Next unmanned lunar landing -- when?

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
"Jim Oberg" wrote in news:k4O9f.61727$GQ.1369
@tornado.texas.rr.com:

Next unmanned lunar landing -- when?

I'm doing a short essay for the 40th anniversary
of the Luna-9 moon landing, and will speculate
on when unmanned lunar landings will resume.
Any crustal ball inputs or insights would be
much appreciated -- thanks in advance!!

Space Review ran an article on this subject not long ago:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/478/1

According to the article, NASA's next lander (RLEP-2) is scheduled for
2010. Japan follows with Selene-2 in 2011-13. ESA and China have long-term
plans for landers but no names or dates have been published.

Okay Jim, I will go out on a bit of a limb. The next landing will not be
American, China has the best window from 2008 to 2010. A number of Chinese
events in 2008 to align with the Olympics Games -- would be in traditional
form.

gb

Bill Higgins;
JAXA's LUNAR-A is supposed to drop a pair of penetrators, but its launch
seems to have been delayed indefinitely. "No earlier than 2006," according
to the NSSDC site. It still seems a good bet to be the next lunar landing.
That's been on hold for well over a decade.

Apparently the LUNAR-A probes would start telling us way too much truth
about our once upon a time icy proto-moon.

However, with the most recent of miniature and robust nature of such
modern instruments, chances are that my JAVELIN probes would have
accomplished an even better job at not 10% the LUNAR-A investment. Too
bad we can't honestly discuss the various methods and alternatives to
getting such affordable and reliable instrumentation implanted into our
moon. We can't even discuss the potential velocity of final impact of
anything as having been deployed from the mutual gravity-well that's
supposedly situated 60,000 km dead-center off the deck. We sure as hell
can't discuss the lunar atmosphere nor much anything as to the albedo
dark and nasty reactive surface unless it 100% conforms to the
NASA/Apollo cold-war ruse of the century.

Of course I wouldn't be deploying any of those instruments from 60,000
km. More than likely I'd try for not being greater than at a
retro-velocity all-stop at perhaps 10 km off the deck and, even at that
I'd consider a spin-open parachute for velocity-control at 5 km off the
deck. I think it's possible to do more than 100 JAVELIN probes for the
investment of what those two LUNAR-A probes have already cost us(aka
humanity), and at that apparently they're not even getting deployed for
years to come. Thus from scratch I could likely accomplish 100:1 of
what those LUNAR-A probes have to offer, which at this rate they may
never get deployed since their original technology by now is so badly
out dated.
~

Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.
Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

Jim Oberg wrote:

Next unmanned lunar landing -- when?


I'm doing a short essay for the 40th anniversary
of the Luna-9 moon landing, and will speculate
on when unmanned lunar landings will resume.



Did the Russians ever release photos or drawings of what the inflatable
landing impact limiter bag system for Luna-9 looked like in the deployed
position?

Pat

In article ,
Jorge R. Frank wrote:
My prediction? (At least for the NASA side.) Son-of-Surveyor will
repeat the path of it's parent - it will be cut after one or two
landings to provide funds for son-of-Apollo.

Huh? There were seven Surveyors launched, five of which landed.

Surveyor *was* somewhat curtailed, however; originally there were going to
be 20 of them, with much more science instrumentation on later ones. But
the loss of the "scientific" Surveyors -- ameliorated a bit by the
addition of some basic science to the later "engineering" Surveyors -- had
much more to do with schedule and launcher problems than with budget.

The schedule problem was simply that JPL had taken until mid-1964 to make
Ranger work, and Surveyor had been very much a back-burner project until
that was accomplished -- partly management problems, partly just the fact
that after so many failures, JPL's survival was riding on Ranger -- while
Apollo's schedule was *not* slipping. There just wasn't that much time
left before Apollo started doing much more ambitious surface science than
anything Surveyor could hope for. Had the most optimistic pre-fire Apollo
schedules come true, Surveyor 7 might have been roughly simultaneous with
the first manned landing. Even as it finally turned out, there would have
been time to fly only a few of the scientific Surveyors before they were
hopelessly outclassed.

And the launcher problem was that Centaur was running way behind schedule
and significantly below predicted performance, so the mass budget couldn't
acccommodate most of that instrumentation anyway. As it was, Centaur was
only barely ready for Surveyor, and there was no real chance of doing a
significant performance upgrade in time to get scientific Surveyors to the
Moon before Apollo.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

In article ,
gb wrote:
Okay Jim, I will go out on a bit of a limb. The next landing will not be
American, China has the best window from 2008 to 2010. A number of Chinese
events in 2008 to align with the Olympics Games -- would be in traditional
form.

Not practical unless they are secretly putting a lot of effort into it
right now, and there's no sign of that; their current effort seems to be
directed at launching a lunar *orbiter* around then. 2008 is a little
more than two years away, which is *not* a long time for spacecraft
engineering. They do seem to be serious about the orbiter, and my guess
would be that it is their 2008 prestige project.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

I betcha they are in the process of assembling a permanent base in orbit -
to coincide with the olympics yes...

odds on the chinese are going back to the moon first, using orbital
construction platform to get around massive heavy lift 'throw it all away'
philosophy of USA. They will build it with absolutely no wasted effort or
redundant missions.

and then on from there - Mars looms because they REALLY want to plant the
flag before the USA, and really rub it in that the USA is losing its way...

my $0.02 worth


"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
gb wrote:
Okay Jim, I will go out on a bit of a limb. The next landing will not be
American, China has the best window from 2008 to 2010. A number of
Chinese
events in 2008 to align with the Olympics Games -- would be in traditional
form.

