Opportunity toaster:( has traveled 22 mars miles

Do tell do you believe manufacturing will always require tons of low
paid workers doing grunt jobs?

Why would I believe that when it's not even true now? *A lot of
manufacturing is quite high-tech.

Hell, I've got a fab plant "just up the road". *They're manufacturing and
it's hardly low-paid workers doing grunt jobs.

Most FAB plants have moved overseas, I had realtives that worked
producing chips. I have been told a small manufacturing base remains
as a military supplier. I would be easy for manufacturers to imbeed
security holes during manufacturing.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/scie...se-alzheimers/

this article states travel time of about 3 years and talks of
dimentia.

the last thing the first crew to mars needs is arrving in poor physcal
shape and even slightly muddled minds....

all caused by a long trip.....

this begets a larger question how will the people currently doing
those jobs earn a living?

We have the chance of becoming a leader in artificial intelligence and
robotics by having them lead exploration of the solar system and using
the technology back here on earth for humans.......

And we have a far better change of becoming a leader in AI by doing it here
on Earth. *Again, witness stuff like IBM's Watson.

Greg D. Moore * * * * * * * * *http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net

dont be silly the work would be done on earth, and the applications
can be used everywhere.....

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

"bob haller" wrote in message
...


Do tell do you believe manufacturing will always require tons of low
paid workers doing grunt jobs?

Why would I believe that when it's not even true now? A lot of
manufacturing is quite high-tech.

Hell, I've got a fab plant "just up the road". They're manufacturing and
it's hardly low-paid workers doing grunt jobs.

Most FAB plants have moved overseas, I had realtives that worked
producing chips. I have been told a small manufacturing base remains
as a military supplier. I would be easy for manufacturers to imbeed
security holes during manufacturing.

Most, but not all. In fact they're announced a second major fab plant for
the same area.

And this ignores the nano-tech facility down the road (large enough for a
certain POTUS to come visit).

Life is more than just your little bubble Bob.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/scie...se-alzheimers/

this article states travel time of about 3 years and talks of
dimentia.


Yes, but no where does it state that dementia might be an issue DURING the
trip.

Hell Bob, we know the effects of football on professional players and yet
folks are still showing up to play.

the last thing the first crew to mars needs is arrving in poor physcal
shape and even slightly muddled minds....

all caused by a long trip.....




--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

In article 3125c3db-ede9-44f3-8413-e8ea05bb25b2
@e10g2000vbv.googlegroups.com, says...

It would be hard to go exploring on mars while covered with water or
dirt. just how is that accomplished? PICTURES PLEASE

There will be some radiation exposure during surface operations. This
is unavoidable. If there should be a solar flare which causes a
"radiation storm", the astronauts could use the rover to get back to the
lander and would then stay in the "radiation storm shelter" until the
event is over. Also, since gravity is less on Mars, why wouldn't it be
possible to have *some* water in the rover for radiation protection?
Take a look at how heavy an M1-A1 tank is. Plenty of mass there and it
can still move far faster than even the (manned) lunar rover could.

Besides, you keep saying nuclear propulsion is necessary to reduce the
*trip time* to and from Mars. That is the time period where the
"radiation storm shelter" is most needed. Since that area would likely
double as sleeping quarters, the astronauts would be in there for 8 to
10 hours a day, depending on how long they rest and sleep each day.

Plus cutting the travel time to mars cuts costs, since it minimizes
the supplies needed for the journey...

Food is cheap ("astronaut food" is little more than glorified MRE's, and
those are mass produced and relatively inexpensive). LOX is one of the
cheapest fluids you can buy.

and given a shorter travel time
means less chance of failures......

Fred has already addressed this objection. Reliability isn't the big
issue you think it is.

the proof is in the worlds wallet which has never been opened for a
serious manned mission to mars, heck we tossed away the ability to go
back to the moon

Because every proposal so far has come from NASA, whose costs are very
high due to the way they procure everything. Costs are dropping in
areas where commercial companies are making inroads. Specifically,
launch costs are finally falling significantly. This is a game changer.

Do tell do you believe manufacturing will always require tons of low
paid workers doing grunt jobs?

The future of our world will be most jobs taken not by low paid
chinese but by robots doing most of the work........

this begets a larger question how will the people currently doing
those jobs earn a living?

This has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.

