taliban’s leadership have described Mullah Baradar as one of the
Taliban’s most approachable leaders, and the one most ready to
negotiate with the Afghan government.

Mediators who have worked to resolve kidnappings and other serious
issues have often approached the Taliban leadership through him.

As in the case of the reclusive Mullah Omar, the public details of
Mullah Baradar’s life are murky. According to an Interpol alert, he
was born in 1968 in Weetmak, a village in Afghanistan’s Oruzgan
Province. Terrorism experts describe him as a skilled military leader
who runs many high-level meetings of the Taliban’s top commanders in
Afghanistan.

In answers to questions submitted by Newsweek last summer, Mullah
Baradar said that he could not maintain “continuous contacts” with
Mullah Omar, but that he received advice on “important topics” from
the cleric.

In the same interview, Mullah Baradar said he welcomed a large
increase in American troops in Afghanistan because the Taliban “want
to inflict maximum losses on the Americans, which is possible only
when the Americans are present here in large numbers and come out of
their fortified places.”

Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Mullah Baradar was assigned by
Mullah Omar to assume overall command of Taliban forces in northern
Afghanistan....

read more »


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-a...,6670993.story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
  #7  
Old February 16th 10, 02:38 PM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Secret Joint Raid Captures Taliban’s Top Commander

Jack Linthicum wrote:

What is the Pakistani version of Miranda rights?


"You have the right not to speak as long as you want while we have this
cattle prod up your ass." ;-)


Pat
  #8  
Old February 16th 10, 02:56 PM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default U.S. participating in Baradar's interogation

On Feb 16, 6:35*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
On Feb 16, 6:31*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Feb 15, 8:12*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:


What is the Pakistani version of Miranda rights? This is cheaper than
Predators and Hellfires. Has Pakistan finally decided that they can't
support the Taliban anywhere, and certainly not inside Pakistan?


February 16, 2010
Secret Joint Raid Captures Taliban’s Top Commander
By MARK MAZZETTI and DEXTER FILKINS


WASHINGTON — The Taliban’s top military commander was captured several
days ago in Karachi, Pakistan, in a secret joint operation by
Pakistani and American intelligence forces, according to American
government officials.


The commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, is an Afghan described by
American officials as the most significant Taliban figure to be
detained since the American-led war in Afghanistan started more than
eight years ago. He ranks second in influence only to Mullah Muhammad
Omar, the Taliban’s founder and a close associate of Osama bin Laden
before the Sept. 11 attacks.


Mullah Baradar has been in Pakistani custody for several days, with
American and Pakistani intelligence officials both taking part in
interrogations, according to the officials.


It was unclear whether he was talking, but the officials said his
capture had provided a window into the Taliban and could lead to other
senior officials. Most immediately, they hope he will provide the
whereabouts of Mullah Omar, the one-eyed cleric who is the group’s
spiritual leader.


Disclosure of Mullah Baradar’s capture came as American and Afghan
forces were in the midst of a major offensive in southern Afghanistan.


His capture could cripple the Taliban’s military operations, at least
in the short term, said Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. officer who
last spring led the Obama administration’s Afghanistan and Pakistan
policy review.


Details of the raid remain murky, but officials said that it had been
carried out by Pakistan’s military spy agency, the Directorate for
Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, and that C.I.A. operatives had
accompanied the Pakistanis.


The New York Times learned of the operation on Thursday, but delayed
reporting it at the request of White House officials, who contended
that making it public would end a hugely successful intelligence-
gathering effort. The officials said that the group’s leaders had been
unaware of Mullah Baradar’s capture and that if it became public they
might cover their tracks and become more careful about communicating
with each other.


The Times is publishing the news now because White House officials
acknowledged that the capture of Mullah Baradar was becoming widely
known in the region.


Several American government officials gave details about the raid on
the condition that they not be named, because the operation was
classified.


American officials believe that besides running the Taliban’s military
operations, Mullah Baradar runs the group’s leadership council, often
called the Quetta Shura because its leaders for years have been
thought to be hiding near Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan Province
in Pakistan.


A spokesman for the Taliban insisted on Tuesday that Baradar was still
free.


“This is just rumor spread by foreigners to divert attention from the
Marja offensive,” said the spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid.


“They are facing big problems in Marja. In reality there is nothing
regarding Baradar’s arrest. He is safe and free and he is in
Afghanistan.”


The participation of Pakistan’s spy service could suggest a new level
of cooperation from Pakistan’s leaders, who have been ambivalent about
American efforts to crush the Taliban. Increasingly, the Americans
say, senior leaders in Pakistan, including the chief of its army, Gen.
Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, have gradually come around to the view that they
can no longer support the Taliban in Afghanistan — as they have
quietly done for years — without endangering themselves. Indeed,
American officials have speculated that Pakistani security officials
could have picked up Mullah Baradar long ago.


The officials said that Pakistan was leading the interrogation of
Mullah Baradar, but that Americans were also involved. The conditions
of the questioning are unclear. In its first week in office, the Obama
administration banned harsh interrogations like waterboarding by
Americans, but the Pakistanis have long been known to subject
prisoners to brutal questioning.


American intelligence officials believe that elements within
Pakistan’s security services have covertly supported the Taliban with
money and logistical help — largely out of a desire to retain some
ally inside Afghanistan for the inevitable day when the Americans
leave.


The ability of the Taliban’s top leaders to operate relatively freely
inside Pakistan has for years been a source of friction between the
ISI and the C.I.A. Americans have complained that they have given ISI
operatives the precise locations of Taliban leaders, but that the
Pakistanis usually refuse to act.


