NASA formally unveils lunar exploration architecture

Brad Guth wrote:
tomcat,
OK, alright already;
http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/20...002-211915.pdf
I agree that something nuclear/atomic is going to make a given
rocket-ship or whatever spaceplane go like a bat out of hell. I've
already offered my Radium(RA226) to Radon(Rn222) ion thrusting solution
that's good for a half life of 1600 years, that's relatively safe and
worth nearly 150,000 km/s. However, as I've said before about going
fast in space, eventually out of nowhere that's detectable it's going
to bite real fast and extremely hard. The good news is, it'll happen so
quickly and with such extensive vaporising of your physically
unshielded spaceplane, that no person onboard should have any
forewarning nor feel a damn thing.



I am interested in your Radium (RA226) to Radon (Rn222) ion thrusting
solution. A good SSTP (Single Stage To the Planets) should have both
it's initial thrust with the SSME's and a good ion engine to increase
thrust as necessary and act as a back-up besides. I am under the
impression that ion engines are still in their infancy.

As to meteors and the like a computer controlled Co2 laser system
should do the trick. The U.S. Army has the ability -- announced at the
beginning of the Serb War -- to vaporize artillery shells as they fall
through the air. This is much the same thing as vaporizing meteors.
Anything really big will, of course, have to be nuked.

Radiation is a difficult problem but as I have said there are new
materials, plastic, and metal alloys that can do the job of lead at a
fraction of the weight. Also, it lightens the load to shield the body
of the astronauts with shielding in their flight suits and space suits.
Also, extra shielding for their bunk beds which should be in a
rectangular box, the box being adequately shielded. This will also
give at least some privacy for reading, sleeping . . . or whatever.


tomcat

tomcat;
Radiation is a difficult problem but as I have said there are new
materials, plastic, and metal alloys that can do the job of lead at a
fraction of the weight.
Plain old water or even sal****er, gray-water/waste-water or whatever
else is lowest in density (I'd vote for using beer) is better off for
creating fewer secondary/recoil photons, although you'll certainly need
more volume and thus a thicker outer-shield cavity that obviously can't
ever leak.

A nearly soild basalt composite with the likes of JB-Weld as a binder
is likely going to exceed 3.5 g/cm3. Could possibly create as much as a
5.6 g/cm3 composite as a compromise that's extremely tough but not half
the density of lead, thus half the secondary/recoil worth of generating
them hard-X-rays.

Also, extra shielding for their bunk beds which should be in a
rectangular box, the box being adequately shielded. This will also
give at least some privacy for reading, sleeping . . . or whatever.
I'd previously considered multi-tonne robust sleep-coffins that could
be individually (user-friendly) spun at a sufficient rate that would
induce an artificial sense of gravity, thus your notion of providing
greater density about an individual's bead is offering a perfectly
terrific idea that should be expanded upon. Even these relatively
massive items could remain in orbit along with the external shield
components, thus adding no to/from orbit mass.

As to the Radium(RA226) to Radon(Rn222) ion thrusting solution, I'm not
certain of the volume and thus available mass of Rn222 that can be
continuously derived from any given amount of Ra226. It might take a
tonne of Ra226 or perhaps as little as a kg of radium that can be
artificially excited into giving off more than it's usual share of
Rn222. If you should discover something along these lines, please let
me know. No matters what, the Rn222 ions are certainly going to deliver
greater mass and velocity than Xenon, and capable of sustaining that
for a half life of 1600 years seems like a perfectly good sort of thing
to exploit.
~

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; War is war, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.

tomcat,
I found a couple of interesting tidbits on Radon(Rn222)

http://proliberty.com/observer/20020205.htm
4. It takes seven tons of uranium ore to produce 1 gram of radium
(radium is radon's parent)
5. One gram of radium will emanate 0.0001 ml. (1 ten-millionth of a
liter) of radon per day
6. One square mile of soil six inches deep contains approx. 1 gram of
radium
7. Radium emits alpha and beta particles as well as gamma rays.
8. Radon emits alpha particles only
-
Thus without any external input, just where is as is, it looks as
though 10t worth of Ra226 = 1 liter of pure Rn222/day. However, it
seems somewhat logical that if the Ra226 was under sufficient siege
from being bombarded by hard-X-rays and cosmic influx from within the
near vacuum of space, or simply as a portion/byproduct of an onboard
reactor might otherwise accelerate the rate of decay and thus provide a
greater amount of Rn222 per tonne of Ra226.

