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Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 07, 03:38 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.mystery
Ian Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,554
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

Gravity in terms of general relativity is thought of as a curvature in
space time which leads to accelerations of objects along a geodesic.
Experimentally gravity and inertia are equivalent to an extremely high
accuracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6...B6s_experiment
Eotvos is now over 100 years old and since his time experiments have
been performed. Now an accuracy of 10^-11 has been achieved.

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm

This reference outlines various forces in nature and explains how
inertia and gravity might not be the same. As you can see the accuracy
of recent experiments is well within the expected variations, if real.
If antigravity were to be real in any sense it would mean warping
space time. None of the methods proposed seem to do this. To warp a
gravitational field you need negative mass. Negative mass is needed to
do such things as stabilization of a wormhole. Has negative mass been
discovered? If it were then the secret world of such places as area 51
would have discovered something that has eluded mainstream Physics.
Mainstream Physics talks about 74% of the Universe being dark energy.
Nobody knows what this dark energy is, and no experiment performed so
far has given any real indication.

http://www.americanantigravity.com/gravitywaves.shtml
I have a real difficulty with this. If 11kw of gravitational wave
energy really were being generated it would show up on LIGO.
We then try to detect gravitational waves. If there is a connection
the mirrors must move. You should have a frequency such that the
mirrors are approximately a radian apart.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...+or+arms&meta=
http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/
I think you should look at these websites carefully. The equipment is
amazingly sensitive. If your electromagnetic assembly is indeed
creating gravitational waves at any level, they will be found. In fact
you could say, in many ways that this would be a definitive
experiment. If the Japanese mirrors do NOT move then all antigravity
concepts are in deep trouble since there can be no electromagnetic
link.

Interestingly LIGO itself has written a short piece on what they thing
they are going to detect.
http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/docs/P/P980001-00.pdf
It is a very interesting website.
Expected sources of gravitational waves that LIGO may see [1] [2]
include the in- spiral and coalescence of compact binary star systems
made up of neutron stars and/or black holes, supernovae that develop
non-axisymmmetric instabilities in the process of collapse and
rotating neutron stars that are non-axisymmetric. LIGO will also
search for stochastic gravitational waves that are remnants of the big
bang.

Note nothing about Area 51 despite the fact that it is only just over
2000km from Hanford. The other sources are much further away, the Big
Bang being 13.7 billion light years away. If there was one shred of
truth about antigravity.

The other interesting fact lies in the other observatories will give
an indication of the direction of any disturbance, so that if we get a
supernova explosion the rough direction can be deduced. LIGO has in
fact been operating for some time. So fat no definitive detection of
gravitational waves, still early days though, there has certainly been
nothing from Area 51. Whatever else is going on there there can be no
antigravity.

There appears to be a divergence between the military and mainstream
Science. Janes is a normally reliable source. It generally gets its
information from "off the record" briefings by senior military
officers.
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegas..._for_Real.html
Wherever did the information come from? Not from Hanford to be sure!

ANTIGRAVITY AS FRAUD
What do the advocates of antigravity think about LIGO. Are they
queuing up to demonstrate that they can in fact move LIGO's mirrors.
Not a bit of it! This to me puts it on the same level as
creationalism. It is nothing other than a gigantic fraud which has got
no scientific basis at all.

Hollywood has made a film about one spectacular fraudster who
pretended to be an airline pilot and got a large number of free plane
rides.
http://www.amazon.com/Catch-Me-If-You-Can/dp/0767905385
http://www.dreamworks.com/catchthem/jump2.html
I sometimes wonder whether a film could not be made about antigravity.
http://proutnewsnetwork.org/NWO/files/vril.html
This would be tremendous! The problem is that after WW2 the allies
captured all the key Nazis. Recently declassified CIA documents show
that people who had expertise were taken on regardless of their
record.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060601555.html
deals with intelligence agents.
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp....MVIuG&b=395159 Deals
with the question more generally.
The CIA obviously swallowed accounts of Vril aircraft and antigravity.
http://www.eyepod.org/images/L_Vril1-01_1_.gif
Indeed there are pictures of such aircraft. The claim of 2900km/h 5½hr
in 1944 seems grossly exaggerated to say the least. Yet they appear to
have been swallowed whole. In fact the Germans would have won the war
had they possessed aircraft with a fraction of that performance.
Nobody seems to have twigged that. They were hoping to test it in 1944
if not earlier.

ROSWELL - THE TRUTH
What about Little Green Men? As Simon Wiesenthal says, when war
criminals were being prosecuted at Nuremberg and Tokyo it would not do
to admit that war criminals were in your service. Thus the story had
to be that an alien UFO had crashed. The basic absurdity of this story
has become apparent with the advance of our own technology.