The Pakistanis have countered that the American intelligence was often
outdated, or that faulty information had been fed to the United States
by Afghanistan’s intelligence service.


For the moment it is unclear how the capture of Mullah Baradar will
affect the overall direction of the Taliban, who have so far refused
to disavow Al Qaeda and to accept the Afghan Constitution. American
officials have hoped to win over some midlevel members of the group.


Mr. Riedel, the former C.I.A. official, said that he had not heard
about Mullah Baradar’s capture before being contacted by The Times,
but that the raid constituted a “sea change in Pakistani behavior.”


In recent weeks, American officials have said they have seen
indications that the Pakistani military and spy services may finally
have begun to distance themselves from the Taliban. One Obama
administration official said Monday that the White House had “no
reason to think that anybody was double-dealing at all” in aiding in
the capture of Mullah Baradar.


A parade of American officials traveling to the Pakistani capital have
made the case that the Afghan Taliban are now aligned with groups —
like the Pakistani Taliban — that threaten the stability of the
Pakistani government.


Mullah Baradar oversees the group’s operations across its primary area
of activity in southern and western Afghanistan. While some of the
insurgent groups active in Afghanistan receive only general guidance
from their leaders, the Taliban are believed to be somewhat
hierarchical, with lower-ranking field commanders often taking
directions and orders from their leaders across the border.


In an attempt to improve the Taliban’s image both inside the country
and abroad, Mullah Baradar last year helped issue a “code of conduct”
for Taliban fighters. The handbook, small enough to be carried in the
pocket of each Taliban foot soldier, gave specific guidance about
topics including how to avoid civilian casualties, how to win the
hearts and minds of villagers, and the necessity of limiting suicide
attacks to avoid a backlash.


In recent months, a growing number of Taliban leaders are believed to
have fled to Karachi, a sprawling, chaotic city in southern Pakistan
hundreds of miles from the turbulence of the Afghan frontier. A
diplomat based in Kabul, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said
in an interview last month that Mullah Omar had moved to Karachi, and
that several of his colleagues were there, too.


The leadership council, which includes more than a dozen of the
Taliban’s best-known leaders, charts the overall direction of the war,
assigns Taliban “shadow governors” to run many Afghan provinces and
districts, and chooses battlefield commanders. It also oversees a
number of subcommittees that direct other aspects of the war, like
political, religious and military affairs.


According to Wahid Muzhda, a former Taliban official in Kabul who
stays in touch with former colleagues, the council meets every three
or four months to plot strategy. As recently as three years ago, he
said, the council had 19 members. Since then, six have been killed or
captured. Others have since filled the empty seats, he said.


Among the council members killed were Mullah Dadullah, who died during
a raid by NATO and Afghan forces in 2007. Among the captured were
Mullah Obaidullah, the Taliban defense minister, who reported to Mr.
Baradar.


“The only man more powerful than Baradar is Omar,” Mr. Muzhda said.
“He and Omar cannot meet very often because of security reasons, but
they have a very good relationship.”


Western and Afghan officials familiar with the workings of the
Taliban’s leadership have described Mullah Baradar as one of the
Taliban’s most approachable leaders, and the one most ready to
negotiate with the Afghan government.


Mediators who have worked to resolve kidnappings and other serious
issues have often approached the Taliban leadership through him.


As in the case of the reclusive Mullah Omar, the public details of
Mullah Baradar’s life are murky. According to an Interpol alert, he
was born in 1968 in Weetmak, a village in Afghanistan’s Oruzgan
Province. Terrorism experts describe him as a skilled military leader
who runs many high-level meetings of the Taliban’s top commanders in
Afghanistan.


In answers to questions submitted by Newsweek last summer, Mullah
Baradar said that he could not maintain “continuous contacts” with
Mullah Omar, but that he received advice on “important topics” from
the cleric.


In the same


...

read more »


  #9  
Old February 16th 10, 02:58 PM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default U.S. participating in Baradar's interogation

On Feb 16, 8:56*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:


I hit something wrong. NBC says the U.S. is participating in the
interrogation of Baradar and that CIA was part of the raid, perhaps
not in person but through information.
  #10  
Old February 17th 10, 01:34 AM posted to us.military.army,sci.space.policy,sci.military.naval
Jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back


"David E. Powell" wrote in message
...

Agreed. In Fallujah the USMC basically said a few weeks before
everything kicked out "Dear civilians, please leave now because when
stuff goes down it is going large." Here they are tring to operate
with the civilians in place which makes things quite a bit trickier.



Now today the Af\ghan military said the twelve civilians killed in
Marjah were hostages held in a house also being used
to attack US troops.

We may see a lot more of that, where the Taliban use human shields
and retreat into civilian areas hoping we'll kill as many civilians as
possible. It's the only way they can win, if the Afghan govt calls
off the offensive from too many civilian deaths. Given Karzai's past
that tactic could work.


However, as you say, this is important to the Taliban so perhaps it
gives the chance to really draw them in and make it a battle on our
terms. Use resources, people etc. to draw them and cut them off, then
beat them up, with the goal of taking and holding routes in and out
and taking their resource from them.


I think Islamic extremism is mostly funded by Iran and the heroin trade.
Let them escape to Pakistsan, it's hard to grow much poppy in the
mountains. And the Iranians are running on empty these days.
If democracy takes hold in Pakistan and Iraq, that lawless region
can't hold out for long anyway.


 




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