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Serious question about spending money
If you had 10 grand to spend on a community/educational astronomical
facility (try sying that withyour mouth full) what would you spend it on? Skies are potentially reasonably dark, there is nothing else in either the community or educational area and there is a demonstrable enthusiasm for astronomy. The money would have to be spent within the next 12 months but additional funds (say 1g) could be raised and the revenue to run, support and improve the facility in future years can be found. Currently avalable level of expertise is low to medium amateur (but can tap into to real expertise on occasion). Help.... Any and all ideas, suggestions welcome - and thanks in advance. ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#2
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Serious question about spending money
Hi Martin,
Sounds like you are in on something exciting! I had a couple of thoughts: (1) Who is the targeted population? ie, little kids, high schoolers, general public at public nights? Will it be show and tell like a public night, or will it be for students to be able to use for research projects for grade school, high school or college? (2) Are sky conditions best for a big dob or a smaller scope intended for planetary/lunar work? You mentioned "reasonably dark" but how stable is the air? (3) Does the 10k have to cover the building as well as the scope? Is the land already provided? (4) Do you have local club(s) that can provide skilled labor for a large mount or dome/roll-off design? Or will that have to be hired with the 10k? (5) If the land is already in hand, is it easily accessible to the public, with sufficient parking? (again, does the 10k go completely to scope or does it need to buy other stuff?) Sounds exciting! Clear Skies Chuck Taylor Do you observe the moon? Try the Lunar Observing Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/ "Martin Frey" wrote in message news If you had 10 grand to spend on a community/educational astronomical facility (try sying that withyour mouth full) what would you spend it on? Skies are potentially reasonably dark, there is nothing else in either the community or educational area and there is a demonstrable enthusiasm for astronomy. The money would have to be spent within the next 12 months but additional funds (say 1g) could be raised and the revenue to run, support and improve the facility in future years can be found. Currently avalable level of expertise is low to medium amateur (but can tap into to real expertise on occasion). Help.... Any and all ideas, suggestions welcome - and thanks in advance. ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#3
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Serious question about spending money
Hi Martin,
Sounds like you are in on something exciting! I had a couple of thoughts: (1) Who is the targeted population? ie, little kids, high schoolers, general public at public nights? Will it be show and tell like a public night, or will it be for students to be able to use for research projects for grade school, high school or college? (2) Are sky conditions best for a big dob or a smaller scope intended for planetary/lunar work? You mentioned "reasonably dark" but how stable is the air? (3) Does the 10k have to cover the building as well as the scope? Is the land already provided? (4) Do you have local club(s) that can provide skilled labor for a large mount or dome/roll-off design? Or will that have to be hired with the 10k? (5) If the land is already in hand, is it easily accessible to the public, with sufficient parking? (again, does the 10k go completely to scope or does it need to buy other stuff?) Sounds exciting! Clear Skies Chuck Taylor Do you observe the moon? Try the Lunar Observing Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/ "Martin Frey" wrote in message news If you had 10 grand to spend on a community/educational astronomical facility (try sying that withyour mouth full) what would you spend it on? Skies are potentially reasonably dark, there is nothing else in either the community or educational area and there is a demonstrable enthusiasm for astronomy. The money would have to be spent within the next 12 months but additional funds (say 1g) could be raised and the revenue to run, support and improve the facility in future years can be found. Currently avalable level of expertise is low to medium amateur (but can tap into to real expertise on occasion). Help.... Any and all ideas, suggestions welcome - and thanks in advance. ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#4
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Serious question about spending money
"Chuck Taylor" wrote:
