Energia pictures of Klipper mockup posted to web

Allen Thomson wrote:

Also, now that I think of it, if Kliper (turns out to have one "p",
though it's a borrowing of Clipper. Oy.) is intended for accomodating
multi-person crews for up to two weeks of independent flight, a
separate compartment for day-to-day functions might be a good idea.



That is where you eat on a Soyuz.
That is also where you crap on a Soyuz.
Go figure.
Which led to an interesting problem on the Soyuz TM-5 flight:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/mir_close_calls.html


Details of the life-support system will be interesting to learn.


On Soyuz the main air scrubbers are also located in the orbital module;
you can check it out on this page:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz.html


BTW, a question on FPSpace returned a reply indicating that the
"electrochemical generator" in the nose is a fuel cell.

Another strange translation- my cutaway illustrations of Mir in "The
Space Station Handbook" refer to the stabilizing gyrodynes on Kvant 2 as
"Power stabilizers of liquid fuel by hydrogenation".
Shades of the dread "Ion plotters of the direction of the ship's
velocity vector" on Voskhod.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:
I was primarily referring to the antennae end of things when I was
talking about commonality with Soyuz; obviously new software will be
needed for this use on the Klipper.

One would have to look closely at the configuration. My gut feeling
is, no. The Kliper seems to have a pretty 'clean' moldline.

I wonder about the side hatch on the orbital module; does that get
removed, or is it lined up with a hatch on the exterior of the Klipper
so that EVA's can be done from it without opening the main hatch in its
side? Assuming that it really will have that rectangular entry door on
the flight version. It looks odd, and I wonder if it's just to allow
easy access to the mockup.

Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:


Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

Because said taxi might be able to rendezvous with its target with a
vital, mission- or life-critical payload and be unable to dock due to
a hardware or software failure. Also, certain vehicle failure modes
may require contingency EVA to evaluate and/or correct such as orbital
debris impact or failure to deploy antennae, solar arrays, sensors,
docking targets or reflectors, etc.

I could probably think of other contingencies if I put my mind to it,
but I'd rather drink more red wine and play my guitar some more
tonight. :-p

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
~ Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.angryherb.net

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:


Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

If it's a bad neighbourhood and the driver won't stop where you want him to?

Herb Schaltegger wrote in
:

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:


Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

Because said taxi might be able to rendezvous with its target with a
vital, mission- or life-critical payload and be unable to dock due to
a hardware or software failure. Also, certain vehicle failure modes
may require contingency EVA to evaluate and/or correct such as orbital
debris impact or failure to deploy antennae, solar arrays, sensors,
docking targets or reflectors, etc.

You might want to inform the Russians, then. Soyuz can't perform standalone
EVAs on taxi flights, either.

In article ,
Bill the Cat wrote:

Herb Schaltegger wrote in
:

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:


Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

Because said taxi might be able to rendezvous with its target with a
vital, mission- or life-critical payload and be unable to dock due to
a hardware or software failure. Also, certain vehicle failure modes
may require contingency EVA to evaluate and/or correct such as orbital
debris impact or failure to deploy antennae, solar arrays, sensors,
docking targets or reflectors, etc.

You might want to inform the Russians, then. Soyuz can't perform standalone
EVAs on taxi flights, either.

You might want to re-read Derek's question: he didn't ask anything
about Soyuz' current capabilities, did he?

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
~ Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.angryherb.net

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...
I gather you have authoritative information that the standard Soyuz
automated rendezvous and docking system would require software and
hardware modifications for use on Klipr.

I have eyes to see, and a brain to think. I need no more in this
instance.

Is it the increased mass of Klipr that drives these modifications, or the
different flight computer? If it is the latter, what is the Klipr flight computer?

The increased mass, the completely different configuration (I.E.
different mass distribution, different locations for the RCS
thrusters...)


Hmmm ... it looks like someone here has no clue how the Kurs-cm
rendezvous system actually works. Here's a clue, the 20 ton FGB used
the same Kurs-cm active box that is used on 7 ton Progress vehicles. I
wouldn't be surprised if that KGB Kurs cabinet was brought down by
Shuttle and re-used by a Soyuz or Progress on a later mission.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Klipr uses the Argon-16 flight
computer, same as Soyuz, at least for the first missions. Yeah, there
may be a patch to the operating system software to account for the
different thruster locations, but it wouldn't be a big deal. After
all, the Mir Space Station used the Argon-16 flight computer for many
years, I don't think that it would be a stretch for the 13 ton Klipr
to utilize the same system.

So much for the eyes and brain .................

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:15:43 GMT, (Derek Lyons)
wrote:

Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

....To either change the tires and/or go around the corner and talk to
the pimp about which hooker you're going to pick up and take home.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

(Explorer8939) wrote:

Hmmm ... it looks like someone here has no clue how the Kurs-cm
rendezvous system actually works.

Yep. And it's not me.

Here's a clue, the 20 ton FGB used the same Kurs-cm active box that
is used on 7 ton Progress vehicles.

Here's a clue for you; Examine these diagrams:
http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/exped...yuz_launch.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/s/sotmacut.jpg (From:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/soyuztma.htm)

Note the antenna positions. Then examine the diagrams of the Kliper,
and note not only a lack of antenna on the diagram, but a lack of
places to *put* the antennas.

So much for the eyes and brain.

Yah, when you use them, you note the difference between Soyuz and
Kliper. But you have to get your head out of your ass first.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Herb Schaltegger wrote in
:

In article ,
Bill the Cat wrote:

Herb Schaltegger wrote in
:

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:


Why would you need to perform an EVA from a taxi?

Because said taxi might be able to rendezvous with its target with
a vital, mission- or life-critical payload and be unable to dock
due to a hardware or software failure. Also, certain vehicle
failure modes may require contingency EVA to evaluate and/or
correct such as orbital debris impact or failure to deploy
antennae, solar arrays, sensors, docking targets or reflectors,
etc.

You might want to inform the Russians, then. Soyuz can't perform
standalone EVAs on taxi flights, either.

You might want to re-read Derek's question: he didn't ask anything
about Soyuz' current capabilities, did he?

No, he didn't, but Soyuz is indeed a "taxi", and once had EVA capability
before it was adapted to the taxi role, but no longer does. That shows that
the Russians don't consider such capability a high priority for a taxi.