A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Others » Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Query about Mars



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 22nd 03, 07:52 PM
Andrew McKay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts?

WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly
carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants
can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human
habitation.

So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be
to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the
atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? Obviously the
vegetation would also need its own life support systems such as
insects and so on, so it would generally take rather more than a
packet of seeds from the garden centre.

I appreciate it's not an overnight change, and it could in fact be
hundreds of years (or longer) before the climate was friendly enough
to support human life.

The question is purely rhetorical as I'm interested to know if this
would be a feasible option.

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp
  #2  
Old June 22nd 03, 10:09 PM
Sally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

The CO2 atmosphere at the surface of Mars has a pressure of around one
hundredth of sea level pressure here on earth. Actually, the CO2 partial
pressure on Mars might be similar to that on earth, but the big problem is
that liquid water will not hang around for long at this atmospheric
pressure, it will be either solid or gaseous depending on temperature. The
water in any (earth like) higher plant cell on Mars will either freeze and
disrupt the cell contents or it will boil and burst the cell walls. Maybe at
some depth below the surface things might be more conducive to plant growth
if an alternative to solar input could be found for an energy source. Or
maybe plants could one day be grown under pressurised domes.

However, my scepticism to most Terraforming ideas arises from the fact that
we have a perfectly good Earthlike ecosystem here on Earth, and we can't
even maintain that. So what chance do we have of constructing one from
nothing?

Sally

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts?

WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly
carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants
can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human
habitation.

So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be
to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the
atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? Obviously the
vegetation would also need its own life support systems such as
insects and so on, so it would generally take rather more than a
packet of seeds from the garden centre.

I appreciate it's not an overnight change, and it could in fact be
hundreds of years (or longer) before the climate was friendly enough
to support human life.

The question is purely rhetorical as I'm interested to know if this
would be a feasible option.

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp



  #3  
Old June 22nd 03, 10:33 PM
Andrew McKay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:09:13 +0100, "Sally"
wrote:

However, my scepticism to most Terraforming ideas arises from the fact that
we have a perfectly good Earthlike ecosystem here on Earth, and we can't
even maintain that. So what chance do we have of constructing one from
nothing?


With that I have to agree.

Thanks for your comments. WRT to the air pressure situation, I
understand. Presumably it would be feasible to build some sort of
environment which could support life though?

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp
  #4  
Old June 23rd 03, 12:09 PM
Sally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

Yes, given sufficient willpower and resources I believe that it would be
possible. There are several projects underway around the world attempting to
maintain isolated mini-ecosystems. The Eden project was (I think) one of the
first. It even had a small crew of people in the dome. Some valuable lessons
were learned before things started to go wrong. I think that it had to be
abandoned due to excessive CO2 buildup. The crew were also struggling to
produce enough food from the system and lost a lot of weight.

Sally

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your comments. WRT to the air pressure situation, I
understand. Presumably it would be feasible to build some sort of
environment which could support life though?



  #5  
Old June 23rd 03, 01:17 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

Hi Sally that is the reason why they have to dig down for those red
Martian clams. Sponges,and clams were the first major structures in the
early days of life,They strain bacteria out of water(no teeth) Moby
told me this,and added that like man came from the ape octopus came from
the clam. Bert

  #6  
Old June 24th 03, 01:26 AM
Sally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

Clams are molluscs, I think. Same group as Moby and garden slugs and snails.
Last octopus I saw was in the wild, peeping at me from under a rock on the
sea bed.

I wonder about the chances of some local area on Mars having enough
pressure/temperature/energy input to support some sort of life? I'm thinking
of some sub surface location where a mini-ecosystem could survive, like the
communities around black smokers here on earth. I believe that specialised
clams have been found around those black smokers.

Did you know that octopus eyes are similar to ours? Except their retina is
the other way around with the optic nerves at the back. This means they
don't have a built-in blind spot like us poor vertebrates.

Sally

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
Hi Sally that is the reason why they have to dig down for those red
Martian clams. Sponges,and clams were the first major structures in the
early days of life,They strain bacteria out of water(no teeth) Moby
told me this,and added that like man came from the ape octopus came from
the clam. Bert



  #7  
Old June 24th 03, 03:18 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

Hi Andrew My feeling is Mars has to many things that are not beneficial
for the small one cell structures to get started. These are the
reasons. No magnetic field. No atmosphere to shield it from harmful
space radiation.Bad temperature changes. No hard evidence of of
water,and I could go on and on. Andrew if these probes that land on
Mars don't find water,that to me means it will be a very long time
before man steps on Mars. These probes might tell us its very much like
the moon,and the moon is only three days away,and can serve the same
purpose. Bert

  #8  
Old June 24th 03, 08:52 PM
David Knisely
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

Bert posted:

No magnetic field.