What is the truth. Well the original source of all of what I term
science fiction purporting to be science fact and conspiracy theory
stems from the Nazi Order of the Black Sun http://www.greatdreams.com/solar/black-sun.htm
This was very influential in Nazi circles. They had weird beliefs
about Science and antigravity in particular. You could propel yourself
with a resonance with Aldebaron. They produced aircraft which
purported to fly at incredible speeds. The Vril was supposed to travel
for 12,000km at 2900km/h. The truth was of course that flying saucers
were built, they worked completely aerodynamically using v^2/r to
generate a vacuum. They flew, but not very well. They were chronically
unstable and were never practical VTOL designs. In fact the helicopter
flew a lot better (and faster!).

However the CIA swallowed the Black Sun whole, proceeded to concoct a
story of aliens and found they had been sold a pup. Having been sold a
pup Area 51 had to concoct other stories. Ah well we are working with
alien technology, this is incredibly advanced - we are only just
managing to sort it out.

The traditional Roswell account is very much is tune with 1950s SF.
Now we are talking about AI and miniaturization. The presence of ET,
at any rate in the Roswell form, is a total impossibility. If Area 51
has got alien technology it has made remarkably little use of it.
Alien technology would in fact have involved advanced computing and
AI.

The simple fact of the matter is that the secret world never saw fit
to consult any reputable scientists. No reputable scientist ever saw
the Nazi flying saucers. That is why the bought a pup. I am cross
posting to rec.arts.mystery it is without question the fraud of the
century, or rather last century. Hitler swallowed everything whole,
the aircraft were (probably, the V1s and V2s were) constructed with
slave labour. The secret world did not consult reputable scientists,
if they had the Black Sun would have gone straight to Nuremberg.

In subsequent years antigravity has been a subject that will not go
away. No aircraft has flown with antigravity, yet the topic refuses to
die. I would have expected an aircraft travelling at 2900 km/h and a
range of 12,000km by 1950 at the latest, and that the absence of such
an aircraft would lead to questions being asked, but apparently not.
Money has kept on being spent between the end of WW2 and the present
day. In fact antigravity has come to be a blanket term under which all
novel aviation concepts are bracketed. Obviously no LIGO as they are
known from the start not to be antigravity.
http://www.americanantigravity.com/d...er-Article.pdf

This is from the American ANTIGRAVITY website. There is however no
mention in this article of anything other than normal aerodynamic
forces.

There seems to be a widespread perception that Area 51 knows things
that mainstream science does not. I think it is in its interest to
give that impression. It all serves to boost funds. That is of course
part of the gigantic fraud and I believe that it is a fraud that is
extremely damaging to the reputation of mainstream science. I
sometimes wonder whether all these people with doubts about the theory
of Relativity are influenced by Area 51 and its disinformation. It has
even crossed my mind that they are professional disinformers
themselves.

Are we alone in the Universe? Is there, or has there been at any time
an extraterrestrial presence? I believe that these are important
questions. I feel that such episodes as Roswell hinder us in our
search for rational answers.



- Ian Parker
LIGO cannot detect the Black Sun. It can however detect two orbiting
each other.

  #2  
Old July 21st 07, 04:05 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.mystery
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

I'd much rather put our hard earned loot into the various frauds of
antigravity than into the fully perpetrated frauds of our cold-war(s),
and/or into the fraud and subsequent fiasco of those Muslim WMD.
- Brad Guth


  #3  
Old July 21st 07, 05:09 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.mystery
Ian Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,554
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

On 21 Jul, 16:05, BradGuth wrote:
I'd much rather put our hard earned loot into the various frauds of
antigravity than into the fully perpetrated frauds of our cold-war(s),
and/or into the fraud and subsequent fiasco of those Muslim WMD.
- Brad Guth


The two things are not so unrelated. Iraq is the result of exacly the
same attitude that swallowed the Black Sun. I am a physicist and I
have at least a semi authorative view about the correct position on
antigravity.

Certainly neither Bush nor the Pentagon consulted any real experts on
the Middle East. My equivalant of a mainstream scientist speaks
Arabic, has lived for some time in the Middle East and is aquainted
with the authentic sources of information.


- Ian Parker

  #4  
Old July 21st 07, 05:38 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.mystery
Igor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

On Jul 21, 10:38 am, Ian Parker wrote:
Gravity in terms of general relativity is thought of as a curvature in
space time which leads to accelerations of objects along a geodesic.
Experimentally gravity and inertia are equivalent to an extremely high
accuracy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6...B6s_experiment
Eotvos is now over 100 years old and since his time experiments have
been performed. Now an accuracy of 10^-11 has been achieved.

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm

This reference outlines various forces in nature and explains how
inertia and gravity might not be the same. As you can see the accuracy
of recent experiments is well within the expected variations, if real.
If antigravity were to be real in any sense it would mean warping
space time. None of the methods proposed seem to do this. To warp a
gravitational field you need negative mass. Negative mass is needed to
do such things as stabilization of a wormhole. Has negative mass been
discovered? If it were then the secret world of such places as area 51
would have discovered something that has eluded mainstream Physics.
Mainstream Physics talks about 74% of the Universe being dark energy.
Nobody knows what this dark energy is, and no experiment performed so
far has given any real indication.

http://www.americanantigravity.com/gravitywaves.shtml
I have a real difficulty with this. If 11kw of gravitational wave
energy really were being generated it would show up on LIGO.
We then try to detect gravitational waves. If there is a connection
the mirrors must move. You should have a frequency such that the
mirrors are approximately a radian apart.http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...o.caltech.edu/
I think you should look at these websites carefully. The equipment is
amazingly sensitive. If your electromagnetic assembly is indeed
creating gravitational waves at any level, they will be found. In fact
you could say, in many ways that this would be a definitive
experiment. If the Japanese mirrors do NOT move then all antigravity
concepts are in deep trouble since there can be no electromagnetic
link.

