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Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?



 
 
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  #121  
Old September 22nd 18, 11:00 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

Spiritual/inspirational things are not knowable directly but we see and hear their traces in so many facets of creation including music -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u32_F7yY27g

This great century of imaging offers observers something new with time lapse, sequential imaging to present stories denied other generations thereby , for those who can see and listen, something just as enjoyable and accessible as music or any other inspirational pursuit that resonates with heart and mind.
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  #122  
Old September 22nd 18, 02:16 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 3:44:12 AM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:
?
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:02:09 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:

True agnosticism has nothing to do with atheism There are agnostic
atheists and there are agnostic theists. Agnosticism has to do with
the knowability of the question, it has nothing to do with belief.


It has to do with the belief about the knowability. The knowability
itself either exists or does not exist, independently of personal
beliefs.


I believe that anything that exists is knowable (potentially). If
"knowability" doesn't exist then the "object" doesn't exist.

  #123  
Old September 22nd 18, 02:35 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 11:44:04 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:02:09 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
True agnosticism has nothing to do with atheism There are agnostic
atheists and there are agnostic theists. Agnosticism has to do with
the knowability of the question, it has nothing to do with belief.


It has to do with the belief about the knowability. The knowability
itself either exists or does not exist, independently of personal
beliefs.


Nevertheless, agnosticism is unrelated to theism or atheism. It
measures something different. Everyone who is informed is either an
atheist or a theist, it's just a matter of how strong their belief is
either way.
  #124  
Old September 23rd 18, 10:59 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:52:39 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote:
FYI: I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic.


I don't believe you. And what you've said is still an expression of
religious faith.


Fine with me - you can have whatever religious faith you wish.
  #125  
Old September 23rd 18, 11:10 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:58:25 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:
So you say? Well, if so, point me to one single planet besides

the
Earth known to have intelligent life. I'm waiting...


Point to one single piece of evidence that refutes intelligence in
our galaxy.


Your failure to provide the evidence I asked for noted. And here you
also used the flawed argument "since you cannot disproved me,  must
be right".

Intelligent life exists on at least one place in our galaxy: here on
Earth. It may exist elsewhere too but we know nothing about that.

Your false claim was that all Christian deities live in harmony,
without making any exceptopn for Satan.


Isn't Satan supposed to be a fallen angel? Are angels not deities?

If Satan isn't a deity it must be a mortal biological creature. f
so, Satan must be dead by now since it lived thousands of years ago.




Satan is NOT a deity. YOU are the one that made that claim.

  #126  
Old September 23rd 18, 11:22 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,211
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 07:35:32 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 11:44:04 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:02:09 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
True agnosticism has nothing to do with atheism There are

agnostic
atheists and there are agnostic theists. Agnosticism has to do

with
the knowability of the question, it has nothing to do with

belief.

It has to do with the belief about the knowability. The

knowability
itself either exists or does not exist, independently of personal
beliefs.


Nevertheless, agnosticism is unrelated to theism or atheism. It
measures something different. Everyone who is informed is either an
atheist or a theist, it's just a matter of how strong their belief

is
either way.


Why is it mandatory to "choose side" here?

Imagine a bowl filled with fine grsined sand. How many grains of sand
are there in the bowl? Undoubtedly a very large number - but is that
large number an even number or an odd number? You will never know -
but what do you **believe**?

Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"? If not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why exclude the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?
  #127  
Old September 23rd 18, 11:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

Lucifer was once called the morning star or Venus as it fell from heaven each morning into the light of the Sun -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

The old narrative is that Lucifer wanted to love God more than anyone else but on his own terms hence the fallen angel but such is intellectual pretense of pretending to love creation while showing no feeling for all its facets. Those looking for the 'mind of God' are just being silly or under-developed adults for there is nothing God does not give to those open to the greater life that encompasses an individual life.

Spiritual language looks like lies to those who have lost the poetics of their own heart but it is always there nonetheless

  #128  
Old September 23rd 18, 02:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 4:11:07 AM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:58:25 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

So you say? Well, if so, point me to one single planet besides
the Earth known to have intelligent life. I'm waiting...


Point to one single piece of evidence that refutes intelligence in
our galaxy.


Your failure to provide the evidence I asked for noted. And here you
also used the flawed argument "since you cannot disproved me, must
be right".


"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

I presented probabilities that are almost certainty that civilizations
exist in the universe billions of years older than ours, and you
(dishonestly) prattle about "evidence."

Intelligent life exists on at least one place in our galaxy: here on
Earth. It may exist elsewhere too but we know nothing about that.


We DO have brains that can THINK. We deal with probabilities daily much
less certain than the probability of advanced civilizations.

Your false claim was that all Christian deities live in harmony,
without making any exceptopn for Satan.


Isn't Satan supposed to be a fallen angel? Are angels not deities?

If Satan isn't a deity it must be a mortal biological creature. If
so, Satan must be dead by now since it lived thousands of years ago.


False dichotomy. Are angels "deities"? Were they created? Who created
them? What about "spirits"?

"the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh" -- Numbers 27:16

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"
-- 1 Peter 3:19

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil,
and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the
earth, and his angels were cast out with him." -- Revelations 12:9

It is evident that Satan is a spirit, like as the "spirits of all flesh."
The difference is that he and his angels don't get the opportunity to
become flesh. So he isn't a "deity" nor is he mortal.
  #129  
Old September 23rd 18, 03:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 9,852
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 12:22:48 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

Nevertheless, agnosticism is unrelated to theism or atheism. It
measures something different. Everyone who is informed is either an
atheist or a theist, it's just a matter of how strong their belief

is
either way.


Why is it mandatory to "choose side" here?


We don't have much control over what we believe. Could you "choose a
side" when it comes to believing in Santa Claus? Our beliefs develop
from our choice of analysis and a great many unconscious processes we
have little or no access to.

Excluding those with some sort of intellectual defect or profound lack
of knowledge about our society, who will not have a belief about the
likelihood that deities are real? How many people will so perfectly
straddle the line of uncertainty that they can't be called either
theists or atheists? It's not like there isn't evidence to evaluate on
the matter.

Imagine a bowl filled with fine grsined sand. How many grains of sand
are there in the bowl? Undoubtedly a very large number - but is that
large number an even number or an odd number? You will never know -
but what do you **believe**?


The question isn't one where the word "belief" makes any sense.

Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"? If not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why exclude the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?


Because we don't choose beliefs.
  #130  
Old September 23rd 18, 03:30 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,211
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:07:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"? If not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why exclude the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?


Because we don't choose beliefs.


OK, so our beliefs are somehow predetetmined then. But why would that
exclude the third alternative "not decided" or "none of the other
alternatives" or "no opinion"?
 




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