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A different optical telescope



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 13th 06, 10:33 PM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


"odin" wrote in message
...
The only reason I can see for going to a larger diameter is to look at
longer wavelength information. Google on "Arecibo radio telescope".


The amount of light an objective mirror gathers (aka "light gathering
power")
http://www.twcac.org/Tutorials/lightgathering_power.htm
is roughly proportional to its area. More LGP means brighter images and/or
shorter photographic exposures - equivalent to a 'fast' camera lens.


Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA


  #12  
Old January 13th 06, 10:36 PM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


"Lorem Ipsum" wrote in message
...

"stone" wrote in message
...
I suggest making a reflector optical telescope with a diameter of 100

yards
or more. Instead of using a highly polished mirror, which is very
expensive
even for a small one, I suggest using the reflective surface of good
quality
aluminum foil


Thousands of PhDs in optical engineering and this bloke comes out of the
blue with something.... ah...


I'm guessing the OP has never *heard* of optical engineering. This seems
like the kind of question a clever middle-school student (or an imaginative
high school student) with a limited exposure (pun) to basic physics or
optics might ask.


Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA


  #13  
Old January 14th 06, 06:37 AM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


stone wrote in message ...
I suggest making a reflector optical telescope with a diameter of 100 yards
or more. Instead of using a highly polished mirror, which is very expensive
even for a small one, I suggest using the reflective surface of good

quality
aluminum foil for the concave mirror to gather very much light and focus it
to the focal point of the telescope. The aluminum foil can be glued to the
surface of a plastic concave surface, that is manufactured in sections, and
assembled with a hundred yard or more diameter. Aluminum supports can be
used to hold this huge concave plastic structure.
I know that the reflectivity of aluminum foil is not as good as a polished
mirror, however I think that you could get a higher magnification image
(that is clear enough) because of the much larger diameter of the

reflector,
which will gather much more light. A computer program could be designed to
clean up the image, to make it clearer, if that seems to be necessary.
Since the most expensive part of a reflector optical telescope is the
polished mirror, this use of aluminum foil could allow for a much more
powerful optical telescope with much less expence.
The mechanics of moving this large reflector telescope and housing it are
engineering problems that could be worked out.


The way I see it, the main thing to think about is cost. They probably will
never grind a mirror big enough for the Owl telescope [Proposed by the OSO -
100 meters in diameter and at least 10 years away if it is ever built ]. And
the weight of it would be tremendous.
Experiment with the aluminum foil and plastic and glue. Find out what works
and what don't. Build a smaller version first to see if it is worth doing.
A mirror is basically a polished silver surface behind glass. Maybe a clear
varnish could be put on top of the aluminum foil instead of glass. This
would help hold it smooth.
Note: The aluminum frame holding the large plastic dish could be adjustable
at varying points to change the shape of it slightly to adjust it to varying
temperatures. Also minor imperfections might not be a problem because they
are such a small percentage of the total area of the concave surface. (An
imperfection that might make a keck telescope useless, might not have any
appreciable effect on the image from a mirror 100 yards or more in diameter
because the imperfection is such a small percentage of the total mirror
surface area.)
I suggested using a higher quality aluminum foil which does reflect better
than what is available to the public. Possibly could be achieved by alowing
the molten aluminum to cool off differently at the factory.



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  #14  
Old January 14th 06, 08:59 AM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope

Hay Stone, you missed it totaly, the OWL telescope will NOT, I repeat NOT
have ONE mirror. Much like the other big scopes that have been built in the
last few years, their mirror is made up of MULTI-Mirrors, with each mirror
having a push/pull device behind it and a computer running all of them so
that any changes in the air around them is transfered to the mirrors and the
image is kept sharp and if the money is rasied, they will build it and it
would be one awesome scope. Oh ya, the next grand space telescope which is
being worked on will have multi-mirrors that will make up the main mirror.

In a nut shell, you tin foil mirror would be only good for setting fires,
not for viewing stars.

Take a look at the group of 24inch scopes up on Mt.Wilsome above L.A.Calif.
they are all tied together and combined, they have the seeing of a 300 inch
mirror, yet they are up to 1/4 mile apart.


--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
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In Garden Online Gift Shop
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"stone" wrote in message
...

The way I see it, the main thing to think about is cost. They probably
will
never grind a mirror big enough for the Owl telescope [Proposed by the
OSO -
100 meters in diameter and at least 10 years away if it is ever built ].
And
the weight of it would be tremendous.



  #15  
Old January 18th 06, 06:02 AM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


Starlord wrote in message ...
Hay Stone, you missed it totaly, the OWL telescope will NOT, I repeat NOT
have ONE mirror. Much like the other big scopes that have been built in the
last few years, their mirror is made up of MULTI-Mirrors, with each mirror
having a push/pull device behind it and a computer running all of them so
that any changes in the air around them is transfered to the mirrors and

the
image is kept sharp and if the money is rasied, they will build it and it
would be one awesome scope. Oh ya, the next grand space telescope which is
being worked on will have multi-mirrors that will make up the main mirror.

In a nut shell, you tin foil mirror would be only good for setting fires,
not for viewing stars.


Any multi mirror rig is going to have serious distortion, even if you use
computers to try to compensate. A one big mirror with higher quality
aluminum foil could even have less overall distortion just because it is one
mirror. Thousands of little mirrors will have distortion where one mirror
starts and another stops.
I am suggesting:
Very smooth plastic, like on a football helmet, shaped into a big concave
dish, 100 yards in diameter, supported by adjustable aluminum supports [with
turnable sleeves for adjusting the length of the aluminum pipes], with a
fine mist of glue holding a very smooth and highly polished aluminum foil
onto the plastic to form one big concave mirror.
Even though it is only aluminum foil, it could have less distortion than
thousands of disconnected mirrors. All around each small individual mirror
will be distortion in the spaces between mirrors. For thousands of small
mirrors that adds up to alot of distortion.