Chuck - many thanks: Sounds like you are in on something exciting! I had a couple of thoughts: It will be an exciting challenge and I have to get some kind of plan together fairly soon after Christmas. (1) Who is the targeted population? ie, little kids, high schoolers, general public at public nights? Will it be show and tell like a public night, or will it be for students to be able to use for research projects for grade school, high school or college? The main targets are the school but its huge (by English standards) 2000+ students 11-18. The 16+s should be able to do serious work as astrophysics is on the curriculum. (2) Are sky conditions best for a big dob or a smaller scope intended for planetary/lunar work? You mentioned "reasonably dark" but how stable is the air? The seeing is variable but generally better than average - dew can be a problem. Lightpollution is currently locally very poor - the school is very badly lit but improving rapidly. Otherwise there is an orange glow from 10 miles away - a town of 50,000 and the local community - all houses more than 800 yards away and the closes with their backs to us - not too bad as security lights tend to be on the front. I put up a proposal 2 years ago - that got rather lost in the turmoil of a busy school - for a big dob. But the more I think about ladders in the dark the more I veer away from it. The target audiences are both 11-18 and 50 plus, judging by my astro society membership, neither mixes well with ladders. (3) Does the 10k have to cover the building as well as the scope? Is the land already provided? Land is provided as is access to toilets, car-parking, and power - no cost, except perhaps the last 20 yards of power supply.. (4) Do you have local club(s) that can provide skilled labor for a large mount or dome/roll-off design? Or will that have to be hired with the 10k? I'm hopeful that labour costs will be minimal and that, if an observatory is part of the scheme it might have a small astronomy classroom/study area attached. A friend has just completed a very practical and good looking dome - a mini Mauna Kea, 6 foot diameter, his Mark 3 observatory, so we have access to some expertise. (5) If the land is already in hand, is it easily accessible to the public, with sufficient parking? (again, does the 10k go completely to scope or does it need to buy other stuff?) see 3 above. The school will, I suspect, want a dome of some kind - these are prestige items in competitive times for public education. This rather forces the issue between lots of cheapo scopes or one big one. When I costed up a dream scheme yesterday it came to 22-25 k pounds. My dreams usually cost more than 10 times budget, so I'm quite heartened by this. Sounds exciting! I surely am. But some many radically different ways to go makes it tricky and I need to get something like a proposal in soon after Christmas. At the moment I always return to a big SCT in a dome with a refractor piggy backed on it for live video feed to PCs to keep those waiting for eyepiece time occupied. But I'm happy to be shot down on this. PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#5
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Serious question about spending money
"Chuck Taylor" wrote:
Chuck - many thanks: Sounds like you are in on something exciting! I had a couple of thoughts: It will be an exciting challenge and I have to get some kind of plan together fairly soon after Christmas. (1) Who is the targeted population? ie, little kids, high schoolers, general public at public nights? Will it be show and tell like a public night, or will it be for students to be able to use for research projects for grade school, high school or college? The main targets are the school but its huge (by English standards) 2000+ students 11-18. The 16+s should be able to do serious work as astrophysics is on the curriculum. (2) Are sky conditions best for a big dob or a smaller scope intended for planetary/lunar work? You mentioned "reasonably dark" but how stable is the air? The seeing is variable but generally better than average - dew can be a problem. Lightpollution is currently locally very poor - the school is very badly lit but improving rapidly. Otherwise there is an orange glow from 10 miles away - a town of 50,000 and the local community - all houses more than 800 yards away and the closes with their backs to us - not too bad as security lights tend to be on the front. I put up a proposal 2 years ago - that got rather lost in the turmoil of a busy school - for a big dob. But the more I think about ladders in the dark the more I veer away from it. The target audiences are both 11-18 and 50 plus, judging by my astro society membership, neither mixes well with ladders. (3) Does the 10k have to cover the building as well as the scope? Is the land already provided? Land is provided as is access to toilets, car-parking, and power - no cost, except perhaps the last 20 yards of power supply.. (4) Do you have local club(s) that can provide skilled labor for a large mount or dome/roll-off design? Or will that have to be hired with the 10k? I'm hopeful that labour costs will be minimal and that, if an observatory is part of the scheme it might have a small astronomy classroom/study area attached. A friend has just completed a very practical and good looking dome - a mini Mauna Kea, 6 foot diameter, his Mark 3 observatory, so we have access to some expertise. (5) If the land is already in hand, is it easily accessible to the public, with sufficient parking? (again, does the 10k go completely to scope or does it need to buy other stuff?) see 3 above. The school will, I suspect, want a dome of some kind - these are prestige items in competitive times for public education. This rather forces the issue between lots of cheapo scopes or one big one. When I costed up a dream scheme yesterday it came to 22-25 k pounds. My dreams usually cost more than 10 times budget, so I'm quite heartened by this. Sounds exciting! I surely am. But some many radically different ways to go makes it tricky and I need to get something like a proposal in soon after Christmas. At the moment I always return to a big SCT in a dome with a refractor piggy backed on it for live video feed to PCs to keep those waiting for eyepiece time occupied. But I'm happy to be shot down on this. PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#6
