.Nasa and the Rovers ...Has Modern Science Lost it's Soul?

Twenty words or less.


The following pdf could be considered the defining paper so far on the
findings of the Mars Opportunity rover. After some two years on the
surface a detailed overview of the discoveries are presented.
The authors of this paper read like a who's-who of the astrobiology
and geological community.


An astrobiological perspective on Meridiani Planum
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~kaufman/ppt...y/Knoll_05.pdf



In the above extensive paper the sum total of references to the much
discussed and mysterious spheres, or blueberries as Nasa termed
them, follows:


"The remaining 10% is comprised of hematite, most
conspicuously as 2-6 mm spheroidal concretions that
occur throughout the outcrop"


That's it!

Now we must conclude one of two things from this

1) The spheres are uninteresting, they are unimportant.
Less than twenty words is all they deserve.

Or

2) The researchers are dodging the issue to the maximum
extent possible. They mention them, but that's it.

Which is it??? And why???


They chose Meridiani because of the strong and unusual signature
of hematite there. A form of iron deposition which very typically
is associated with bodies of water. Such iron deposition on earth
is also /almost always/ the byproduct of microbial activity.
But those facts we knew in advance.

The hematite is why they went there, where did it come from?

It turns out the hematite is entirely in the mysterious spheres or
blueberries found everywhere at Meridiani. Only traces of hematite
are found in the soil or rocks the spheres are embedded in, it's
......only in the spheres.

Determining the source of the hematite requires understanding
the processes that formed the spheres. They were the
'talk of the town' from day one, the most eagerly awaitied Nasa
new conference of the entire mission was the blueberry bowl
measurements. Figuring the spheres out would merely be...

THE PRIMARY SCIENCE GOAL

Science is about figuring out the unknown
NOT RUNNING FROM IT.

The above paper is not science, it's a bunch of well-titled
file clerks enumerating data. They could at least acknowledge
they haven't a clue how the spheres came to be.

What that paper does ...not... say, is by far the most interesting
result of the rover missions to date.

In twenty words or less.



Jonathan

s


Various wide angle images of the spheres.

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/136...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/180...5L5L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/123...5L6L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/530...5L5L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/183...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/131...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/020...4L5L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/012...5L5L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/569...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/013...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/533...5L5L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/389...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/440...5L5L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/505...5L6L6.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/152...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/162...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/164...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/164...5L7L7.jpg.html
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/170...5L5L6.jpg.html



Various micro images of the spheres

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...nity_m014.html
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...nity_m182.html
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2959M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2957M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2957M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2936M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2907M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2977M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2977M2M1.HTML

jonathan wrote:

Twenty words or less.

No. The TV news described them as self-powered snowblowers, plowing
through Martian dust. Obviously imagination still exists.

Four words to go.

"Jo Schaper" wrote in message
...
jonathan wrote:

Twenty words or less.

No. The TV news described them as self-powered snowblowers, plowing
through Martian dust. Obviously imagination still exists.

Four words to go.

Modern Science hasn't. Modern kooks never had any.

George

On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:38:43 -0500) it happened "jonathan"
wrote in :



Twenty words or less.
OK
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space...lake2color.jpg

The increadible silence both from ESA and NASA to simply
acknowledge 'hey life on an other planet' is likely due
to some fear of public unrest or maybe religious shock.

On the other hand who gives a f*ck as long as the aliens are
not purifying Pu.

hehe

"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message
...
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:38:43 -0500) it happened "jonathan"
wrote in
:



Twenty words or less.
OK
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space...lake2color.jpg

The increadible silence both from ESA and NASA to simply
acknowledge 'hey life on an other planet' is likely due
to some fear of public unrest or maybe religious shock.

On the other hand who gives a f*ck as long as the aliens are
not purifying Pu.

hehe

On the other hand, it is a false color image, and the bluish streak could
be anything (most likely mineralogic in nature, if Meridiani is any
indication - obviously windblown). But then, pothead Johnny thinks that
Martian blueberries are actually Martian sponges. (to hell with 20 words or
less). Perhaps the ESA and NASA are being silent about it because they
know what it is, and aren't as stupid as Hurricane Johnny.