Of course, much like the tonnage of external basalt composite armor and
of those fairly robust sleeping coffins (emergency escape/reentry pods)
that could weigh 10t each, plus any great amount of Radium(Ra226)
should also be configured for their staying in orbit so that the CNT
spaceplane could come and go from orbit without hauling such extra
mass, nor risk contaminating the environment in case the son of Osama
bin Laden gets hold of one of our gigajoule ABLs or just MOS star-wars
friendly fire via DoD R&D running amuck, which usually transpires
without a stitch of remorse, along with whatever evidence excluded or
sequestered (under penalty of death) until those NASA/Apollo cows come
home.

I'm not exactly convinced about this next somewhat unofficial looking
extract but, it certainly seems to suggest somewhat alternatively
interesting values as to what radon(Rn222) is worth having perhaps
1.5e9 calories per gram.

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/statement99.htm
When radium transforms, a great deal of energy is liberated
continuously as heat. The amount of stored energy in this
transformation is of a very high magnitude. One gram of radium evolves
about 134 calories per hour, and the total heat available is over
2,000,000,000 calories. One quarter of the generated energy comes from
the decay of radium into radon gas. The remaining three quarters comes
from the decay of the radon gas. One gram of radon, therefore
represents 1,500,000,000 calories per gram. This translates into 5,944
BTUs per gram. Therefore, one pound will generate 2,698,825,592 BTUs.
The radioactive fuel in a nuclear power plant generates 200,000,000
BTUs per pound. This means that radon gas generates 13.5 times more
BTUs than nuclear reactors pound for pound of material.
-

note; 1 cal/g = 4.1868 joule/g, thus Rn222 @1.5e9 cal/g = 6.28e9
joules/g

Unfortunately, the Radon(Rn222) phase doesn't last very long (nor does
it have to), thus it needs to be continually made on demand by way of
Radium(RA226) decay, of which radium is supposedly worth a half-life of
1600 years, which therefore seems like a lot of tiger in the tank for
creating the necessary Radon(Rn222) gas, thereby providing the
continuous supply of highly reactive go-juice as to what ion thrusters
require.

As long as this CNT spaceplane needs to incorporate a couple of 300 MJ
worth of a continuous duty energy resources for charging up and
providing the 10% duty cycle of a GJ class laser cannon (as based upon
a 33% efficiency factor) seems perfectly rational. Thus what decent
spaceplane is going anywhere without having a primary and a
spare/secondary 300 MJ reactor onboard, which seems to suggest a
perfectly good resolve for hosting the necessary tonnage of Ra226
anyway. Thereby you'll have access to that 300 MJ worth of energy that
can otherwise be (whenever not clearing a path via laser cannon)
diverted into ion thrusters that'll take the fullest advantage of all
the Radon(Rn222) you've got.
~

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; War is war, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.

Brad Guth wrote:
CNT or not, at any decent velocity is where debris avoidance seems
essential, thus radar tracking of the 0.1 m3 and larger items needs to
be good for at least 1e7 km, whereas items of less than 0.1 m3 may have
to be armor deflected or perhaps laser cannon vaporised before
impacting your spaceplane. Having a GJ class of 0.05 milliradian laser
beam at your disposal should come in real handy, thus an onboard 300 MJ
worth of a continuous energy resource for charging up and at least
providing a 10% duty cycle as based upon a 33% efficiency factor seems
perfectly rational. I mean to say, what decent spaceplane is going
anywhere without a spare 300 MJ reactor onboard?


A good point. We are in agreement that any mission beyond the Moon
will require a nuclear reactor on board. The reactor should be
similiar to the one's on board nuclear missile submarines. Simple,
easy to maintain, and safe. They should be made as light as possible,
however, since submarines can more easily carry heavy load.


Even when Venus is within merely 100 fold the distance of our moon,
that's still going to represent more than 50e6 km worth of spaceplane
frequent flyer miles each way as based upon a 18 month stay-over. If
the average in going velocity of this spaceplane were to be 50 km/s =
1e6 seconds or 278 hours = 11.6 days worth of being wide open to what
ever's coming along or gets run into. However, instead of the round
trip taking 23.2 days it's more than likely going to take 58 days due
to the fact of leaving Venus for the trek back to Earth isn't going to
have any nifty moon available as a terrific velocity booster, nor is
the gravity pull of the sun going to take any days off while the same
spaceplane thrust energy that made the average incoming velocity into
50 km/s is going to be somewhat butt dragging along at perhaps
averaging all of 12.5 km/s getting away from Venus.


