Saturn V's as instruments of terror, and vision of a brighter future

Today is the 10th anniversary of what is remembered as a horrific act
of terror.

What is little remembered is the motivations behind the attack,
including the 1982 Siege of Lebanon where Islamic towers were attacked
using US supplied jets, with many civilians killed. Bin Laden
specifically stated that, and other reasons. And he justified his own
targeting of civilians within the US by citing the American example
set in Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Surely each side will see the other as
being deep in the wrong, and their own side as right. That's the way
it is. That's the way it's always been throughout history. Extract
an eye for an eye, while giving little effort toward understanding the
other person's point of view.

So what does this have to do with space history? While it gives many -
the vast majority- a nice warm fuzzy feeling to cling to the belief
that all those NASA & Soviet/Russian rockets were launched "in peace
for all mankind", it takes only a cursory read to gain the
understanding that the driving force behind the Space Race was TERROR.

That race was not kicked off on October 4, 1957. It was kicked off in
August of that year when the Soviets demonstrated that they had an
operational ICBM. The R-7 was shown to have the ability to strike
within the United States without warning. Eisenhower, with the help
of folks like Majority Leader LBJ, responded by creating NASA. This
new organization was handed the Redstone IRBM booster, the Atlas ICBM
booster, the Titan ICBM booster, as well as the US Army's gigantic
Saturn booster program. NASA then strived toward the goal of
demonstrating US superiority in capability of delivering nuclear
warheads via these new ballistic missile weaponry.

....except that in order to ensure that the Cold War would not turn
hot, NASA did not attach nuclear warheads to these missile boosters.
The warheads were replaced with human beings. This substitution
served the purpose of attracting maximum attention to the superiority
of these missiles. These astronauts would promote the unstated
purpose of ICBM Power Projection - intimidation with the knowledge of
what these boosters *could* be launching into orbit instead of people.

NASA astronauts were purveyors of nuclear terror. As were Soviet
cosmonauts.

Anyone who doubts this can simply check to see how Americans responded
to Gagarin's orbit. Was there a huge country-wide celebration of a
peaceful accomplishment that benefited all humanity? The predominant
effect was that America experienced a rash of construction of Fallout
Shelters. For whatever level of admiration and awe that there may
have been, the overwhelming emotion was fear for the country's very
survival. Fear of nuclear annihilation.

Enemies change, but the pattern remains. For the US, the original
"bad guys" were the Brits, followed later by native tribes, Mexico,
Spain, Germany, Japan, Russia, ... Today all of those countries are
seen as "good guys", but the "bad guy" du jour is Al Qaeda. With the
US as the planet's monolithic superpower, no country has the strength
to stand up for their own national interests. Those interests that do
not fit in line with that of the sole superpower have to be
subversively asserted through agents like Osama bin Laden, or those
leaders who will fill his sandals.

What Osama's organization did 10 years ago today was horrible. If we
want a future world where we do not live under these kinds of threats,
then we must find an adequate solution.

What path did we choose in our 10 year effort toward making sure 9-11
does not happen again? We invaded. We attacked and invaded sovereign
nations. And nearing the 10-year point, we conducted an assault
within another sovereign nation and found Osama bin Laden. Found him,
then shot him. Dead.

Problem solved? Not quite. His body was brought out to sea and we
deep sixed it, in a move that resembled a page out of the mafia
playbook. Burials at sea are to honor those who die at sea, and
forced out of the practical necessity to not burden the ship with the
task of bringing corpses home to their families. It is highly
improper for someone to be killed on land then brought out to sea for
burial against the families' wishes.

So how satisfactory was this "fix" of killing OBL then dumping his
body? Americans partied in the streets. But there were Muslims who
partied in the streets with the attack on America 10 years ago that
they saw as a huge victory. We celebrate a violent victory for our
interests. They celebrate a violent victory for theirs.

What we have accomplished over the last 10 years is to perpetuate the
same pattern. The cycle of violence perpetuates. We await the next
attack. We await the next enemy. What we did since 2001 is to spend
trillions of dollars and sacrifice thousands of soldier's lives in the
effort to find Bin Laden and "bring him to justice".


