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Spectral line changes?
[[Mod. note -- This query started out over in our sister newsgroup
sci.physics.research, but was moved here at my request. This article should probably have been crossposted between the newsgroups, but I didn't think of that at the time. Oops... -- jt]] Question: Is the spectral line signal for hydrogen different for hydrogen in hydrogen gas compared with hydrogen in water? Or, if one were observing the spectral line for some distant collection of hydrogen gas and then that gas reacted with some sudden supply of oxygen forming water, would or does the spectral signal change? Thanks, in advance. Ralph Frost |
#3
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Spectral line changes?
Question: Is the spectral line signal for hydrogen different for
hydrogen in hydrogen gas compared with hydrogen in water? In article , Martin Brown writes: I think the answer is yes it will alter the frequencies that the bound hydrogen atoms emit due to the oxygen distorting the previously perfect spherically symmetric distribution of the electron wavefunction for an isolated hydrogen atom. There will also be a bunch of new possible emission frequencies from a polyatomic molecule too. That last is hugely important. Water has a vast number of spectral lines because of the multiple ways the molecule can vibrate and rotate. These lines are mostly at infrared through millimeter wavelengths. If the pressure or water abundance is high, there are so many lines that they blend together in bands. Even at low pressure and abundance, observations with low spectral resolution will see bands, not lines. I suspect the hydrogen can only emit the neutral hydrogen line when it is in the form of isolated neutral atoms of hydrogen. If this means the hyperfine structure line at 21 cm, I don't think water has any such line because there are an even number of electrons. A water ion with an odd number of electrons would have a line coming from the same physics, but the energy level separation and hence the line frequency would surely shift. -- Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls. Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 Cambridge, MA 02138 USA |
#4
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Spectral line changes?
[Moderator's note: Quoted text snipped. -P.H.]
I was having fun trying to come up with a spectrum analyzer that would make a distinction between copper iron and gold. Clearly the motive was financial gains rather than than science. In doing this research it became apparent that the high Q spectrum lines of a gas were very different from solids. The meaning of Q is the degree of well defined spikes in the spectrum VS low Q soft spectrum that changes at a disappointing slow rate. For example the difference between copper and gold from red to blue is just a fluffy soft cure without any sharp identifying spikes to say you hit pay dirt. A gas on the other hand such as O H or N has high Q spikes in the infrared part of the spectrum making identification easy. In short a gas liquid and solid are very different when it comes to their absorption and reflective spectrum. |
#5
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Spectral line changes?
On 30/09/2017 20:32, John Heath wrote:
[Moderator's note: Quoted text snipped. -P.H.] I was having fun trying to come up with a spectrum analyzer that would make a distinction between copper iron and gold. Clearly the motive was financial gains rather than than science. In doing this research it became apparent that the high Q spectrum lines of a gas were very different from solids. The meaning of Q is the degree of well defined spikes in the spectrum VS low Q soft spectrum that changes at a disappointing slow rate. For example the difference between copper and gold from red to blue is just a fluffy soft cure without any sharp identifying spikes to say you hit pay dirt. A gas on the other hand such as O H or N has high Q spikes in the infrared part of the spectrum making identification easy. In short a gas liquid and solid are very different when it comes to their absorption and reflective spectrum. You don't do it at optical wavelengths... There is a simple way to do metals with X-ray Fluorescence spectroscopy which would work fairly well - Bruker hold some key XRF patents: http://alloytester.com/xrf-technology And it is handheld portable (other brands are available). One of the applications is gold purity. The other way to do it would by laser ablation mass spectrometry but they are not so portable. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#6
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Spectral line changes?
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 4:24:54 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/09/2017 20:32, John Heath wrote: [Moderator's note: Quoted text snipped. -P.H.] I was having fun trying to come up with a spectrum analyzer that would make a distinction between copper iron and gold. Clearly the motive was financial gains rather than than science. In doing this research it became apparent that the high Q spectrum lines of a gas were very different from solids. The meaning of Q is the degree of well defined spikes in the spectrum VS low Q soft spectrum that changes at a disappointing slow rate. For example the difference between copper and gold from red to blue is just a fluffy soft cure without any sharp identifying spikes to say you hit pay dirt. A gas on the other hand such as O H or N has high Q spikes in the infrared part of the spectrum making identification easy. In short a gas liquid and solid are very different when it comes to their absorption and reflective spectrum. You don't do it at optical wavelengths... There is a simple way to do metals with X-ray Fluorescence spectroscopy which would work fairly well - Bruker hold some key XRF patents: http://alloytester.com/xrf-technology And it is handheld portable (other brands are available). One of the applications is gold purity. The other way to do it would by laser ablation mass spectrometry but they are not so portable. -- Regards, Martin Brown I can see from googling gold has a 9.5 K volt peek followed by an 11 K volt peek Problem is you have to be up close with a x-ray source to ping the inner electrons. I wonder if a good lightning strike would be enough for detecting at a distance , Hmmm. |
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