Mars and Venus should not take more than a month to reach and another
month to return. Once a spaceplane reaches space the difference
between 25,000 mph and 100,000+ mph is about a 1 minute burn. This is
because gravity has lessened and thrust to weight ratio is tripled
because most of the fuel has been burned.

One good trick is to coast at escape velocity for 12 hours (coast
300,000 miles farther from the center of the Earth) before the final
burn. This will 'lessen gravity' all the more, not to mention giving
the crew a little break.

Then, as you mentioned, do a little 'slingshot' on the return, or going
to, by using a Moon, any moon or planet, in a convenient location. Add
to all this some ion engines and Mars and Venus may only be a couple of
weeks away. For real!


tomcat

Check out my previous contribution as to what the energy worth of Rn222
might have to offer.

Not including the applied electrical influx, apparently just Rn222
@1.5e9 cal/g = 6.28e9 joules/g

Now all we need is the approximate formula for the reactive net ion
thrust per MJ of applied energy of getting those hefty Rn222 ions going
in a safe method of pushing your CNT spaceplane at perhaps 1% 'c'
(3,000 km/s).
~

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; War is war, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.

FYI:

"The SpaceShip Company" was formed July 27, 2005, for the purpose of
building spaceships.

It combines the resources of Virgin Galactic and Scaled Composites.

For more information check out the URL:

http://www.scaled.com/news/2005-07-2...ip_company.htm


tomcat

tomcat,
Good 'Spaceship Company" info to know about. Even though our NASA
clearly doesn't give a flying hocky-puck on behalf of commercial and
thus private efforts, I'll offer the best of continued luck at least
from my side of any argument that's on behalf of this venture into
space.

BTW; could this firm (Scaled Composites) use another out-of-the-box
sort of guy, like myself?

Is there a viable *think-tank* (private forum) associated with Burt
Rutan or otherwise within the group?

There's nothing within my head that's opposing to what Richard Branson
has accomplished and is likely to achieve in the near future. Although,
extended (multi-orbit) LEO missions are not even 1% of a to/from moon
orbiting expedition, perhaps more like 0.1% of what even a survivable
lunar orbiting and safe return with perhaps a few robotic deployments
accomplished along the way and, if at all possible something that'll
survive via soft landing upon the lunar surface would become another
first for science.

I hope you realize that I've summarily roasted your "Paul Allen" and
especially MicroSoft on more than a few occasions? SETI is a joke and,
I believe anyone funding that anti-ET/ETI joke needs to get roasetd
because, it's been nothing but a private ruse/sting that's sucking us
dry while wasting talents and resources at the same time.

I could certainly think of all sorts of good-news/bad-news sorts of
methods and ideas that'll have damn little if anything to do with our
NASA, that's obviously too busy suckling and blowing our environment to
shreds and humanity as to ever give a tinkers damn about the future and
salvation of humanity.

I've been asked a time or two as to where I get my info and numbers
from;
I use mostly data as extracted (somewhat on a need to know basis) from
NASA, then from the regular laws of physics, from KODAK corporate and
from the ongoing hard-science afforded by so many others that know for
a matter of fact that folks like Art Deco and a bloody host of others
are nothing but another SOB pack of LLPOF loosers that should be
exterminated for their Skull and Bones crimes against humanity. I've
asked how about yourself, of which NOVA/GOOGLE infomercial of
disinformation space-toilet and/or cesspool-ology of another
perpetrated *Christ on a stick* worth of cold-wars do you get your
infomercials and moral solace of your inner most personal comfort?

If folks wish to believe in whatever born-again liars have to say, and
as such do not manage to involve public funds or otherwise actively
recruit cult members, then so be it. As equally, my observationology
and subsequent conjectures as based upon what I've interpreted as being
most likely artificial about what's situated upon Venus is just
subjectively exactly what it is. Take it or leave it.

Here's a little something else about our notions of supposedly going
back to the moon that's chuck full of those pesky numbers. Actually in
this case the NASA numbers are much worse off if we accounted for the
extra millirad/day that's incoming from the solar illuminated moon,
which certainly doesn't sound like all that much until you do the
reverse math. Then there's what continues as MOS "so what's the
difference" policy that moderating even what their MESSENGER mission
has to offer.