In this same year of killing Bin Laden, we also saw the shuttle
program get killed off. Those who fantasize about grand space
programs for peaceful scientific exploration could expect some
phenomenal feats to have been accomplished with those $US trillions if
they'd been spent on Moon & Mars rockets instead of funding the
longest war in the history of the United States. But Congress does
not throw obscenely huge cash at adventure rides. Top dollars are
allocated for top interests, one huge one being national security.

But the huge irony is that pursuing security by attacking global
neighbors has the opposite effect of making one *less* secure. You
may go to the ultimate extreme of slaughtering an entire ethnicity off
the face of the planet. While this might handle the threat posed by
that one sector of society, it exposes yourself to being less secure
because those who haven't been killed off will know how tyrannical you
are, and they will trend toward seeing you as their enemy.

So how is this horribly vicious cycle of violence to be ended? How
could we best serve the memories of all those killed 10 years ago this
day? Or those killed in the 10 years since, or the thousands of years
previous?

Here is the solution that was presented in September 2001:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...a5163479?hl=en

It basically says that if we want our country to live free from the
threat of terror, then we can make a huge step toward that end by we
ourselves living in harmony in our own lives. Avoid anger, hatred and
violence in our own relationships, both in our communities and under
our own roofs. Our personal level of empathy and compassion can be
total, extending to human beings we interact with and also to animal
lives that are affected by our actions. I don't see how we can have
harmonious interactions in our families, our neighborhoods and across
nations while we continue to devour the flesh of cows and chickens and
fish in our personal choice for nourishing our own bodies.

So long as we continue to crush those weaker than us in our goal
toward thriving in this life, we will continue to feel the backlash of
pain that will ultimately return to us as a result of our callous
actions. But after we begin to care for all sentient beings including
the lowliest, be that a goatherder in Afghanistan or a mosquito
preparing to suck our blood, then we will all be uplifted as the
ultimate result of our healthier choices.

Today is a day to remember a huge tragedy. Some will see it as a
tragedy of terror that is isolated to events of one day ten years
ago. Others will see the broader pattern of terror that has spanned
all of human history, including the space race - the race that
motivated the human race to its highest heights.

Others still will extrapolate that pattern of our past into the
future, to see how weapons of fists led to sticks & stones, which led
to slings & arrows, eventually to the ultimate weapons wherein the
energy of the atomic nucleus is unleashed. The Trinity detonation of
July 16, 1945 led to the ICBM race culminating in the booster launch
on July 16, 1969 on the journey to the surface of the Moon.

From that pinnacle, there's been regression in weaponry used by weaker
entities where we've seen jet airliners used as weapons of mass
destruction. Those airliners themselves can trace their lineage to
Boeing nuclear jet bombers, and back further still to the B-29s like
Enola Gay. "Ground Zero" is a term of nuclear destruction. We've
seen the entangled history come full circle, where Bin Laden justified
killing civilians because of August 1945, and the planes used tracing
their heritage back there too. Seen at the far end of this circle are
the lunar datapoints, with their connection to weapons of mass
destruction.

So how is this historic pattern to be extrapolated forward to the
future we will make for ourselves? There have been great teachers who
have shown us how to escape the cycle of violence. People like
Siddhartha, Jesus, MLK - even Muhammad taught the path of compassion,
empathy and acceptance as superior to the path of violent
retaliation. But people who profess to be followers of their
teachings, be they Christians of Muslims or whoever, still persist in
choosing the path of the sword. Ten years ago those swords of choice
were airliners.

These four jets, with their four pilot riders, have been interpreted
as matching a description predicted as the Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse. This is not necessarily a prediction of doom, but rather
a very difficult time that can be followed by a very long period of
harmonious existence on this planet.

Ending this cycle of self-selected strife will require a change in
consciousness where our individual circle of concern is expanded by a
discrete step where people who were before seen as our enemies will
all become accepted as friends. Because if anyone is seen to be an
enemy, all that is needed is the understanding that they are acting
from their own set of values and goals. And if you had been raised in
their same set of experiences with their same set of assets they had
been given in life, then you would have made the same decisions that
they did. That goes for the landing site chosen by Neil Armstrong as
well as the WTC floor selected by Mohamed Atta. You could glimpse the
unity of demons and angels. The oneness of all that is life.

