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(Double-A) wrote in message . com...
nightbat wrote in message ... nightbat wrote Sound waves in space, hmmmm, thunder in the dark black cosmos? Better not tell Enterprize or Archie, they might think they're trumpets in the heavens or in parallel universes coming through. Archie will claim his total universe atom is vibrating and Enterprize will weave it into some more of his multiverse, star wars, or Peter Pan, unknown never never land sounds, the final proof of second heaven. the nightbat NASA Science News wrote: NASA Science News for September 9, 2003 Astronomers using NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory have detected, for the first time, sound waves rumbling away from a supermassive black hole. The "note," about 57 octaves lower than middle-C, is the deepest ever detected from an object in our Universe. FULL STORY at http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...htm?list100231 Home page: http://science.nasa.gov Sounds like the "ringing" one could expect of a rigid dense body. But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like, is it? Double-A No, the black hole cannot effect the outside world. Only the event horizon can. But, if the event horizon vibrated... it might create such waves. Most likely though it is the trace of things just as they are entering through the event horizon. (...Starblade Riven Darksquall...) |
#13
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Starblade Riven Darksquall sezzz...
No, the black hole cannot effect the outside world. Whaaa...? A star collapsed to a BH still holds is planets in exactly the same orbits as before the collapse. Clearly, it expresses gravity to the 'outside world' exactly as before. Only the event horizon can. But, if the event horizon vibrated... it might create such waves. Most likely though it is the trace of things just as they are entering through the event horizon. This bears on the "speed of gravity" question and the popular belief that gravity propagates at, and is limited to, the speed of light. If that were the case, gravity would not be able to reach outside the event horizon. Clearly that is not the case, proving the 'speed of gravity' far, far exceeds the speed of light. BTW, where is Mr. Webster Smogpule? He hasn't ''weighed in" lately. oc Anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ |
#14
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Starblade Riven Darksquall sezzz...
No, the black hole cannot effect the outside world. Whaaa...? A star collapsed to a BH still holds is planets in exactly the same orbits as before the collapse. Clearly, it expresses gravity to the 'outside world' exactly as before. Only the event horizon can. But, if the event horizon vibrated... it might create such waves. Most likely though it is the trace of things just as they are entering through the event horizon. This bears on the "speed of gravity" question and the popular belief that gravity propagates at, and is limited to, the speed of light. If that were the case, gravity would not be able to reach outside the event horizon. Clearly that is not the case, proving the 'speed of gravity' far, far exceeds the speed of light. BTW, where is Mr. Webster Smogpule? He hasn't ''weighed in" lately. oc Anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ |
#15
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Hi Double-A ,
You say : " Sounds like the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body . But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? " Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper ) appear to us to have no motion at all ; but apparently the jets shooting out from it are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound . |
#16
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Hi Double-A ,
You say : " Sounds like the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body . But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? " Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper ) appear to us to have no motion at all ; but apparently the jets shooting out from it are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound . |
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Jeff Relf wrote in message ...
Hi Double-A , You say : " Sounds like the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body . But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? " Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper ) appear to us to have no motion at all ; but apparently the jets shooting out from it are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound . Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment. Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity. A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has struck it. This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing sound waves. Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour after the crash. Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched vibration, considering the size of the body. We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only 740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph! So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like body, how fast could sound travel? Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light? Double-A |
#18
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Jeff Relf wrote in message ...
Hi Double-A , You say : " Sounds like the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body . But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? " Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper ) appear to us to have no motion at all ; but apparently the jets shooting out from it are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound . Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment. Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity. A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has struck it. This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing sound waves. Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour after the crash. Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched vibration, considering the size of the body. We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only 740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph! So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like body, how fast could sound travel? Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light? Double-A |
#19
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Double-A wrote in message
m... Jeff Relf wrote in message ... Hi Double-A , You say : " Sounds like the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body . But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? " Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper ) appear to us to have no motion at all ; but apparently the jets shooting out from it are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound . Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment. Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity. A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has struck it. This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing sound waves. Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour after the crash. Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched vibration, considering the size of the body. We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only 740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph! So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like body, how fast could sound travel? Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light? Double-A The speed of sound in a baryonic gas is c_s (baryonic) / c (light) = sqrt( kT / mc^2 ) The speed of sound in a gas of photons (or of relativistic particles) c_s (photonic) / c (light) = 1 / sqrt( 3 ) ~ 0.58 "Introduction to Cosmology" B. Ryden ISBN 0-8053-8912-1 [Old Man] |
#20
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Double-A wrote in message
m... Jeff Relf wrote in message ... Hi Double-A , You say : " Sounds like the ' ringing ' one could expect of a rigid dense body . But then that's not what black holes are supposed to be like , is it ? " Frozen stars proper ( i.e. Black holes proper ) appear to us to have no motion at all ; but apparently the jets shooting out from it are sufficiently dense to transmit the sound . Let's suspend our disbelief just for a moment. Suppose that what we assume are black holes are really more like quark stars, bodies that are extremely dense and rigid. Assume that no event horizon has formed, and there is no singularity. A body of such density and extension should be prone to vibrating, or ringing for long periods of time, especially after a large object has struck it. This could explain the observed phenomenon of "black holes" producing sound waves. Even our own Moon was said to "Ring like a Bell" when Apollo 13 sent their Saturn V booster crashing into the lunar surface. A seismometer they had left on the surface detected continued "ringing" for an hour after the crash. Sound vibrations would travel very quickly through an object of extreme density, which might result in a surprisingly high-pitched vibration, considering the size of the body. We think of sound as slow because we experience it travelling at only 740 mph through air. But through water it goes at 3,315 mph. And through steel, it travels at 13,322 mph! So what is the limit? Through a highly compressed quark star like body, how fast could sound travel? Under the right circumstances, could sound travel faster than light? Double-A The speed of sound in a baryonic gas is c_s (baryonic) / c (light) = sqrt( kT / mc^2 ) The speed of sound in a gas of photons (or of relativistic particles) c_s (photonic) / c (light) = 1 / sqrt( 3 ) ~ 0.58 "Introduction to Cosmology" B. Ryden ISBN 0-8053-8912-1 [Old Man] |
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