MESSENGER SUCKS, Venus rocks, the moon is still dark and nasty
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...4244ed3a77af9f

There's more than good enough reasons for imaging via MESSENGER to have
avoided our moon because, that moon is not only extremely dark and
nasty as all get-out, it's also extremely solar and cosmic reactive,
and the MESSENGER team most certainly did all they could in order to
avoid getting any such unfortunate images of that dark moon or of
anything other than Earth by simply using a closeup and 8-bit or less
capability of the lowest DR portion by merely using the fastest
appropriate scan of their CCD dynamic range (those efforts could easily
have been limited to as little as 6-bit as having given us the same
terrific 128:1 DR quality images of Earth). End of that discussion
because, all that the MESSENGER supporters ever intend to accomplish is
MOS dog-wagging, infomercial spin, hype and subsequent damage-control
as based upon MOS conditional laws of physics, as well as upon
implementing as much evidence exclusion as it takes.

Not that any self-respecting pro-NASA/Apollo individual is ever going
to accept the truth as to this notion that our NASA uses our solar
illuminated moon as their satellite instrument calibration of
hard-X-ray dosage but, if you ever bothered to accomplish the reverse
math upon what that alone represents as based upon the square of the
distance and lo and behold, the resulting near surface dosage
(especially of the solar illuminated deck) becomes real nasty.

There's roughly 376,284 km of surface to surface distance between the
two of us. A satellite or that of ISS at 400 km off the deck will bring
that down to 375, 884 km of least distance between their orbit and
closest distance from the lunar deck. Of course there's factors that'll
have to make the distance upon average a bit greater, thus for argument
sake of what's radiating hard-X-rays at us, lets give this distance a
factor of 380,000 km to work with.

If you'd like being ultra conservative (even though it's closer to a
millirem/day) give the measured secondary/recoil dosage that's
specifically of hard-X-rays as derived off the reactive moon as being
worth just one extra microrem (0.000001 rem) per day as measured by ISS
instruments.

Then because the Van Allen zone is such an expanse that represents a
significant shield or buffer worth a conservative attinuation factor of
100:1 makes the first half distance basis of available TBI dosage
amount to 400e-6 rem/day at being 190,000 km away from the solar
illuminated deck of the moon, with the remainder of the distance
strictly a ratio of increased TBI dosage increase as based upon the
square of the distance (each half distance = 4 fold increase in TBI
dosage).

380,000 km = 1e-6 rem/day
190,000 km = 400e-6 rem/day
95,000 km = 1600e-6 rem/day
47,500 km = 6400e-6 rem/day
23,750 km = 25.6e-3 rem/day
11,875 km = 102.4e-3 rem/day
5,938 km = 409.6e-3 rem/day
2,969 km = 1.638 rem/day
1,485 km = 6.552 rem/day
742.5 km = 26.2 rem/day
371.3 km = 104.8 rem/day
185.6 km = 419.2 rem/day

Thus even at 1 microrem/day that's impacting ISS or any other satellite
as having derived hard-X-rays off the solar reactive moon, and if going
into orbiting mode within 1r (1738 km) off the lunar deck is worth
nearly 6 rem/day. Even dividing that dosage in half because of your
orbiting the moon makes it worth 3 rem per day while orbiting 1738 km
off the deck. Of course, since this is almost entirely solar influx
generated and the sun itself is anything but a constant, thus if the
starting point of this measurement was actually based upon the extra
millirem/day instead of the extra microrem/day, as such you're now
looking at the orbiting dosage of 3,000 rem or 30 Sv/day that's of
hard-X-rays being external to your spacecraft as derived upon average
off the reactive moon.

Naturally our NASA/Apollo missions were so much closer than 1738 km off
the deck, and for those supposedly upon the deck were obviously getting
TBI nailed real good. Of course that's not possible if you'd take the
NASA/Apollo bible into account because, we're only off by a few
thousand to one.

Of course the lunar nighttime and the actual substance of the moon
itself is going to contribute it's fair share of background and
reactive cosmic sourced worth of hard-X-rays that shouldn't contribute
1% of what the solar impacted side has to offer, of which from such an
extreme orbit of 1738 km off the deck should be all that testy.
Although actually being on the nighttime/earthshine illuminated deck
it's going to be worth several rads/day if not per hour, which isn't a
problem for robotics w/o DNA.