Today is commemorated as "Patriot Day". A single nation-oriented
remembrance that remains parochial. But what was taken from us was
the WORLD trade center. I look forward to the day when September 11th
is celebrated. When we as a society can look back on the intense pain
of 2001 as the pin prick that helped us to wake up from our spiritual
slumber to thrive in our new garden of Earth where all are respected.
The era before us when hate and fear yield to love and joy.


~ CT

On 11/09/2011 11:58 PM, Stuf4 wrote:



~ CT

For those who don't know, CT stands for Conspiracy Theorist.

On Sep 11, 6:58*am, Stuf4 wrote:
Today is the 10th anniversary of what is remembered as a horrific act
of terror.

What is little remembered is the motivations behind the attack,
including the 1982 Siege of Lebanon where Islamic towers were attacked
using US supplied jets, with many civilians killed. *Bin Laden
specifically stated that, and other reasons. *And he justified his own
targeting of civilians within the US by citing the American example
set in Hiroshima & Nagasaki. *Surely each side will see the other as
being deep in the wrong, and their own side as right. *That's the way
it is. *That's the way it's always been throughout history. *Extract
an eye for an eye, while giving little effort toward understanding the
other person's point of view.

So what does this have to do with space history? *While it gives many -
the vast majority- a nice warm fuzzy feeling to cling to the belief
that all those NASA & Soviet/Russian rockets were launched "in peace
for all mankind", it takes only a cursory read to gain the
understanding that the driving force behind the Space Race was TERROR.

That race was not kicked off on October 4, 1957. *It was kicked off in
August of that year when the Soviets demonstrated that they had an
operational ICBM. *The R-7 was shown to have the ability to strike
within the United States without warning. *Eisenhower, with the help
of folks like Majority Leader LBJ, responded by creating NASA. *This
new organization was handed the Redstone IRBM booster, the Atlas ICBM
booster, the Titan ICBM booster, as well as the US Army's gigantic
Saturn booster program. *NASA then strived toward the goal of
demonstrating US superiority in capability of delivering nuclear
warheads via these new ballistic missile weaponry.

...except that in order to ensure that the Cold War would not turn
hot, NASA did not attach nuclear warheads to these missile boosters.
The warheads were replaced with human beings. *This substitution
served the purpose of attracting maximum attention to the superiority
of these missiles. *These astronauts would promote the unstated
purpose of ICBM Power Projection - intimidation with the knowledge of
what these boosters *could* be launching into orbit instead of people.

NASA astronauts were purveyors of nuclear terror. *As were Soviet
cosmonauts.

Anyone who doubts this can simply check to see how Americans responded
to Gagarin's orbit. *Was there a huge country-wide celebration of a
peaceful accomplishment that benefited all humanity? *The predominant
effect was that America experienced a rash of construction of Fallout
Shelters. *For whatever level of admiration and awe that there may
have been, the overwhelming emotion was fear for the country's very
survival. *Fear of nuclear annihilation.

Enemies change, but the pattern remains. *For the US, the original
"bad guys" were the Brits, followed later by native tribes, Mexico,
Spain, Germany, Japan, Russia, ... * Today all of those countries are
seen as "good guys", but the "bad guy" du jour is Al Qaeda. *With the
US as the planet's monolithic superpower, no country has the strength
to stand up for their own national interests. *Those interests that do
not fit in line with that of the sole superpower have to be
subversively asserted through agents like Osama bin Laden, or those
leaders who will fill his sandals.

What Osama's organization did 10 years ago today was horrible. *If we
want a future world where we do not live under these kinds of threats,
then we must find an adequate solution.

What path did we choose in our 10 year effort toward making sure 9-11
does not happen again? *We invaded. *We attacked and invaded sovereign
nations. *And nearing the 10-year point, we conducted an assault
within another sovereign nation and found Osama bin Laden. *Found him,
then shot him. *Dead.

Problem solved? *Not quite. *His body was brought out to sea and we
deep sixed it, in a move that resembled a page out of the mafia
playbook. *Burials at sea are to honor those who die at sea, and
forced out of the practical necessity to not burden the ship with the
task of bringing corpses home to their families. *It is highly
improper for someone to be killed on land then brought out to sea for
burial against the families' wishes.

So how satisfactory was this "fix" of killing OBL then dumping his
body? *Americans partied in the streets. *But there were Muslims who
partied in the streets with the attack on America 10 years ago that
they saw as a huge victory. *We celebrate a violent victory for our
interests. *They celebrate a violent victory for theirs.