George

"Jo Schaper" wrote in message
...
jonathan wrote:
"Jo Schaper" wrote in message
...


I'm smart enough to go along with Steve Squyres.....


You trust Steve Squyres? Ok!

George posted the recent paper in Nature claiming
an impact was responsible for the spheres.


"Knauth's team proposes that the meteorite generated a "ground-hugging
turbulent flow of rock fragments, salts, sulfides, brines and ice," leaving
deposits that were later weathered by small amounts of water
embedded in the grains."
..

Squyres responds to this theory.

"Squyres said a deeper understanding of the situation came when
Opportunity examined Endurance Crater, where observations
were made of 25 vertical feet of rock outcrops. Those results
were published just a month ago, after the two Nature papers
had been submitted."

"Knauth, McCollom and Hynek "hadn't seen that stuff when they
wrote their papers," Squyres said."

"The nature of the layering and grain sizes deeper inside Endurance Crater
" is absolutely incompatible with a volcanic or impact origin," Squyres
said. It is "completely compatible" with the idea of windblown material,
and the upper meter or so "shows evidence for deposition of water.
The chemistry varies with depth in a way that requires that subsurface
liquid water interacted with the rocks after they were deposited."

"Squyres emphasized that his team has always thought the water was
mostly underground, occasionally creating small surface lakes that
evaporated quickly."

"Bullock called the investigation vital, "whatever the ultimate verdict
proves to be."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200512...onsmaybeallwet



So that would put us back to square one, the blueberries formed
in water appears the best evidence. However.....


"In fact, write Paul Knauth of Arizona State University and colleagues,
the blueberries are just too spherical and of uniform size to be
explained by formation in water."


This is of course assuming abiotic or geological processes.
Since it's widely known that microbes commonly produce
such symmetry.

This argument is within the geological community, and we have a
logical contradiction within this debate when you assume
a non-living explanation. They must have formed in water, but
their structure shows they could not have formed in water.

There is one, and only one, way to resolve this contradiction
within the /geological/ community, the only thing is.... it's ...biology.

Yet another contradiction~


But it gets better. The geologists with the impact theory write.

"The Meridiani region was probably more like volcanic parts of Yellowstone,
Hawaii or Italy than something like the Great Salt Lake, McCollom said.
"We think it was far less favorable for past biological activity than
other scenarios that have been proposed."

Excuse me!

To a microbiologist Yellowstone is like Disneyland.
Have they just not been listening. Yellowstone has been the
speculation for years before and ever since Opportunity landed.

And hydrothermal systems are thought to be the origin of life
on earth. As for the Great Salt Lake, it's ecosystem consists
of some algae, brine shrimp but mostly......

"110 billion flies plus 10 billion pupae are estimated to hover
over 300 miles of beaches (370 million flies per mile of beach)"
http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/homep...inar_lake.html


Now, I know I tend to be a bit melodramatic at times.
But this debate is about life elsewhere. It's the first time
this kind of debate has taken place over .../boatloads of evidence/
not just metaphysical ying-yang. Some might call it
......the debate of all time.


Speculation is fun, but just wastes bandwidth.


What?


Jonathan

s

"George" wrote in message
news:jYOzf.743426$xm3.130470@attbi_s21...



On the other hand, it is a false color image, and the bluish streak could
be anything (most likely mineralogic in nature, if Meridiani is any
indication - obviously windblown). But then, pothead Johnny thinks that
Martian blueberries are actually Martian sponges. (to hell with 20 words
or
less). Perhaps the ESA and NASA are being silent about it because they
know what it is, and aren't as stupid as Hurricane Johnny.


Hey, just today the NHC announced the wind data from Wilma.
Turns out my little abode saw the strongest winds.
I guessed 110, they said up to 115 within a couple of
miles of me.

My guesses are still better then your facts George~






George