Though as per usual, each and every day it's getting worse off, as I
seem to have gotten more than my fair share of the GOOGLE/NOVA V-Chip
spermware/malware gauntlet that's specifically associated specifically
with my MI6/NSA Usenet interactions, thus nearly always I'm having to
frequently reboot because of their ongoing efforts as to damage and/or
eliminate my existence as far as having any public Usenet access or
even so much as a working PC. This is the absolute truth and nothing
but the truth that's easily 100% provable, which only further
demonstrates that I'm essentially right about most everything, thus
worth targeting on behalf of damage-control. The excuses that it's all
my fault and that GOOGLE/NOVA and their partners MI6/NSA in crimes
against humanity can't possibly avoid nor track a given source of
spermware/malware, much less block it is another LLPOF proof-positive
that I'm right.

BTW; using a MAC isn't offering any PC form of a safe buffer or other
worthy shield against the vast expertise and gauntlet of formal
spermware/malware generated and delivered by way of GOOGLE/NOVA and
their MI6/NSA disinformation partners in crimes against humanity. It
seems they have most if not all of the back-door keys to either
operating system. Possibly Linux offers a third-party degree of
isolation, although that accomplishes nothing on behalf of our ISPs and
of other external servers taking and sharing as much info, just as
capably allowing their data and Usenet pathways to being moderated
and/or diverted as need be.
~

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; War is war, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.

Brad Guth wrote:
tomcat,
Good 'Spaceship Company" info to know about. Even though our NASA
clearly doesn't give a flying hocky-puck on behalf of commercial and
thus private efforts, I'll offer the best of continued luck at least
from my side of any argument that's on behalf of this venture into
space.

BTW; could this firm (Scaled Composites) use another out-of-the-box
sort of guy, like myself?

Is there a viable *think-tank* (private forum) associated with Burt
Rutan or otherwise within the group?

There's nothing within my head that's opposing to what Richard Branson
has accomplished and is likely to achieve in the near future. Although,
extended (multi-orbit) LEO missions are not even 1% of a to/from moon
orbiting expedition, perhaps more like 0.1% of what even a survivable
lunar orbiting and safe return with perhaps a few robotic deployments
accomplished along the way and, if at all possible something that'll
survive via soft landing upon the lunar surface would become another
first for science.

I hope you realize that I've summarily roasted your "Paul Allen" and
especially MicroSoft on more than a few occasions? SETI is a joke and,
I believe anyone funding that anti-ET/ETI joke needs to get roasetd
because, it's been nothing but a private ruse/sting that's sucking us
dry while wasting talents and resources at the same time.

I could certainly think of all sorts of good-news/bad-news sorts of
methods and ideas that'll have damn little if anything to do with our
NASA, that's obviously too busy suckling and blowing our environment to
shreds and humanity as to ever give a tinkers damn about the future and
salvation of humanity.



What Burt Rutan and Sir Richard Branson are doing is magnificent!
Outer Space is wide open. And, 'The Spaceship Company' is gearing up
for the Space Rush.

Scaled Composites URL:

http://www.scaled.com/

They have proven that hypersonic flight is possible. They even made it
look easy. Spaceship One, by the way, is made of an epoxy/carbon fiber
composite. One of many materials unknown back in the 70's when
spaceplanes couldn't get financed.

BTW; could this firm (Scaled Composites) use another out-of-the-box
sort of guy, like myself?

I don't know. You will have to ask Burt Rutan.

Is there a viable *think-tank* (private forum) associated with Burt
Rutan or otherwise within the group?

Google has a Group Search feature. If it is here, you should be able
to find it.

I am inclined to agree with you that NASA isn't doing as much as they
should for manned missions into space. In fact, currently, it is the
null set. Some problem they are having with . . . ceramics. Ice keeps
falling off their ET and breaking their ceramic tiles. Last I heard it
was being blamed on 'shoddy workmanship'. They should have used
Corelle like the USAF. The USAF's Corelle missile nose cones work
perfectly.

But NASA is loaded with facts from their glorius past. One of their
best contributions, at present, is their website and database. I would
like to point out, however, that everything about the Space Shuttle --
except the aluminum/silica tiles skin and the "O" rings -- is
outstanding.