What we have accomplished over the last 10 years is to perpetuate the
same pattern. *The cycle of violence perpetuates. *We await the next
attack. *We await the next enemy. *What we did since 2001 is to spend
trillions of dollars and sacrifice thousands of soldier's lives in the
effort to find Bin Laden and "bring him to justice".

In this same year of killing Bin Laden, we also saw the shuttle
program get killed off. *Those who fantasize about grand space
programs for peaceful scientific exploration could expect some
phenomenal feats to have been accomplished with those $US trillions if
they'd been spent on Moon & Mars rockets instead of funding the
longest war in the history of the United States. *But Congress does
not throw obscenely huge cash at adventure rides. *Top dollars are
allocated for top interests, one huge one being national security.

But the huge irony is that pursuing security by attacking global
neighbors has the opposite effect of making one *less* secure. *You
may go to the ultimate extreme of slaughtering an entire ethnicity off
the face of the planet. *While this might handle the threat posed by
that one sector of society, it exposes yourself to being less secure
because those who haven't been killed off will know how tyrannical you
are, and they will trend toward seeing you as their enemy.

So how is this horribly vicious cycle of violence to be ended? *How
could we best serve the memories of all those killed 10 years ago this
day? *Or those killed in the 10 years since, or the thousands of years
previous?

Here is the solution that was presented in September 2001:http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...03d741a5163479...

It basically says that if we want our country to live free from the
threat of terror, then we can make a huge step toward that end by we
ourselves living in harmony in our own lives. *Avoid anger, hatred and
violence in our own relationships, both in our communities and under
our own roofs. *Our personal level of empathy and compassion can be
total, extending to human beings we interact with and also to animal
lives that are affected by our actions. *I don't see how we can have
harmonious interactions in our families, our neighborhoods and across
nations while we continue to devour the flesh of cows and chickens and
fish in our personal choice for nourishing our own bodies.

So long as we continue to crush those weaker than us in our goal
toward thriving in this life, we will continue to feel the backlash of
pain that will ultimately return to us as a result of our callous
actions. *But after we begin to care for all sentient beings including
the lowliest, be that a goatherder in Afghanistan or a mosquito
preparing to suck our blood, then we will all be uplifted as the
ultimate result of our healthier choices.

Today is a day to remember a huge tragedy. *Some will see it as a
tragedy of terror that is isolated to events of one day ten years
ago. *Others will see the broader pattern of terror that has spanned
all of human history, including the space race - the race that
motivated the human race to its highest heights.

Others still will extrapolate that pattern of our past into the
future, to see how weapons of fists led to sticks & stones, which led
to slings & arrows, eventually to the ultimate weapons wherein the
energy of the atomic nucleus is unleashed. *The Trinity detonation of
July 16, 1945 led to the ICBM race culminating in the booster launch
on July 16, 1969 on the journey to the surface of the Moon.

From that pinnacle, there's been regression in weaponry used by weaker
entities where we've seen jet airliners used as weapons of mass
destruction. *Those airliners themselves can trace their lineage to
Boeing nuclear jet bombers, and back further still to the B-29s like
Enola Gay. *"Ground Zero" is a term of nuclear destruction. *We've
seen the entangled history come full circle, where Bin Laden justified
killing civilians because of August 1945, and the planes used tracing
their heritage back there too. *Seen at the far end of this circle are
the lunar datapoints, with their connection to weapons of mass
destruction.

So how is this historic pattern to be extrapolated forward to the
future we will make for ourselves? *There have been great teachers who
have shown us how to escape the cycle of violence. *People like
Siddhartha, Jesus, MLK - even Muhammad taught the path of compassion,
empathy and acceptance as superior to the path of violent
retaliation. *But people who profess to be followers of their
teachings, be they Christians of Muslims or whoever, still persist in
choosing the path of the sword. *Ten years ago those swords of choice
were airliners.

These four jets, with their four pilot riders, have been interpreted
as matching a description predicted as the Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse. *This is not necessarily a prediction of doom, but rather
a very difficult time that can be followed by a very long period of
harmonious existence on this planet.

