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Satellite observing endangered by US Gov regulation!!!



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 8th 05, 02:08 AM
JATO
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:37:55 GMT, Chris L Peterson
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:03:27 GMT, "Florian"
wrote:

My planetarium programs can still automatically download TLEs.



Hi Chris,

How does your program handle this? I use Orbitron and i don't think
it yet has the ability to logon to the space-track site using my
name and password.

-Florian


The latest version of TheSky gets its satellite elements from
Space-Track. The dialog that lets you select the element set (or
complete catalogs) of interest has boxes for username and password.
Obviously, there is no issue of redistribution here since Space-Track is
the direct source of the data.



Chris.
Lets be perfectly clear here. There most certainly is an issue with
redistribution. A user who redistributes (transfers) the data to an
unauthorized end user could be charged under any number of US codes that
carry a large fine and/or jail time.

The new version of TheSky is not redistributing the data. It is just
retrieving the data in a semi-automated fashion, using your user name and
password. Without login info (which the user must supply) the latest
version of TheSky would not be able to obtain the TLE data.

Previous versions of TheSky used celestrak.com to get it's TLE data, and
those previous versions will continue to work as long as celestrak
continues offer the TLEs. NASA had authority under the old system to grant
redistribution permission, and I would assume that celsetrak.com sought and
was granted that permission. However once the NASA-OIG site is shut down
celestrak.com had better have written permission from the Secretary of
Defense to continue providing those TLEs to the public, or they will find
themselves in a bit of hot water. I work for a major defense contractor
and I can tell you the Aerospace Corp (who runs the Space-Track website
for the gov) is a stickler for the rules. I would suspect that is why
TheSky switched to direct retrieval from Space-Track.

-JATO
http://jatobservatory.org
  #12  
Old February 8th 05, 02:49 AM
Chris L Peterson
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:08:47 GMT, JATO
wrote:

The new version of TheSky is not redistributing the data. It is just
retrieving the data in a semi-automated fashion, using your user name and
password. Without login info (which the user must supply) the latest
version of TheSky would not be able to obtain the TLE data.


Right, that's what I said. And in most cases, there is no need to
redistribute the data, since it is available directly from Space-Track.
Certainly, there is no reason for Celestrak to do so- it is really just
acting as a mirror. As far as what actually constitutes redistribution,
that remains to be seen. For instance, if there is a large meteor, and I
check Space-Track for decays and determine that there were none, I
suppose (by the letter of the agreement) that there could be a problem
if I simply stated on my website that there was no decay. I doubt there
would ever be an issue with that, however.

As I said, I don't see any need for these restrictions- IMO they simply
represent the sort of paranoia that led to things like restrictions on
nail files on planes and the creation of the Dept of Homeland Security.
But such is the reality of our times- insanity in high places. While
this new policy affecting redistribution is silly and annoying, I don't
see it having much real impact on the people using the data.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #13  
Old February 8th 05, 03:02 AM
Florian
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But such is the reality of our times- insanity in high places. While
this new policy affecting redistribution is silly and annoying, I don't
see it having much real impact on the people using the data.



I agree. It's not a big deal. And you CAN take nail files and nail =
clippers=20
onto airplanes. Safety razors and blunt scissors too. But not pointy=20
scissors, meat cleavers, sabers, baseball bats or swords...

=
http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlib...d_8_23_2004.p=
df


-Florian


  #14  
Old February 8th 05, 03:20 AM
CLT
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I agree. It's not a big deal. And you CAN take nail files and nail
clippers
onto airplanes. Safety razors and blunt scissors too. But not pointy
scissors, meat cleavers, sabers, baseball bats or swords...


http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlib..._8_23_2004.pdf

Can I take a green laser on board?

;-)

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

Are you interested in understanding optics?
Try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/

************************************


  #15  
Old February 8th 05, 03:22 AM
JATO
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:49:39 GMT, Chris L Peterson
wrote:


As I said, I don't see any need for these restrictions- IMO they simply
represent the sort of paranoia that led to things like restrictions on
nail files on planes and the creation of the Dept of Homeland Security.
But such is the reality of our times- insanity in high places. While
this new policy affecting redistribution is silly and annoying, I don't
see it having much real impact on the people using the data.

Actually I am surprised they made the data available to such a wide group
of people. I don't see that continuing. I also think at some future time
the data will eventful be restricted to people or companies with a
"justifiable" need for the data and that access will be at a cost. The US
Space Command is typically not in the "as a public service" business, that
and the fact that the Aerospace Corp is running the website. There is a
reason they took it away from NASAs control.

-JATO
http://jatobservatory.org
  #16  
Old February 8th 05, 03:31 AM
Florian
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Can I take a green laser on board?

Hah! Good question. I don't think i'd try.=20

-Florian


  #17  
Old February 8th 05, 03:43 AM
JATO
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:31:17 GMT, "Florian"
wrote:

Can I take a green laser on board?


Hah! Good question. I don't think i'd try.

-Florian

I think it would be OK to take it on board. I mean since he can't get into
the cockpit, he can't shine it in the pilot's eyes anyway. The worst he can
do is shine it out the window at innocent observers looking up into the
night sky.

-JATO
http://jatobservatory.org
  #18  
Old February 8th 05, 03:43 AM
Chris L Peterson
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:02:01 GMT, "Florian"
wrote:

I agree. It's not a big deal. And you CAN take nail files and nail clippers
onto airplanes. Safety razors and blunt scissors too. But not pointy
scissors, meat cleavers, sabers, baseball bats or swords...


Ok, but you get my point g. But I think it's paranoia that you can't
take knives and scissors, too.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
 




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