Another successful SpaceX launch and landing

In the very early hours today (EDT), SpaceX successfully launched the
cargo Dragon transporting the IDA-2 to ISS. Also, the Falcon 9 first
stage successfully landed on LZ-1 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
This bodes well for the first planned reuse of a Falcon 9 first stage
later this year.

At the SpaceX/NASA press conference, representatives from both SpaceX
and NASA said that they will reuse a Dragon capsule for the first time
on SpX-11 or SpX-12 (future ISS resupply missions). This is big. It
means that conventional thinking at NASA is starting to change, for the
better, towards accepting reuse of hardware.

I don't know about everyone else, but this is an order of magnitude more
exciting than talking about the architecture of a 50 year old computer
used on a flags and footprints mission to the moon. Throwing away many
millions (or in NASA's case a few billions) of dollars of hardware on
each and every flight is insanity. Yet, that is exactly what NASA plans
to do with SLS/Orion.

SpaceX is shifting the manned space hardware paradigm, and it's
happening right before our very eyes.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In the very early hours today (EDT), SpaceX successfully launched the
cargo Dragon transporting the IDA-2 to ISS. Also, the Falcon 9 first
stage successfully landed on LZ-1 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
This bodes well for the first planned reuse of a Falcon 9 first stage
later this year.

At the SpaceX/NASA press conference, representatives from both SpaceX
and NASA said that they will reuse a Dragon capsule for the first time
on SpX-11 or SpX-12 (future ISS resupply missions). This is big. It
means that conventional thinking at NASA is starting to change, for the
better, towards accepting reuse of hardware.

Wow. This is huge. As you say, it's not so much the actual re-use (as we
knew SpaceX wanted to do this all along) as much as NASA's change in
thinking.

Hopefully this gets NASA a slight discount (hey, every dollar counts right?)


I don't know about everyone else, but this is an order of magnitude more
exciting than talking about the architecture of a 50 year old computer
used on a flags and footprints mission to the moon. Throwing away many
millions (or in NASA's case a few billions) of dollars of hardware on
each and every flight is insanity. Yet, that is exactly what NASA plans
to do with SLS/Orion.

SpaceX is shifting the manned space hardware paradigm, and it's
happening right before our very eyes.

Well, let's leave out "manned" for a bit longer. They're still only flying
cargo.

I don't think much will change with the Dragon 2, but let's not put the cart
ahead of the horse just yet.


Jeff

--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

Jeff Findley wrote:
In the very early hours today (EDT), SpaceX successfully launched the
cargo Dragon transporting the IDA-2 to ISS. Also, the Falcon 9 first
stage successfully landed on LZ-1 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
This bodes well for the first planned reuse of a Falcon 9 first stage
later this year.

Watching the technical webcast on YouTube, around the one-ish minute
mark it looks like there are flames above the bells but below the main
structure - would that be unburned fuel/oxidizer finding/swirling its
way into that space and igniting?

At the SpaceX/NASA press conference, representatives from both
SpaceX and NASA said that they will reuse a Dragon capsule for the
first time on SpX-11 or SpX-12 (future ISS resupply missions). This
is big. It means that conventional thinking at NASA is starting to
change, for the better, towards accepting reuse of hardware.

Re-using a salt water-landed Dragon? Or does this mean they will start
on-land landings of Dragon?

rick jones
--
the road to hell is paved with business decisions...
these opinions are mine, all mine; HPE might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hpe.com but NOT BOTH...

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 10:58:52 PM UTC+12, Jeff Findley wrote:
In the very early hours today (EDT), SpaceX successfully launched the
cargo Dragon transporting the IDA-2 to ISS. Also, the Falcon 9 first
stage successfully landed on LZ-1 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
This bodes well for the first planned reuse of a Falcon 9 first stage
later this year.

At the SpaceX/NASA press conference, representatives from both SpaceX
and NASA said that they will reuse a Dragon capsule for the first time
on SpX-11 or SpX-12 (future ISS resupply missions). This is big. It
means that conventional thinking at NASA is starting to change, for the
better, towards accepting reuse of hardware.

I don't know about everyone else, but this is an order of magnitude more
exciting than talking about the architecture of a 50 year old computer
used on a flags and footprints mission to the moon. Throwing away many
millions (or in NASA's case a few billions) of dollars of hardware on
each and every flight is insanity. Yet, that is exactly what NASA plans
to do with SLS/Orion.

SpaceX is shifting the manned space hardware paradigm, and it's
happening right before our very eyes.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

It is something I promoted at NASA's Huntsville office back in the 1990s when I sought to build a TSTO-RLV "Greenspace" for my company Orbatek back at that time. The first stage was to use a de-rated SSME and four RL-10 engines and the orbiter stage four RL-10 engines - that carried 10 tons to LEO.

There were people at NASA who were very excited, even though the fellow at TRW Aerospace, which is what I was organising to buy, started his career at Convair with the Atlas, and thought a soda can approach was the way to go given the low mass fractions. So, its not the management at NASA so much as the engineering managers in the companies. To their minds they're giving up a steady stream of revenue by building one steady rocket instead of throwaways. Also, with a high chance of failure say one launch in 25 blowing up, the thought was eventually every single reusable will crash and that is politically untenable. Airliners that crashed after 25 flights on average, would be seen as an unworkable technology. These were the thoughts back in the day.