Ending this cycle of self-selected strife will require a change in
consciousness where our individual circle of concern is expanded by a
discrete step where people who were before seen as our enemies will
all become accepted as friends. *Because if anyone is seen to be an
enemy, all that is needed is the understanding that they are acting
from their own set of values and goals. *And if you had been raised in
their same set of experiences with their same set of assets they had
been given in life, then you would have made the same decisions that
they did. *That goes for the landing site chosen by Neil Armstrong as
well as the WTC floor selected by Mohamed Atta. *You could glimpse the
unity of demons and angels. *The oneness of all that is life.

Today is commemorated as "Patriot Day". *A single nation-oriented
remembrance that remains parochial. *But what was taken from us was
the WORLD trade center. *I look forward to the day when September 11th
is celebrated. *When we as a society can look back on the intense pain
of 2001 as the pin prick that helped us to wake up from our spiritual
slumber to thrive in our new garden of Earth where all are respected.
The era before us when hate and fear yield to love and joy.

~ CT

Provoking Muslims is mainstream status-quo for many of us, especially
of the ZNRs that have few if any morals or remorse.

Their next 9/11(s) could be a whole lot more sneaky, or obvious.
Spreading germs, microbes and spores isn't rocket science, and a tonne
of Acetone Peroxide isn't that hard to create. Computer hacking could
be one of their next efforts at giving us a bad time. Our teams of
supposed security are somewhat dysfunctional plus otherwise red-flag
colorblind, perhaps because they tend to interpret the color red as
green.

http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On 9/15/2011 8:05 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

Provoking Muslims is mainstream status-quo for many of us, especially
of the ZNRs that have few if any morals or remorse.

Their next 9/11(s) could be a whole lot more sneaky, or obvious.
Spreading germs, microbes and spores isn't rocket science, and a tonne
of Acetone Peroxide isn't that hard to create. Computer hacking could
be one of their next efforts at giving us a bad time. Our teams of
supposed security are somewhat dysfunctional plus otherwise red-flag
colorblind, perhaps because they tend to interpret the color red as
green.

http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

Guth! I feel like I've neglected you. Sorry for that. I was called out
of country on business. How ya been buddy?

From Fred J. McCall:
Stuf4 wrote:
Today is the 10th anniversary of what is remembered as a horrific act
of terror.

What is little remembered is the motivations behind the attack,

That extremist Muslims are bug**** crazy? *No, we remember that.

Ramzi Yousef is nephew to 9-11 mastermind KSM. Yousef created the
Bojinka Airliner Plot, and is said to be the one to have given his
uncle KSM the idea for the 9-11 plan. Brad Garrett is the FBI agent
who interrogated Yousef about the 1992 WTC bombing where Yousef
admitted that he had masterminded it. Here's the story Garrett
relates:

"He said, you have to understand that this is not personal. I'm
enjoying talking to you. He said, I don't have anything against you.
What I'm opposed to, and my group is opposed to are US policies with
Israel. And he said, you know, the Israeli's are killing
Palestinian's and other people of the Muslim faith, and it's not
right. And we believe if we inflict enough damage on you, you'll
change your policies.

So that was his mindset. Not crazy. Articulate. Knew what he wanted
to do. Had a plan. And like a good soldier, he carried it out."


You don't have to take my word for it. You can listen to this FBI
guy's words straight from his own mouth:

CIA Confidential - 9/11 Mastermind (NatGeo)
(pt1of3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epywSRbNqzA&t=14m42s
(pt2of3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv1a-jkXO9o

You and the vast majority of America sees the likes of Yousef and KSM
and Bin Laden as "bug**** crazy". Here's an FBI interrogator who
understands them to be good intelligent soldiers fighting in a war for
their cause.

A very long time ago, a dude named Sun Tzu cautioned us to "Know your
enemy". You can assess for yourself as to how completely someone like
Garrett has followed through on that advice, versus the rest of
America's level of understanding.

Then there are those who go further than Sun Tzu, because there was
another great teacher who advised us to "Love your enemies". If this
teaching is embraced, an amazing realization takes hold. With
achieving a state of unconditional acceptance of those who inflict
pain upon us, we no longer see them as an enemy at all. We know that
there are reasons why they did what they did. Any anger and hatred we
may have felt melts away into empathy and compassion. It is then seen
that they are not an enemy at all. With new eyes, we see them as our
friends.