Not practical unless they are secretly putting a lot of effort into it
right now, and there's no sign of that; their current effort seems to be
directed at launching a lunar *orbiter* around then. 2008 is a little
more than two years away, which is *not* a long time for spacecraft
engineering. They do seem to be serious about the orbiter, and my guess
would be that it is their 2008 prestige project.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

"blart" wrote in message
...
I betcha they are in the process of assembling a permanent base in orbit -
to coincide with the olympics yes...

So, how much are you willing to wager on that?



odds on the chinese are going back to the moon first, using orbital
construction platform to get around massive heavy lift 'throw it all away'
philosophy of USA. They will build it with absolutely no wasted effort or
redundant missions.

and then on from there - Mars looms because they REALLY want to plant the
flag before the USA, and really rub it in that the USA is losing its
way...

my $0.02 worth


"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
gb wrote:
Okay Jim, I will go out on a bit of a limb. The next landing will not
be
American, China has the best window from 2008 to 2010. A number of
Chinese
events in 2008 to align with the Olympics Games -- would be in
traditional
form.

Not practical unless they are secretly putting a lot of effort into it
right now, and there's no sign of that; their current effort seems to be
directed at launching a lunar *orbiter* around then. 2008 is a little
more than two years away, which is *not* a long time for spacecraft
engineering. They do seem to be serious about the orbiter, and my guess
would be that it is their 2008 prestige project.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry
Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

I betcha they are in the process of assembling a permanent base in orbit -
to coincide with the olympics yes...


odds on the chinese are going back to the moon first, using orbital
construction platform to get around massive heavy lift 'throw it all away'
philosophy of USA. They will build it with absolutely no wasted effort or
redundant missions.


and then on from there - Mars looms because they REALLY want to plant the
flag before the USA, and really rub it in that the USA is losing its way...

Not likely, Dwayne A Day has a couple of articles on the subject on
Space Review:

Red Moon. Dark Moon.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/473/1

In the service of the Emperor
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/481/1

Just my $0.02

Space Cadet

derwetzelsDASHspacecadetATyahooDOTcom


Moon Society - St. Louis Chapter

http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/stlouis/

The Moon Society is a non-profit educational and
scientific foundation formed to further scientific
study and development of the moon.

Jim Oberg wrote:
Next unmanned lunar landing -- when?


I'm doing a short essay for the 40th anniversary
of the Luna-9 moon landing, and will speculate
on when unmanned lunar landings will resume.
Any crustal ball inputs or insights would be
much appreciated -- thanks in advance!!

JimO



NASA Selects Team To Build Lunar Lander
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Space and Earth science | October 03, 2005 E-Mail Newsletter | Print |
E-Mail | Font size: - N +


NASA's Deputy Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems
Mission Directorate Doug Cooke announced Friday the selection of NASA's
Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., and Goddard Space
Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., to lead a team in the development of a
lunar lander spacecraft.


The lander is tentatively planned for launch as early as 2010. It will
demonstrate the ability for precision landings at targeted locations on
the moon; evaluate landing zone environment; and determine if lunar
resources can support a sustained human presence.

"This mission will have as a primary objective to determine whether
there is water-ice in the permanently dark areas within craters in the
moon's polar regions. The existence of water-ice has important
implications in living off the land when we return with human
explorers," Cooke said.

"The lunar lander will test critical automated descent and precision
landing capabilities needed for human landings, including surface
hazard avoidance during landing. The discoveries from this mission and
the data it collects will play a vital role in humans returning to the
moon and living there for extended periods," he added.

The Robotic Lunar Exploration Program (RLEP) program is intended to
provide a series of robotic missions to support human exploration.

The lunar lander spacecraft is the second RLEP mission. The Lunar
Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) is the first mission developed under the
RLEP. The LRO is being built at Goddard and is scheduled for launch in
2008. The orbiter will carry six instruments that will map and
photograph the lunar surface, search for surface ice deposits, and
investigate space radiation.

Copyright 2005 by Space Daily, Distributed United Press International

Wow, great find, Will -- everyone else seems to have missed it!!




"Will McLean" wrote
NASA Selects Team To Build Lunar Lander
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Space and Earth science | October 03, 2005 E-Mail Newsletter | Print |
E-Mail | Font size: - N +


NASA's Deputy Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems
Mission Directorate Doug Cooke announced Friday the selection of NASA's
Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., and Goddard Space
Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., to lead a team in the development of a
lunar lander spacecraft.


The lander is tentatively planned for launch as early as 2010. It will
demonstrate the ability for precision landings at targeted locations on
the moon; evaluate landing zone environment; and determine if lunar
resources can support a sustained human presence.

"This mission will have as a primary objective to determine whether
there is water-ice in the permanently dark areas within craters in the
moon's polar regions. The existence of water-ice has important
implications in living off the land when we return with human
explorers," Cooke said.

"The lunar lander will test critical automated descent and precision
landing capabilities needed for human landings, including surface
hazard avoidance during landing. The discoveries from this mission and
the data it collects will play a vital role in humans returning to the
moon and living there for extended periods," he added.

The Robotic Lunar Exploration Program (RLEP) program is intended to
provide a series of robotic missions to support human exploration.

The lunar lander spacecraft is the second RLEP mission. The Lunar
Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) is the first mission developed under the
RLEP. The LRO is being built at Goddard and is scheduled for launch in
2008. The orbiter will carry six instruments that will map and
photograph the lunar surface, search for surface ice deposits, and
investigate space radiation.

Copyright 2005 by Space Daily, Distributed United Press International