NASA proved that a waverider, near SSTO cargo hauler, is possible and
can perform well.

And, BTW, anyone that finds out about life on other planets is apt to
have a time of it with those that try to hush up the facts of our
existence.

Just because there are ancient runway strips cut into rock in South
America, perfect crystal skulls from the geologic past, biblical
references in Ezekial regarding angels and spaceships, numerous
sightings with photos of saucers and the like, thousands of people that
claim to have been abducted, and this list could go on and on, just
because of all this 'evidence' we are not supposed to believe -- not
for one second -- that aliens exist either here or . . . out there.



tomcat

tomcat;
anyone that finds out about life on other planets is apt to
have a time of it with those that try to hush up the facts
of our existence.
I like the little nudge of "hush up the facts of our existence", as
this seems to suggest there's others nearly exactly like us, if not us
(perhaps Cathars none the less).

BTW; you forgot all about the Dropa/Dzopa that still somewhat coexist.
Terrific story as to all of those micro-inscribed Drops Stones,
somewhat CDs made of once-upon-a-time polished solid rock, and they've
had hundreds of them suckers that date 10,000 BC.

I also agree that with the minor exception of supposedly walking on the
moon (perpetrated cold-war spoofology), our NASA has managed to pull
off some rather impressive though horrifically spendy results. Too bad
DoD doesn't leave their ABLs parked within the hanger instead of taking
every opportunity as to further test and evaluate their latest star-war
toys.

Here's some more of my thoughts outside the box, on behalf of your CNT
Spaceplanes that may need a little something extra that will not bust
the bank.

SPACEPLANES of CNT/Basalt Composites

Spaceplanes along with the new and improved fuels and rocket engines
may in fact need to become extensively CNT light and
thermal-dynamically tough as for their to/from LEO criteria, however
from there on up, up and away they'll also require an external physical
shield of good density as well as toughness for moderating radiation as
well as on behalf of fending off physical debris that can't otherwise
be avoided, of one tough substance that'll take on a 100 km/s impact by
at least as much as a 2 kg item, thus capable of allowing the CNT
spaceplane to be taking a rather significant licking and keep on
ticking (there's no telling from which direction, although head-on
might suggest the worse possible events if the spaceplane is making
good velocity of it's own). I believe that's only having to deal with
10e9 J (10 billion joules/s) that'll transpire into a rather nasty
initial 0.1 meter crater/gouge within a microsecond, subsequently
blowing out a good m3 worth of composite reinforced shield if not
worse, thus 10e9 x 1e6 = 1e16 j/us

Since I have no idea as to what the multi hundred million dollar if not
a billion dollar per tonne of whatever CNT is going to be capable of
defending itself and crew within. Of what I do know is that the raw
fibers of a composite basalt are individually worth 4.84 GPa in tension
mode, and obviously a whole lot more capable in compression/elastic
mode of 89 GPa as is. Basalt is also literally dirt/rock-cheap and
available almost anywhere there's a source of energy for processing the
raw basalt into such nifty fibers.

Basalt Continuous Fiber Mechanical Properties
http://www.albarrie.com/Process%20En...ro-basalt.html
Raw Basalt fiber 2.7~2.8 g/cm3 or 2700~2800 kg/m3
Tensile strength MPa 4840 (4.84 GPa)
Elastic modulus: GPa 89
Elongation at break 3.15 %

JB WELD (epoxy) Properties in lbs/psi (MPa)
http://www.jbweld.net/coldweld.html
Tensile Strength: 3960 (27.3 MPa)
Adhesion: 1800 (12.4 MPa)
Flex Strength 7320 (50.5 MPa)
Tensile Lap Shear 1040 (7.2 MPa)
Thermal Resistant to 500ºF / 260ºC
Density: 15.8lb/gal (1.87 gm cm3)

Basalt/JB-WELD(30%) matrix/composite = 2486 kg/m3
Basalt/JB-WELD(25%) matrix/composite = 2530 kg/m3
Basalt/JB-WELD(20%) matrix/composite = 2574 kg/m3
Basalt/JB-WELD(15%) matrix/composite = 2618 kg/m3
Basalt/JB-WELD(10%) matrix/composite = 2662 kg/m3

Of course micro-balloons or perhaps rather milli-balloons of basalt are
offering an entirely different group of solutions, as to creating
extremely low mass composites of R-1024/m insulation value to boot.
Thus a blend of as little as 10% fiber and 90% balloons seems perfectly
doable. Filling those balloons with the likes of H2 or just
accommodating a near vacuum (such as if having been manufactured upon
the moon) and the spaceplane might float away all by itself (especially
if situated upon Venus). I mean, how embarrassing would that be?