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Serious question about spending money
"Martin Frey" wrote in message news It will be an exciting challenge and I have to get some kind of plan together fairly soon after Christmas. Yikes, that doesn't give you much time to dream and play with ideas. The main targets are the school but its huge (by English standards) 2000+ students 11-18. The 16+s should be able to do serious work as astrophysics is on the curriculum. Nice to have a school with that curriculum! The seeing is variable but generally better than average - dew can be a problem. Lightpollution is currently locally very poor - the school is very badly lit but improving rapidly. Otherwise there is an orange glow from 10 miles away - a town of 50,000 and the local community - all houses more than 800 yards away and the closes with their backs to us - not too bad as security lights tend to be on the front. So some serious aperture would be nice. I live on the west (US) coast near Puget Sound (Washington) and rarely see a night without dew. Half the time I feel like I'm swimming out there. So part of your budget needs to include dew heaters etc. Have you seen the Dewbuster? It's at http://www.gbronline.com/ronkeating/default.htm along with a review by Rod. It looks like it would be perfect for nights when the scope operator has his or her hands full and needs automatic dew heating. I put up a proposal 2 years ago - that got rather lost in the turmoil of a busy school - for a big dob. But the more I think about ladders in the dark the more I veer away from it. The target audiences are both 11-18 and 50 plus, judging by my astro society membership, neither mixes well with ladders. I see your point! :-( I can also see how others might have been happy to let a proposal get lost when it involved kids, ladders and the dark. Land is provided as is access to toilets, car-parking, and power - no cost, except perhaps the last 20 yards of power supply.. Nice! Will you be able to use a school classroom during a night session? I'm hopeful that labour costs will be minimal and that, if an observatory is part of the scheme it might have a small astronomy classroom/study area attached. A friend has just completed a very practical and good looking dome - a mini Mauna Kea, 6 foot diameter, his Mark 3 observatory, so we have access to some expertise. Your idea of an SCT would go well with a smaller dome. You could build it with a room beneath and add an extension to the room later. Maybe stage one is build the dome. Stage two is add an additional room with a temporary roof and stage three is to put a slide off roof on that section for scopes acquired later? see 3 above. The school will, I suspect, want a dome of some kind - these are prestige items in competitive times for public education. This rather forces the issue between lots of cheapo scopes or one big one. When I costed up a dream scheme yesterday it came to 22-25 k pounds. My dreams usually cost more than 10 times budget, so I'm quite heartened by this. I had to go and covert. I came up with 10k pounds = $17,233 US. That's still a good start. The dome makes sense from the school's viewpoint and it would be a constant advertisement to attract interest. I surely am. But some many radically different ways to go makes it tricky and I need to get something like a proposal in soon after Christmas. At the moment I always return to a big SCT in a dome with a refractor piggy backed on it for live video feed to PCs to keep those waiting for eyepiece time occupied. But I'm happy to be shot down on this. Something like this: http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=228421 ? That might leave you short for the rest of the stuff, but if the clubs could build the dome etc... If you do go after a 16" SCT, Sol Robbins on the Chinese Refractor list spent quite a lot of time setting up two or three of them. I believe it was for a university. He's usually very helpful. From what you've said, the big SCT does look best. It's a shame the solar max is past. Have you thought of a Ha system with video camera? PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) I've been watching the sun a little lately (Baader filter) and dropped in to lurk and pick up some pointers. And as you said, it's a lot warmer during the day :-) Clear Skies Chuck Taylor Do you observe the moon? Try the Lunar Observing Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/ ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#7
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Serious question about spending money