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  #16  
Old January 18th 06, 04:43 PM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope

Once more you have shown that you know NOTHING, because ALL of the big
scopes being built or already in operation have multi-mirrors and the images
they are getting are even sharper than the Hunnle Space Telescope.
You should really study the systems they now use ( have been for 10 years at
lest ) that makes any changes in the air null and void and the computer
system is running so fast that it samples the foucs and adjusts it 200 times
a second.
From the Multi-mirror scope on Kitt Peak to the Monstors that just went
online ( 3 of them ) down in Chile on that high desert area, they ALL, I
repeat ALL have the Multi-mirrors that make up ONE big mirror. And as stated
before, the James Webb Space Telescope which will operate in the infered
area of light will also have multi-mirrors, they will be folded up and once
it has reached it's L1 orbit station it'll unfold them and have a full
mirror bigger than even the HST.

Why don't you build your scope out of CD's, it would be just as useless as
your tin foil one.

Oh ya, BTW, the OWL telescope will not only have a truly monster of a
multi-part main mirror, but the secondary mirror will be made up of
multi-mirrors too.

Everytime you post, you show that you know nothing about the new breed of
scopes, you should really check out some of the back issures of Sky &
Telescope that show these systems and scopes.



--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords




"stone" wrote in message
...

Starlord wrote in message ...
Hay Stone, you missed it totaly, the OWL telescope will NOT, I repeat NOT
have ONE mirror. Much like the other big scopes that have been built in
the
last few years, their mirror is made up of MULTI-Mirrors, with each mirror
having a push/pull device behind it and a computer running all of them so
that any changes in the air around them is transfered to the mirrors and

the
image is kept sharp and if the money is rasied, they will build it and it
would be one awesome scope. Oh ya, the next grand space telescope which is
being worked on will have multi-mirrors that will make up the main mirror.

In a nut shell, you tin foil mirror would be only good for setting fires,
not for viewing stars.


Any multi mirror rig is going to have serious distortion, even if you use
computers to try to compensate. A one big mirror with higher quality
aluminum foil could even have less overall distortion just because it is
one
mirror. Thousands of little mirrors will have distortion where one mirror
starts and another stops.
I am suggesting:
Very smooth plastic, like on a football helmet, shaped into a big concave
dish, 100 yards in diameter, supported by adjustable aluminum supports
[with
turnable sleeves for adjusting the length of the aluminum pipes], with a
fine mist of glue holding a very smooth and highly polished aluminum foil
onto the plastic to form one big concave mirror.
Even though it is only aluminum foil, it could have less distortion than
thousands of disconnected mirrors. All around each small individual mirror
will be distortion in the spaces between mirrors. For thousands of small
mirrors that adds up to alot of distortion.



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  #17  
Old January 20th 06, 04:49 AM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


stone wrote:

snip repost

Any multi mirror rig is going to have serious distortion, even if you use
computers to try to compensate. A one big mirror with higher quality
aluminum foil could even have less overall distortion just because it is one
mirror. Thousands of little mirrors will have distortion where one mirror
starts and another stops.
I am suggesting:
Very smooth plastic, like on a football helmet, shaped into a big concave
dish, 100 yards in diameter, supported by adjustable aluminum supports [with
turnable sleeves for adjusting the length of the aluminum pipes], with a
fine mist of glue holding a very smooth and highly polished aluminum foil
onto the plastic to form one big concave mirror.
Even though it is only aluminum foil, it could have less distortion than
thousands of disconnected mirrors. All around each small individual mirror
will be distortion in the spaces between mirrors. For thousands of small
mirrors that adds up to alot of distortion.


Stone, you are repeating yourself and ignoring the fine information
your original post has garnered in response.

You evidently do not have sufficient understanding of the problems or
the engineering involved to drive this idea home.

It is time for you to stop spewing and start researching the current
state of the art.

The art of telescope making is hundreds of years old, but you sound
like your understanding of it is only as deep as a Time magazine
article. Since before Galileo people much smarter than you or I have
been refining this art and recording their accumulated knowledge. Let
them teach you something.

The foil is better used for headgear:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

  #18  
Old January 20th 06, 09:55 PM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


"tadchem" wrote in message
ups.com...

The foil is better used for headgear:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/


Watch out, there is evidence that promoting use of foil headgear is a
government plot! Do you work for the CIA? or NSA?? with a .mil address i
would watch out about making recommendations like this, it could blow your
cover!
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/


  #19  
Old January 21st 06, 12:43 AM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


"Dave" wrote in message
...
| Watch out, there is evidence that promoting use of foil headgear is a
| government plot! Do you work for the CIA? or NSA?? with a .mil address
i
| would watch out about making recommendations like this, it could blow your
| cover!
| http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

Shhh,
don't tell anyone I told you this,
but the foil hats actually increase the antenna needed for aliens to read
the foil-head's brainwaves.
lol


  #20  
Old January 21st 06, 02:58 PM posted to alt.astronomy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.sci.physics,alt.astronomy.solar
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Default A different optical telescope


"Dave" wrote in message
...

"tadchem" wrote in message
ups.com...

The foil is better used for headgear:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/


Watch out, there is evidence that promoting use of foil headgear is a
government plot!


Most who sport foil headgear are trying to *defend* themselves from
government plots.

Do you work for the CIA? or NSA??


The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) is responsible for providing our military
with equipment, including Personal Protective Equipment (PPE).

with a .mil address i
would watch out about making recommendations like this, it could blow your
cover!


In the words of Snidely Whiplash, "Curses! Foiled again!"


Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA




 




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