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Black Hole Sound Waves



 
 
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  #13  
Old September 12th 03, 07:59 PM
Bill Sheppard
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Starblade Riven Darksquall sezzz...

No, the black hole cannot effect the
outside world.


Whaaa...? A star collapsed to a BH still holds is planets in exactly the
same orbits as before the collapse. Clearly, it expresses gravity to the
'outside world' exactly as before.

Only the event horizon can. But, if the
event horizon vibrated... it might create such waves.
Most likely though it is the trace of things just as they are entering

through the
event horizon.


This bears on the "speed of gravity" question and the popular belief
that gravity propagates at, and is limited to, the speed of light. If
that were the case, gravity would not be able to reach outside the event
horizon. Clearly that is not the case, proving the 'speed of gravity'
far, far exceeds the speed of light.

BTW, where is Mr. Webster Smogpule? He hasn't ''weighed in" lately.
oc

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  #14  
Old September 12th 03, 07:59 PM
Bill Sheppard
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Posts: n/a
Default

Starblade Riven Darksquall sezzz...

No, the black hole cannot effect the
outside world.


Whaaa...? A star collapsed to a BH still holds is planets in exactly the
same orbits as before the collapse. Clearly, it expresses gravity to the
'outside world' exactly as before.

Only the event horizon can. But, if the
event horizon vibrated... it might create such waves.
Most likely though it is the trace of things just as they are entering

through the
event horizon.


This bears on the "speed of gravity" question and the popular belief
that gravity propagates at, and is limited to, the speed of light. If
that were the case, gravity would not be able to reach outside the event
horizon. Clearly that is not the case, proving the 'speed of gravity'
far, far exceeds the speed of light.

BTW, where is Mr. Webster Smogpule? He hasn't ''weighed in" lately.
oc

Anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net
Change 'at' to@

  #15  
Old September 12th 03, 11:06 PM
Jeff Relf
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Hi Double-A ,
You say :
" Sounds like
the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body .
But then that's not
what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? "


Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper )
appear to us to have no motion at all ;
but apparently the jets shooting out from it
are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound .
  #16  
Old September 12th 03, 11:06 PM
Jeff Relf
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Posts: n/a
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Hi Double-A ,
You say :
" Sounds like
the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body .
But then that's not
what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? "


Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper )
appear to us to have no motion at all ;
but apparently the jets shooting out from it
are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound .
  #17  
Old September 13th 03, 06:05 AM
Double-A
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Default

Jeff Relf wrote in message ...
Hi Double-A ,
You say :
" Sounds like
the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body .
But then that's not
what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? "


Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper )
appear to us to have no motion at all ;
but apparently the jets shooting out from it
are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound .



Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment.

Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark
stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no
event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity.

A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or
ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has
struck it.

This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing
sound waves.

Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent
their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer
they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour
after the crash.

Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of
extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched
vibration, considering the size of the body.

We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only
740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And
through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph!

So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like
body, how fast could sound travel?

Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light?

Double-A
  #18  
Old September 13th 03, 06:05 AM
Double-A
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Posts: n/a
Default

Jeff Relf wrote in message ...
Hi Double-A ,
You say :
" Sounds like
the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body .
But then that's not
what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? "


Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper )
appear to us to have no motion at all ;
but apparently the jets shooting out from it
are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound .



Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment.

Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark
stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no
event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity.

A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or
ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has
struck it.

This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing
sound waves.

Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent
their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer
they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour
after the crash.

Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of
extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched
vibration, considering the size of the body.

We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only
740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And
through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph!

So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like
body, how fast could sound travel?

Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light?

Double-A
  #19  
Old September 13th 03, 06:41 AM
Old Man
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Posts: n/a
Default

Double-A wrote in message
m...
Jeff Relf wrote in message

...
Hi Double-A ,
You say :
" Sounds like
the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body .
But then that's not
what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? "


Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper )
appear to us to have no motion at all ;
but apparently the jets shooting out from it
are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound .



Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment.

Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark
stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no
event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity.

A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or
ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has
struck it.

This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing
sound waves.

Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent
their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer
they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour
after the crash.

Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of
extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched
vibration, considering the size of the body.

We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only
740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And
through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph!

So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like
body, how fast could sound travel?

Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light?

Double-A


The speed of sound in a baryonic gas is

c_s (baryonic) / c (light) = sqrt( kT / mc^2 )

The speed of sound in a gas of photons (or of relativistic particles)

c_s (photonic) / c (light) = 1 / sqrt( 3 ) ~ 0.58

"Introduction to Cosmology" B. Ryden ISBN 0-8053-8912-1

[Old Man]







  #20  
Old September 13th 03, 06:41 AM
Old Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Double-A wrote in message
m...
Jeff Relf wrote in message

...
Hi Double-A ,
You say :
" Sounds like
the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body .
But then that's not
what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? "


Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper )
appear to us to have no motion at all ;
but apparently the jets shooting out from it
are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound .



Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment.

Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark
stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no
event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity.

A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or
ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has
struck it.

This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing
sound waves.

Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent
their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer
they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour
after the crash.

Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of
extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched
vibration, considering the size of the body.

We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only
740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And
through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph!

So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like
body, how fast could sound travel?

Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light?

Double-A


The speed of sound in a baryonic gas is

c_s (baryonic) / c (light) = sqrt( kT / mc^2 )

The speed of sound in a gas of photons (or of relativistic particles)

c_s (photonic) / c (light) = 1 / sqrt( 3 ) ~ 0.58

"Introduction to Cosmology" B. Ryden ISBN 0-8053-8912-1

[Old Man]







 




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