So this teaching can be stated at the deeper level that, "If you love
your enemies completely, you will realize that you have no enemies at
all."


~ CT


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

From Alan Erskine:
On 11/09/2011 11:58 PM, Stuf4 wrote:



~ CT

For those who don't know, CT stands for Conspiracy Theorist.

Attempting to dismiss my arguments as a Conspiracy Theory strikes me
as being along the lines of the standard effort to dismiss tactics of
OBL, KSM, Yousef & Co as "terrorists". Brandish the derrogatory
label, and you can walk away with your hands washed from any need to
address the points that have been raised.

I myself refuse to dismiss what happened on 9-11 and the reasons *why*
it happened simply because non-conventional warfare methods were
used. History shows that it is what the weak resort to when
struggling to make any impact at all against the grossly asymetrically
strong. The estute historian will recognize that Al Qaeda's
"terrorist" methods against the United States is a parallel to the
methods that George Washington, Nathan Hale, et al resorted to when
struggling against the outrageously powerful British Crown. Had
England succeded in squashing the rebellion, we could probably expect
that they all would have been hanged and today's history books would
categorize the folks we today call the Founding Fathers as
"terrorists" instead.


So in my lead post I explained how the Saturn V's were used as
instruments of terror. Instead of addressing any issues of fact in
what was stated, it is much more convenient to write it off as a
conspiracy theory. No need to go any further into it than that.

....except to call it a conspiracy theory makes no sense that I can
see. The entire NASA human spaceflight program was executed in total
openness. No effort was made to mask the fact that Shepard was riding
atop an IRBM booster. Glenn, Grissom & Young were riding atop an ICBM
boosters along with the others. The Saturns were just the hyper-
steroid enhanced extension of that. No one tried to hide the fact.

Quite to the contrary, JFK gave public speeches in places like Rice
Stadium where he spoke explicitly about things like how the Mariner
navigation accomplishment (as I recall) was equivalent to landing a
warhead between the 40-yardlines of that Rice gridiron he was speaking
at. "Peaceful" spaceflight technology translated DIRECTLY to nuclear
warfighting capability. Terror.


You're all free to dismiss these irrefutable facts any way you wish.

The concept is known as "hidden in plain sight". People fail to
recognize what is standing right in front of them, simply because
there is incongruity between what they desire to see versus what is
there.


~ CT

From Brad Guth:

Provoking Muslims is mainstream status-quo for many of us, especially
of the ZNRs that have few if any morals or remorse.

Their next 9/11(s) could be a whole lot more sneaky, or obvious.
Spreading germs, microbes and spores isn't rocket science, and a tonne
of Acetone Peroxide isn't that hard to create. *Computer hacking could
be one of their next efforts at giving us a bad time. *Our teams of
supposed security are somewhat dysfunctional plus otherwise red-flag
colorblind, perhaps because they tend to interpret the color red as
green.

I see the most effective solution as getting all parties with a vested
interest together and working out a solution so that everyone's needs
are met to the best extent possible. And even if the end result is
not successful, the very *process* of doing so communicates a deep
level of compassion which has the effect of calming the intensely
disgruntled. They might not get what they want this time around, but
they can hope that the next time they'll get closer to their goal.

Does anyone here believe that any person chooses to become a suicide
bomber because they prefer death over the best that life can offer to
them? They choose death because they've lost hope of achieving
improvement by any other means. I've yet to hear of a case where a
person becomes a suicide bomber because they were depressed. They do
it because they're angry.

If the US performs a radical top-down reform of our foreign policy,
that will be a HUGE first step toward making our country more secure.
And the planet too. Just look at it from the angle of fiscal
responsibility. Someone please explain to me why we spend billions
maintaining military bases in places like the UK, Germany and Japan.
We are several wars beyond WWII and the Cold War, yet the tentacles
remain fully flexed.

The Founding Fathers would have been nauseated to know that they were
building a country that was going to militarize the entire planet in
the way we do today.


~ CT

**** off ******. Shouldn't you be worshiping the world's most notorious
pedophile about now?

From Rusty Shackleford :
**** off ******. *Shouldn't you be worshiping the world's most notorious
pedophile about now?

Cycle of hatred and violence. I certainly was not expecting it to
stop immediately because of anything I posted. But I had hoped it
would have been given a slightly longer pause than that, Rusty.

~ CT