Now now, Bert, we have been through this before. Although Mars does not
have a well-developed global bipolar field like that of the Earth, it
*does* have a magnetic field. Please go to the following URL and read
the article:

http://mgs-mager.gsfc.nasa.gov/publi...connerney.html

No atmosphere to shield it from harmful space radiation.


Bert, you simply *have* to start watching what you say! Mars *does*
have an atmosphere. It provides *some* protection from radiation from
space, although its protecting ability is somewhat limited compared to
that of the Earth.


--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club:
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************
  #9  
Old June 24th 03, 10:51 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

David you use "some" protection I see that as not a hell of a lot. Even
find dust particles that would burn up in earth's atmosphere could
easily come down and make it to the surface of Mars(yes) Mars has only
1% of the earth's atmosphere. Its surface is dust. the moon's surface is
dust. David because you challenge me on water on Mars I have now gone
from clams 50 feet down to worms. David I am so glad that by
Christmas the probes will all be landing,and I hope I'm wrong and your
right. Your thinking is why the probes vare on there way. Your
thinking is mush more intriguing than dust storms creating erosion. When
I was young and there were Mars pictures of those straight cress crossed
lines on Mars,and they were canals of running water I went along with
that theory.I preached it an ended up with egg on my face. David we
have had other lander pictures,and they show a dry surface. I still have
egg on my face, Mars is a dry planet. That is my gut feeling as of now
Bert

  #10  
Old June 25th 03, 06:14 AM
David Knisely
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Query about Mars

Bert posted:

David you use "some" protection I see that as not a hell of a lot. Even
find dust particles that would burn up in earth's atmosphere could
easily come down and make it to the surface of Mars(yes)


No. Most micrometoroids and smaller meteoroids do *not* make it to the
surface of Mars. The atmosphere is thick enough to stop that. Larger
objects can make it down, but the lack of a continuuum of smaller impact
craters clearly shows the weak but noticable shielding effect that the
thin Martian atmosphere has.

Mars has only 1% of the earth's atmosphere.


Again, you have to clarify what you have said. The average atmospheric
*pressure* on Mars is about 7 millibars, which is about 0.69 percent of
the pressure on the Earth at sea level. The approximate mass of the
Martian atmosphere is about 4.1 x 10^16 kg. The mass of the Earth's
atmosphere is about 5.6 x 10^18 kg, so the Martian atmosphere is only
0.73 percent of the mass of the Earth's atmosphere. This is *less* than
one percent of the Earth's atmosphere.

Its surface is dust.


Its surface has *some* dust on it. There are quite large areas of solid
exposed bedrock as well, along with a huge population of small rocks and
larger nearly boulder-sized rocks. The surface is very rough and not
covered with the very thick and finely-gardened regolith that is found
on the moon. This clearly shows that the surface is being protected
from continual bombardment by small objects over much of its history,
which is in stark contrast to the surface of the moon

David because you challenge me on water on Mars I have now gone
from clams 50 feet down to worms.


Nope, I challenge you because you can't seem to get very many of the
facts right. You say that Mars has no atmosphere (which is just plain
wrong), and no magnetic field, which is inaccurate.

Your thinking is mush more intriguing than dust storms creating erosion.


Back to the childish insults again I see (sigh).

Mars is a dry planet


Compared to the Earth or Europa, it may be. However, it has a great
deal more water than bodies like Mercury or the moon have, and there are
*facts* to support this. You seem to be ingoring the facts again. Why
is that Bert?
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club:
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Color image of Mars from Mars Express. Robert Clark Amateur Astronomy 8 December 9th 03 09:27 PM
Japan admits its Mars probe is failing JimO Policy 16 December 6th 03 03:23 PM
Space Calendar - September 28, 2003 Ron Baalke History 0 September 28th 03 08:00 AM
Space Calendar - August 28, 2003 Ron Baalke History 0 August 28th 03 05:32 PM
Space Calendar - July 24, 2003 Ron Baalke History 0 July 24th 03 11:26 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.