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Question for veteran satellite observers..



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 4th 04, 10:04 AM
Ed Cannon
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Default Question for veteran satellite observers..

Bill Thompson says...

Ed Cannon wrote:

... possible ... that official satellite
elements may be withdrawn from public availability in May.
See these articles:


http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Dec-2003/0248.html
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Dec-2003/0359.html


After looking at these messages, I can't understand the rationale
behind this bizarre decision.


Basically, they can't face the fact that big expensive spysats are
easy for motivated amateurs to track. (Also, for some crazy reason,
they won't release elements for vehicles that launch classified
satellites, even though there's no security risk there that I can
imagine. But what do I know?)

There may be an element of privatization of everything and wanting
more revenue involved. It could even be industry people. I've read
that commercial weather outfits really don't like it that the
government provides weather data to the public for free. But I
figure that really we pay for it in taxes already, like so many
things. So maybe some aerospace industry people are just looking
for another few dollars in revenue via this, and it fits in with
the weird thinking of security maniacs.

It's so ironic with security maniacs -- the only people who didn't
know about Area 51 for a long time were US taxpayers. The Soviets
had satellite photos of it long ago. I figure it's the same with
satellites. If they withdraw the elements, it won't affect other
nations that matter. Does anyone think that Russian, China, and
even India can't track satellites with radar, not to mention
visually? I figure that those all, along with others, track many
many satellites now, so the withdrawal of USA-supplied elements
won't affect them. And amateurs will continue to supply data on
classified satellites. It's almost like when China was trying
to control news getting in (back around Tienanmen Square times),
but it was getting in anyway via fax machines, shortwave radios,
etc.

I'm hoping that at least a fair minority of orbital elements will
remain available due to there being no point at all in them not
being so.

Didn't it occur to anyone that amateur
observers might prove to be a security asset? If someone launches
a satellite covered with radar-absorbent material, the government
might need a large number of experienced satellite spotters to
watch the object.


Of course the USA has advanced visual tracking also, but it's
conceivable that an amateur network could add significant data.

Is there anyone in the government we can write to and ask to
get this changed? (Senators? Congressmen? I'm not sure that any
of mine can read, but I'd write them anyway if it would help.)

--Bill Thompson


Maybe senators and a congressman might be worth a letter, as well
as the president. I wish I could drive up to Crawford some
evening and show Mr. Bush how easy they are to see and explain to
him how a smart adolescent with binoculars and a PC can track
them. Ted Molczan learned to track them when he was a kid,
before there were any PCs. (I just tried unsuccessfully to find
his message to SeeSat-L where he wrote about that.)

Ed Cannon - - Austin, Texas, USA

  #12  
Old January 5th 04, 02:56 AM
Mervo
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Default Question for veteran satellite observers..

My satellite tracking started with PC-Track, by Thomas Johnson (Sp) before
the advent of Internet and this program had a valuable display which showed
satellites in real time overhead. The centre of the display was where I was
located. Unfortunately, since the program was for early DOS, it became
outdated.

My current satellite observations are basically ad hoc. I do it when the
desire overtakes me.

I use two satellite tracking programs which are totally free. Satscape and
Orbitron, the latter having a very valuable overhead display, referred to as
a Radar Screen - similar to the one as mentioned in PC track.

I am not in the least interested in those small-size satellite tracking
programs which are either DOS based or require the manual insertion of TLE's
or other data.

In addition, I have found that most of the more commercial programs are
not very good for my requirements. IMHO, The irony being that Satscape and
Orbitron beats the pants off most of them.

I should mention that the two programs I have mentioned have prediction
capabilities which can be saved as text files.

It surprises me somewhat that a few satellite tracking guru's websites
feature links to archaic/unwieldy satellite tracking applications such as
Traksat and STSplus to the detriment of Satscape and Orbitron. Such programs
were good in their day.

With the two programs I have mentioned, updating elements is a breeze and is
done whilst connected to the net.

Computer time can also be synchronised, imperative for viewing satellites.


"Allison Kirkpatrick" wrote in message
om...
How do you go about planning for a "session" of satellite observing? I
understand how to come up with pass predictions for any satellite
using software, online services like Heavens Above, etc., but I do not
know how to "choose" satellites without it being laborious. For
example, I just spent an hour or so typing in "Lacrosse 2", "Lacrosse
3", etc. at the Heavens Above web site to see what interesting
satellites might be visible the next night or two from my location,
but I found very few passes. This seems like a very inefficient way to
go about planning, so what do you guys do? Do you pick out the
interesting satellites, calculate when they will make favorable passes
many days in advance, and then mark those on a calendar of some sort?
Is there some software that you can use to do this? Thanks very much
for your help.