We have the chance of becoming a leader in artificial intelligence and
robotics by having them lead exploration of the solar system and using
the technology back here on earth for humans.......

Investments in these technologies should be made for earth bound
applications in order to reap the benefits. Industries like mining
already have some of this in place (teleoperation of machines to keep
the operator out of danger). They're going to be pushing technology
like this because they see the immediate benefits.

What are the immediate benefits of toasters on Mars if we don't
(eventually) intend to send people there?

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In article ,
says...

"Fevric J. Glandules" wrote in message ...

Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:

Yes, I know you mean with Earth, but you know what, people have gone
without
real-time communication to relatives for most of the history of mankind.

Indeed, I have direct first hand experience of this.

Whalers were out of touch with home for months to years on-end. Most
deployments in WWI and WWII were the same way.

Whalers would have *no* news [1]... the troops in WW1 would receive
letters from home on a regular basis.

Perhaps a more relevant example would be the Polar expeditions of about
a hundred years ago where they might go 18 months without any sort of
outside human contact *whatsoever*. [2]


You know, this makes me think Bob should read the story of the Endurance.

It might give him nightmares.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...
You know, this makes me think Bob should read the story of the Endurance.

It might give him nightmares.

Ha!

Seriously, it's one damn impressive tale! Still amazes me.



Jeff

--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

"bob haller" wrote in message
...


this begets a larger question how will the people currently doing
those jobs earn a living?

We have the chance of becoming a leader in artificial intelligence and
robotics by having them lead exploration of the solar system and using
the technology back here on earth for humans.......

And we have a far better change of becoming a leader in AI by doing it
here
on Earth. Again, witness stuff like IBM's Watson.

Greg D. Moore
http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net

dont be silly the work would be done on earth, and the applications
can be used everywhere.....


Exactly, so there's no need for the space program to drive this.

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......


Which still have drivers.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it?




--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

On Feb 5, 11:57*am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" *wrote in message

...







this begets a larger question how will the people currently doing
those jobs earn a living?

We have the chance of becoming a leader in artificial intelligence and
robotics by having them lead exploration of the solar system and using
the technology back here on earth for humans.......

And we have a far better change of becoming a leader in AI by doing it
here
on Earth. *Again, witness stuff like IBM's Watson.

Greg D. Moore
http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net

dont be silly the work would be done on earth, and the applications
can be used everywhere.....

Exactly, so there's no need for the space program to drive this.

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..



how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

In article fbaf3b07-5242-4f29-9773-1ba3029a6ff8
@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...

On Feb 5, 11:57*am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" *wrote in message

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..

B.S.

These new auto-drive vehicles still require a driver that is ready to
take over on a moment's notice. That's even the law in the US states
where they're legal. That and they're designed to drive on roads, aided
by GPS, cameras, and etc. There are no roads on Mars, and there is no
equivalent of GPS on Mars.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Feb 5, 2:59*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article fbaf3b07-5242-4f29-9773-1ba3029a6ff8
@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...



On Feb 5, 11:57*am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"bob haller" *wrote in message

with self drive vehicles appearing on roads driving in heavy
traffic.......

Which still have drivers.

their job is to sit and observe, and they have come a long way if a
vehicle can drive itself on freeways then mars should be easier..

B.S.

These new auto-drive vehicles still require a driver that is ready to
take over on a moment's notice. *That's even the law in the US states
where they're legal. *That and they're designed to drive on roads, aided
by GPS, cameras, and etc. *There are no roads on Mars, and there is no
equivalent of GPS on Mars.

how about a sef drive bulldozer to bury moon habitats? or mars? or
wherever?

What about it * Greg D. Moore

done without a operator on moon mars will advance it on earth......

If you want to "advance it on earth", then don't develop it for Mars.
Again, there are systems in place on earth that can help (like GPS) that
are not available on Mars. *Different requirements will have different
solutions, so what works on Mars may not be the best solution, or even
work, on earth.

Jeff
--

mars could get a GPS system, most likely as part of a global
communication system so that anywhere on the surface would have comm
ability to anywhere on mars and to earth too. that will be essential
for both robotic or manned mssions

America could be a world leader and regain its competivness in
manufacturing.... advances on AI and robotics are coming fast no
matter what..

when its cheaper to use robotics to assemble products, which could
have better quality too..

now wether america leads the technology, or other countries do is a
open question.