Space shuttle for space tourism and first stage of a TSTO.

On another forum someone reminded me, you could just use wet wings as
the propellant tanks. As a preliminary estimate, the wing volume may
be close to that of the payload bay based on a wing area of 250 square
meters and a maximum wing thickness of 1.5 meters. Then you could keep
the large shuttle payload bay to carry payloads while having close to
the same propellant load. You would need some strengthening of the
wings though, which would increase the dry weight.


Bob Clark

On Jan 6, 12:44*am, David Spain wrote:
Robert Clark writes:
*The payload bay would be converted to a fuel tank, and the second
stage of the TSTO would be carried on top or below the orbiter.

With that top or bottom mounted 2nd stage using cryogenic fuels?

Ooops, here we go again....

Unless, double hulled?

Dave

Using wet wings only as the propellant tanks would solve the problem
of a cryogenic-fueled upper stage's flaking insulation damaging the
wings of the orbiter. It would also allow quite large payloads, at
least in volume.
If used for space tourism, the payload bay could then carry many
passengers now, much more than what I had been envisioning as only 6
or so in the shuttle crew compartment. Quite a bit more also than the
6 passengers of SpaceShipTwo. With the 60 ft by 15 ft payload bay, say
you allowed a 3 ft by 3 ft space per passenger you could carry 100
passengers(!) You could then charge a much lower price per passenger,
and still make a profit.
With this many passengers the vehicle would be much more like an
airliner now, and the hypersonic transport market now becomes
potentially much more lucrative.
And this for an initial investment of $42 million.


Bob Clark

On Jan 6, 9:37*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
another ends up in someplace
weird like Abu Dhabi, and the third goes to some rich nutjob that
just has to have one to impress his friends.

No, they aren't leaving the country or going to an individual. They
will end up at NASA centers and NASM

Me wrote:

No, they aren't leaving the country or going to an individual. They
will end up at NASA centers and NASM

NASM already has one.

Pat

On Jan 7, 2:02*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
Me wrote:
No, they aren't leaving the country or going to an individual. *They
will end up at NASA centers and NASM

NASM already has one.

Pat

NASM wants and will get real one (one that flew in space)

OV-101 will be sent elsewhere (MSFC, EAFB/DFRC, USAF, etc)

On Jan 7, 1:51*pm, OM wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:02:23 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Me wrote:

No, they aren't leaving the country or going to an individual. *They
will end up at NASA centers and NASM

NASM already has one.

...According to most sources, KSC and JSC have one earmarked each, and
one source has it that Space Center Disney has been dropping strong
hints that they specifically want Discovery so they can build a new
addition to the Center and take advantage of the name as part of the
propaganda effort. That leaves just one to fight over, since NASM
doesn't need one, and somehow I doubt Marshall will get one. Best
guess is the Cosmodrome, provided they could afford to build the
protective structure.


NASM does get one to exchange with Enterprise

WPAFB, EAFB, Seattle, LA would get one before Kansas.

Robert Clark writes:
...
And this for an initial investment of $42 million.

Any estimate on the cost to retrofit the wings with
fuel tankage?

How does the orbiter launch? Vertically with a special
launch pad as it does now, or horizontally from an airstrip?

If the former, why not still use SRB's for assist?

Why discard the ET at all? If you're not using it for fuel
its a high volume space, that if rigid enough to handle
G loads with SRBs attached give you even MORE payload
volume (if not capacity because of structural limitations)
than the payload bay....

Dave

PS: For the rest of you, sorry for stoking the fire, but
I gotta know where this is going...

Something about being partial to very fast 57 Chevys...

;-)

Me wrote:

NASM wants and will get real one (one that flew in space)

OV-101 will be sent elsewhere (MSFC, EAFB/DFRC, USAF, etc)

The Star Trek fans won't like that. :-)
If they can find a place to put it indoors, the Air Force Museum should
really have one. That's going to be a problem with finding places for
them...they are fairly big, and that TPS is going to deteriorate badly
if they are kept outdoors, particularly if one ever gets hailed on.
The Kansas Cosmosphere apparently has a replica Shuttle on display;
maybe they could replace that with a real one:
http://risleyranch.blogs.com/risleyr...smosphere.html
Although their's may be shy the starboard wing.

Pat

What you all been taking today?
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
David Spain wrote:


PS: For the rest of you, sorry for stoking the fire, but
I gotta know where this is going...

Something about being partial to very fast 57 Chevys...

I'll bet the Eaglepanzees can take far higher g-loads than human
astronauts, and are more likely to perform outrageous hijinks and
hilarious monkeyshines while on-orbit also.
Wally Schirra simply put the lens cover on the TV camera when he became
angry on Apollo 7...an Eaglepanzee would have hurled feces straight at
that camera, and that would have been just for starters.
I want an all-mutant monkey crew to be my contribution to what is evolving
here.
I can think of few things more heartwarming than watching a beaked
Chimp-like creature hatch from an egg. ;-)


Pat

David Spain wrote:


PS: For the rest of you, sorry for stoking the fire, but
I gotta know where this is going...

Something about being partial to very fast 57 Chevys...

I'll bet the Eaglepanzees can take far higher g-loads than human
astronauts, and are more likely to perform outrageous hijinks and
hilarious monkeyshines while on-orbit also.
Wally Schirra simply put the lens cover on the TV camera when he became
angry on Apollo 7...an Eaglepanzee would have hurled feces straight at
that camera, and that would have been just for starters.
I want an all-mutant monkey crew to be my contribution to what is
evolving here.
I can think of few things more heartwarming than watching a beaked
Chimp-like creature hatch from an egg. ;-)


Pat