  #13  
Old January 5th 04, 02:56 AM
Mervo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question for veteran satellite observers..

My satellite tracking started with PC-Track, by Thomas Johnson (Sp) before
the advent of Internet and this program had a valuable display which showed
satellites in real time overhead. The centre of the display was where I was
located. Unfortunately, since the program was for early DOS, it became
outdated.

My current satellite observations are basically ad hoc. I do it when the
desire overtakes me.

I use two satellite tracking programs which are totally free. Satscape and
Orbitron, the latter having a very valuable overhead display, referred to as
a Radar Screen - similar to the one as mentioned in PC track.

I am not in the least interested in those small-size satellite tracking
programs which are either DOS based or require the manual insertion of TLE's
or other data.

In addition, I have found that most of the more commercial programs are
not very good for my requirements. IMHO, The irony being that Satscape and
Orbitron beats the pants off most of them.

I should mention that the two programs I have mentioned have prediction
capabilities which can be saved as text files.

It surprises me somewhat that a few satellite tracking guru's websites
feature links to archaic/unwieldy satellite tracking applications such as
Traksat and STSplus to the detriment of Satscape and Orbitron. Such programs
were good in their day.

With the two programs I have mentioned, updating elements is a breeze and is
done whilst connected to the net.

Computer time can also be synchronised, imperative for viewing satellites.


"Allison Kirkpatrick" wrote in message
om...
How do you go about planning for a "session" of satellite observing? I
understand how to come up with pass predictions for any satellite
using software, online services like Heavens Above, etc., but I do not
know how to "choose" satellites without it being laborious. For
example, I just spent an hour or so typing in "Lacrosse 2", "Lacrosse
3", etc. at the Heavens Above web site to see what interesting
satellites might be visible the next night or two from my location,
but I found very few passes. This seems like a very inefficient way to
go about planning, so what do you guys do? Do you pick out the
interesting satellites, calculate when they will make favorable passes
many days in advance, and then mark those on a calendar of some sort?
Is there some software that you can use to do this? Thanks very much
for your help.











  #14  
Old January 6th 04, 09:37 AM
William R. Thompson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question for veteran satellite observers..

Ted Molczan wrote:

(with lots of fascinating information)

I am fairly certain that the only country to have launched a stealth
satellite was the U.S.A.


So far.

Imagine that the North Koreans take a small nuclear device, wrap it
in radar-absorbent material and put it in orbit, the purpose being
to detonate it several hundred miles above Washington, DC (no
crater, no hibakusha, no fallout, no mushroom cloud . . . but the
EMP destroys most of the electronics along the eastern seaboard).
In that scenario, you might want a corps of experienced visual observers
to help track the satellite, in case it turns out that the RAM works
well enough to keep radar from spotting the staellite.

Making the elsats public has an obvious deterrent effect. It proves
that the Defense Department knows which objects are in orbit. Even
Kim il-Dork or Khadaffi Duck might think twice about doing something
clever with a satellite if they knew its presence couldn't be kept
secret.

Thanks for the history of the Misty satellite.

--Bill Thompson
  #15  
Old January 6th 04, 09:37 AM
William R. Thompson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question for veteran satellite observers..

Ted Molczan wrote:

(with lots of fascinating information)

I am fairly certain that the only country to have launched a stealth
satellite was the U.S.A.


So far.

Imagine that the North Koreans take a small nuclear device, wrap it
in radar-absorbent material and put it in orbit, the purpose being
to detonate it several hundred miles above Washington, DC (no
crater, no hibakusha, no fallout, no mushroom cloud . . . but the
EMP destroys most of the electronics along the eastern seaboard).
In that scenario, you might want a corps of experienced visual observers
to help track the satellite, in case it turns out that the RAM works
well enough to keep radar from spotting the staellite.

Making the elsats public has an obvious deterrent effect. It proves
that the Defense Department knows which objects are in orbit. Even
Kim il-Dork or Khadaffi Duck might think twice about doing something
clever with a satellite if they knew its presence couldn't be kept
secret.

Thanks for the history of the Misty satellite.

--Bill Thompson
 




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