Since this outer basalt composite shield shouldn't be intended as a
reentry requirement, thus ordinary JB-WELD epoxy can more than
accommodate the necessary binder for fabricating the robust outer
shell, that which can remain in orbit while the naked CNT spaceplane
deals with the to/from orbit demands. Of course other ceramic certified
binders could easily make the basalt fibers themselves worthy of
spaceplane construction at less than 0.1% the cost impact of whatever
CNT products are likely to involve. Actually, if the final spaceplane
airframe mass itself isn't as much of a critical factor, whereas fiber
per fiber filled volume we're probably talking about 0.0001% the
overall cost impact of going with the likes of CNTs of sufficiently
continuous fibers. Thus per end-product volume is where a basalt
composite is going to cost roughly a million fold less than CNT, which
by the way CNT doesn't even yet exist at the necessary level of GPa
anyway.

There's no question that CNTs per kg of fiber is eventually going to
structurally outperform anything of basalt. Although, I'm not at all
convinced that the thermal stability and of radiation resistance of
basalt at less than $0.05/g isn't already superior to that of a similar
performing amount or end-product having been created of a $500/gram CNT
fiber which might actually amount to their end-product composite
costing $1000/gram, thus a rather spendy large spaceplane that'll need
a few tonnes of that stuff.

The raw $500/g cost of just the naked CNT fibers comes from the
following link.
http://www.azonano.com/details.asp?A...on%20Nanotubes

The Earth Space Elevator or LiftPort as stated by Dr. Edwards needs
every possible GPa they can get, and then some. Apparently whatever the
cost and/or impact upon the environment of Earth as for creating his
elevator tether of such spendy CNT is not even a remote factor. I'm not
sure that'll be the case with regard to any commercial spaceplane
venture where real honest to God folks will actually have to pay out
their hard earned moneys for whatever it'll take.
-

As per usual, each and every day it's getting worse off, as I seem to
have gotten more than my fair share of the GOOGLE/NOVA V-Chip
spermware/malware gauntlet that's having been specifically associated
with my MI6/NSA Usenet interactions, thus nearly always I'm having to
frequently reboot because of their ongoing efforts as to damage and/or
eliminate my existence as far as my having any public Usenet access or
even so much as a working PC. This is still the absolute ongoing truth
and nothing but the truth that's easily 100% provable, which only
further demonstrates that I'm essentially right about most everything,
thus apparently I'm worth targeting on behalf of mainstream
damage-control. The typical excuses that it's all my fault and that
GOOGLE/NOVA and their partners of MI6/NSA in crimes against humanity
can't possibly avoid nor track a given source of such
spermware/malware, much less block it is yet another LLPOF
proof-positive that I'm right.

BTW; using a MAC isn't offering any PC form of a safe Usenet buffer or
other worthy shield against the vast expertise and continually mutating
gauntlet of such incest orchestrated and thus formal spermware/malware
that's being custom generated and then so easily delivered knowingly by
way of these GOOGLE/NOVA servers on behalf of their MI6/NSA
disinformation partners in crimes against humanity. It seems they have
most if not all of the back-door keys to either operating system.
Possibly Linux offers a third-party degree of isolation, although that
accomplishes nothing on behalf of our complicit ISPs and of most other
external servers taking and sharing as much info as their bandwidth
allows, and just as capably allowing their data and Usenet pathways to
being moderated and/or diverted as DHS need be.
~

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; War is war, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.

What Burt Rutan and Sir Richard Branson are doing is magnificent!
Outer Space is wide open. And, 'The Spaceship Company' is gearing up
for the Space Rush.

Yes it's wonderful, magnificent and inspiring, but... they haven't sill
achieved 7.9 km/sec - the 1st orbital speed.





Lowering the launch costs is the problem number one for ongoing exploration
of space.



Imagine how would Portuguese, Spanish, or English explore the world seas,
and the entire globe, from 15th until 19th century if a pound of their boat
would have cost 5,000 USD? That would be impossible, and this is the primary
reason that is hampering our exploration of space.



Marko