I fought all these. I told everyone that we have to get our reliability far higher. That the rocket companies like the trains back in the Old West, would have to share in the revenue they generate, and sell transport services that grow demand for those services, rather than sell hardware.

SpaceX bought TRW's pintle fed engines, and did all these things and more. So, it was a lot more than building a reusable. Credit goes to them.

In article , says...

Jeff Findley wrote:
In the very early hours today (EDT), SpaceX successfully launched the
cargo Dragon transporting the IDA-2 to ISS. Also, the Falcon 9 first
stage successfully landed on LZ-1 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
This bodes well for the first planned reuse of a Falcon 9 first stage
later this year.

Watching the technical webcast on YouTube, around the one-ish minute
mark it looks like there are flames above the bells but below the main
structure - would that be unburned fuel/oxidizer finding/swirling its
way into that space and igniting?

Yes. This happens with pretty much every launch vehicle. Exhaust gas
recirculates into the space between the engines. Since Falcon 9 burns
LOX/kerosene, the orange flames are quite visible as the remaining
hydrocarbons in the exhaust mix with oxygen from the atmosphere and
continues to burn.

At the SpaceX/NASA press conference, representatives from both
SpaceX and NASA said that they will reuse a Dragon capsule for the
first time on SpX-11 or SpX-12 (future ISS resupply missions). This
is big. It means that conventional thinking at NASA is starting to
change, for the better, towards accepting reuse of hardware.

Re-using a salt water-landed Dragon? Or does this mean they will start
on-land landings of Dragon?

I believe I read that they announced which Dragon they will reuse, but
can't find the article again. It's one from fairly early in the
program, but I forget exactly which one. The info originally came from
the post launch news conference.

SpaceX seeking approval for two more landing zones at Cape Canaveral:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...nch/os-spacex-
landing-pads-space-coast-20160718-story.html

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

Jeff Findley wrote:

I believe I read that they announced which Dragon they will reuse, but
can't find the article again. It's one from fairly early in the
program, but I forget exactly which one. The info originally came from
the post launch news conference.

It is the one from the first successful barge landing.

--
Mvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark

In article ,
says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

I believe I read that they announced which Dragon they will reuse, but
can't find the article again. It's one from fairly early in the
program, but I forget exactly which one. The info originally came from
the post launch news conference.

It is the one from the first successful barge landing.

That's the Falcon 9 first stage they're going to reuse. But, I also
read yesterday that SpaceX plans on re-flying a Dragon capsule on an ISS
resupply mission. This would mean that eventually reuse the only
hardware expended on such a mission are the Falcon 9 second stage and
the Dragon trunk. So, the expended parts would be the least expensive
parts of both the launch vehicle and the payload.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 7:02:55 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

I believe I read that they announced which Dragon they will reuse, but
can't find the article again. It's one from fairly early in the
program, but I forget exactly which one. The info originally came from
the post launch news conference.

It is the one from the first successful barge landing.

That's the Falcon 9 first stage they're going to reuse. But, I also
read yesterday that SpaceX plans on re-flying a Dragon capsule on an ISS
resupply mission. This would mean that eventually reuse the only
hardware expended on such a mission are the Falcon 9 second stage and
the Dragon trunk. So, the expended parts would be the least expensive
parts of both the launch vehicle and the payload.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

elon has publically stated he stated he wants to reuse the second stage too.

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 7:02:55 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

I believe I read that they announced which Dragon they will reuse,
but
can't find the article again. It's one from fairly early in the
program, but I forget exactly which one. The info originally came
from
the post launch news conference.

It is the one from the first successful barge landing.

That's the Falcon 9 first stage they're going to reuse. But, I also
read yesterday that SpaceX plans on re-flying a Dragon capsule on an ISS
resupply mission. This would mean that eventually reuse the only
hardware expended on such a mission are the Falcon 9 second stage and
the Dragon trunk. So, the expended parts would be the least expensive
parts of both the launch vehicle and the payload.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

elon has publically stated he stated he wants to reuse the second stage
too.


Do keep up Bob.

We're talking about actual plans to refly hardware ACTUALLY IN HAND on a
mission in the near future.

Since they haven't even attempted to recover a 2nd stage yet, I can pretty
much guarantee the flight using reflown equipment for a space station
resupply mission will NOT include a reflown 2nd stage.


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

On 7/19/2016 7:45 AM, bob haller wrote:
elon has publically stated he stated he wants to reuse the second stage too.

Yes, I have no doubt that he 'wants' to recover second stages, and I
remember that his first animated video showing his recovery concept
included recovering second stages.

But since then, reality has had time to assert itself. Recovering a
stage from near orbital velocity won't be easy! It would take lots of
extra fuel and/or major heat shielding, plus likely a separate recovery
barge or facility. All that effort and expense would go towards
recovery of hardware that is worth far less than a first stage booster.

So has SpaceX mentioned anything about second stage recovery in the last
year or two?

I don't think so.