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#11
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starship? but ........ROTFL ! :-)
In article ,
says... On 2020-03-02 12:29, wrote: I think Musk is crazy because: 1) is trying to do something better than Saturn 5 2) Saturn 5 was scrapped about 50 years ago by NASA Technology has advanced a bit since the 1960s. What is being "displayed in public" at BocaChica doesn't represent the real developmenht in my opinion. I'll take that opinion with a grain of salt since you're not an expert in the field. As someone with an aerospace engineering degree, I see a rapid design, build, test cycle that can't be hidden from the public because they're building in view of a road. Consider that the Raptor engines are being developped in a serious and private environment and are being tested with no hystericals. Yes, they're being test fired at their existing facilities in McGregor Texas. But they've actually reactivated the old vertical test stand so that they can test Raptor vertically (in addition to the two horizontal test cells they've been using): https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1233080513516077058 The glorified beer kegs build publicly at Boca Chica gives SpaceX wants to test very inexpensively some construction techniques with steel that it has no experience with. So the failure of "SN1" teach SpaceX more about how to weld steel. Maybe they will find a way to do steel, maybe they will conslude it can't be done and switch back to more modern materials. Yeah, because no one in aerospace has ever figured out how to weld stainless steel into liquid fuel propellant tanks. /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family) From above: The first successful test launch of an SM-65 Atlas missile was on 17 December 1957.[1] Approximately 350 Atlas missiles were built. The Atlas boosters would collapse under their own weight if not kept pressurized with nitrogen gas in the tanks when devoid of propellants. The Atlas booster was unusual in its use of "balloon" tanks. The rockets were made from very thin stainless steel that offered minimal or no rigid support. It was pressure in the tanks that gave the rigidity required for space flight. In order to save weight they were not painted and needed a specially designed oil to prevent rust. Note that when working with composites, small flaws in laying up the fibre that leave air bubbles can be "fatal" to the structure. So I suspect that SpaceX is at the same stage with learning to do flawless welds. If you have seen close up pictures, you will see welds havce a lot of arrows and markings along the welds. Yes. These are prototypes. You calling them "glorified beer kegs" shows your lack of knowledge about how engineering prototypes are often built. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of. |
#12
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starship? but ........ROTFL ! :-)
On Thursday, March 5, 2020 at 4:43:56 PM UTC-5, JF Mezei wrote:
On 2020-03-03 11:36, David Spain wrote: I suspect that isn't really correct. I'd have to double check but AFAIK there isn't tons of security around the McGregor test site. But MUSK isn't staging shows like he does at Boca Chica knowing geeks have cameras 7/24 pointed to it, knowing the press will report on every bowel movement seen there. (or explosive vomiting :-) The engine development has been much more "normal", out of the limelight and PR games. And one should not underestimate the success just because it has been quiet. Engines are a BIG item in any rocket especially since Raptors are not only brand new, but also based on new fuel. I think you are confusing failure with progress and are too skeptical. With composites, the key to avoiding any flaw that can lead to structural failure is the process. The process must not introduce flaws to start with. (as opposed to detecting and getting any bubbles out before it si cured). If steel welds have flaws that result in total failure, then the key is to find a welding process that does not introduce flaws. Welding outdoos near the beach isn't likely to be something that Musk knows will ever work, but still builds the beer kegs knowing they will fail. Good show. I have to imagine that SpaceX is working elsewhere on a perfect welding process (robots etc). With each "failure" you learn an incredible amount of information that can be put to practical use almost immediately. Instead of crying "fail!" after each RUD I say "progress!". But if you know that welding the rings by hand outdoors will always have imperfections, then continuuing to do so becomes a side show to entertain the space geeks because you are working elsewhere on a real solution. Off the shelf rolls of steel is cheap. And the beer keg building exercises may be more focused towards training a workforce than to build test items. And this exercise may also train the workforce on detecting welding imperfections (a process that will still be needed even if you get robots to do perfect welds). I suspect you just do not understand manufacturing techniques. You do not train a workforce by building defective items. You do know that welding stainless steel is an established practice? And that such welds and be inspected using X-ray equipment? You seem to make it clear that you do not approve of Elon Musk or his techniques. That's fine but there are other experts here that keep pointing out to you facts that you keep ignoring. If you are going to argue with experts, you'd better know something about the topics. |
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