"Martin Frey" wrote in message news It will be an exciting challenge and I have to get some kind of plan together fairly soon after Christmas. Yikes, that doesn't give you much time to dream and play with ideas. The main targets are the school but its huge (by English standards) 2000+ students 11-18. The 16+s should be able to do serious work as astrophysics is on the curriculum. Nice to have a school with that curriculum! The seeing is variable but generally better than average - dew can be a problem. Lightpollution is currently locally very poor - the school is very badly lit but improving rapidly. Otherwise there is an orange glow from 10 miles away - a town of 50,000 and the local community - all houses more than 800 yards away and the closes with their backs to us - not too bad as security lights tend to be on the front. So some serious aperture would be nice. I live on the west (US) coast near Puget Sound (Washington) and rarely see a night without dew. Half the time I feel like I'm swimming out there. So part of your budget needs to include dew heaters etc. Have you seen the Dewbuster? It's at http://www.gbronline.com/ronkeating/default.htm along with a review by Rod. It looks like it would be perfect for nights when the scope operator has his or her hands full and needs automatic dew heating. I put up a proposal 2 years ago - that got rather lost in the turmoil of a busy school - for a big dob. But the more I think about ladders in the dark the more I veer away from it. The target audiences are both 11-18 and 50 plus, judging by my astro society membership, neither mixes well with ladders. I see your point! :-( I can also see how others might have been happy to let a proposal get lost when it involved kids, ladders and the dark. Land is provided as is access to toilets, car-parking, and power - no cost, except perhaps the last 20 yards of power supply.. Nice! Will you be able to use a school classroom during a night session? I'm hopeful that labour costs will be minimal and that, if an observatory is part of the scheme it might have a small astronomy classroom/study area attached. A friend has just completed a very practical and good looking dome - a mini Mauna Kea, 6 foot diameter, his Mark 3 observatory, so we have access to some expertise. Your idea of an SCT would go well with a smaller dome. You could build it with a room beneath and add an extension to the room later. Maybe stage one is build the dome. Stage two is add an additional room with a temporary roof and stage three is to put a slide off roof on that section for scopes acquired later? see 3 above. The school will, I suspect, want a dome of some kind - these are prestige items in competitive times for public education. This rather forces the issue between lots of cheapo scopes or one big one. When I costed up a dream scheme yesterday it came to 22-25 k pounds. My dreams usually cost more than 10 times budget, so I'm quite heartened by this. I had to go and covert. I came up with 10k pounds = $17,233 US. That's still a good start. The dome makes sense from the school's viewpoint and it would be a constant advertisement to attract interest. I surely am. But some many radically different ways to go makes it tricky and I need to get something like a proposal in soon after Christmas. At the moment I always return to a big SCT in a dome with a refractor piggy backed on it for live video feed to PCs to keep those waiting for eyepiece time occupied. But I'm happy to be shot down on this. Something like this: http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=228421 ? That might leave you short for the rest of the stuff, but if the clubs could build the dome etc... If you do go after a 16" SCT, Sol Robbins on the Chinese Refractor list spent quite a lot of time setting up two or three of them. I believe it was for a university. He's usually very helpful. From what you've said, the big SCT does look best. It's a shame the solar max is past. Have you thought of a Ha system with video camera? PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) I've been watching the sun a little lately (Baader filter) and dropped in to lurk and pick up some pointers. And as you said, it's a lot warmer during the day :-) Clear Skies Chuck Taylor Do you observe the moon? Try the Lunar Observing Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/ ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#8
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Serious question about spending money
PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because
the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) BTW, you are going to show these kids that the moon is the best thing up there, aren't you? ;-) Chuck Taylor Do you observe the moon? Try the Lunar Observing Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/ ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#9
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Serious question about spending money
PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because
the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) BTW, you are going to show these kids that the moon is the best thing up there, aren't you? ;-) Chuck Taylor Do you observe the moon? Try the Lunar Observing Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/ ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
#10
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Serious question about spending money
"Chuck Taylor" wrote:
PS what's a lunatic like you doing in a solar group? I'm here because the Sun fits the school day better than the planets (and its warmer...) BTW, you are going to show these kids that the moon is the best thing up there, aren't you? Moon is irresistable - don't think I'll need to show the kids that.... ----------------------------- Martin Frey http://www.hadastro.org.uk N 51 01 52.2 E 0 47 21.1 ----------------------------- |
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