Interestingly LIGO itself has written a short piece on what they thing
they are going to detect.http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/docs/P/P980001-00.pdf
It is a very interesting website.
Expected sources of gravitational waves that LIGO may see [1] [2]
include the in- spiral and coalescence of compact binary star systems
made up of neutron stars and/or black holes, supernovae that develop
non-axisymmmetric instabilities in the process of collapse and
rotating neutron stars that are non-axisymmetric. LIGO will also
search for stochastic gravitational waves that are remnants of the big
bang.

Note nothing about Area 51 despite the fact that it is only just over
2000km from Hanford. The other sources are much further away, the Big
Bang being 13.7 billion light years away. If there was one shred of
truth about antigravity.

The other interesting fact lies in the other observatories will give
an indication of the direction of any disturbance, so that if we get a
supernova explosion the rough direction can be deduced. LIGO has in
fact been operating for some time. So fat no definitive detection of
gravitational waves, still early days though, there has certainly been
nothing from Area 51. Whatever else is going on there there can be no
antigravity.

There appears to be a divergence between the military and mainstream
Science. Janes is a normally reliable source. It generally gets its
information from "off the record" briefings by senior military
officers.http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegas..._Gravity_for_R...
Wherever did the information come from? Not from Hanford to be sure!

ANTIGRAVITY AS FRAUD
What do the advocates of antigravity think about LIGO. Are they
queuing up to demonstrate that they can in fact move LIGO's mirrors.
Not a bit of it! This to me puts it on the same level as
creationalism. It is nothing other than a gigantic fraud which has got
no scientific basis at all.

Hollywood has made a film about one spectacular fraudster who
pretended to be an airline pilot and got a large number of free plane
rides.http://www.amazon.com/Catch-Me-If-Yo...hem/jump2.html
I sometimes wonder whether a film could not be made about antigravity.http://proutnewsnetwork.org/NWO/files/vril.html
This would be tremendous! The problem is that after WW2 the allies
captured all the key Nazis. Recently declassified CIA documents show
that people who had expertise were taken on regardless of their
record.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...06/06/06/AR200...
deals with intelligence agents.http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp....&b=395159Deals
with the question more generally.
The CIA obviously swallowed accounts of Vril aircraft and antigravity.http://www.eyepod.org/images/L_Vril1-01_1_.gif
Indeed there are pictures of such aircraft. The claim of 2900km/h 5½hr
in 1944 seems grossly exaggerated to say the least. Yet they appear to
have been swallowed whole. In fact the Germans would have won the war
had they possessed aircraft with a fraction of that performance.
Nobody seems to have twigged that. They were hoping to test it in 1944
if not earlier.

ROSWELL - THE TRUTH
What about Little Green Men? As Simon Wiesenthal says, when war
criminals were being prosecuted at Nuremberg and Tokyo it would not do
to admit that war criminals were in your service. Thus the story had
to be that an alien UFO had crashed. The basic absurdity of this story
has become apparent with the advance of our own technology.

What is the truth. Well the original source of all of what I term
science fiction purporting to be science fact and conspiracy theory
stems from the Nazi Order of the Black Sunhttp://www.greatdreams.com/solar/black-sun.htm
This was very influential in Nazi circles. They had weird beliefs
about Science and antigravity in particular. You could propel yourself
with a resonance with Aldebaron. They produced aircraft which
purported to fly at incredible speeds. The Vril was supposed to travel
for 12,000km at 2900km/h. The truth was of course that flying saucers
were built, they worked completely aerodynamically using v^2/r to
generate a vacuum. They flew, but not very well. They were chronically
unstable and were never practical VTOL designs. In fact the helicopter
flew a lot better (and faster!).

However the CIA swallowed the Black Sun whole, proceeded to concoct a
story of aliens and found they had been sold a pup. Having been sold a
pup Area 51 had to concoct other stories. Ah well we are working with
alien technology, this is incredibly advanced - we are only just
managing to sort it out.

The traditional Roswell account is very much is tune with 1950s SF.
Now we are talking about AI and miniaturization. The presence of ET,
at any rate in the Roswell form, is a total impossibility. If Area 51
has got alien technology it has made remarkably little use of it.
Alien technology would in fact have involved advanced computing and
AI.

The simple fact of the matter is that the secret world never saw fit
to consult any reputable scientists. No reputable scientist ever saw
the Nazi flying saucers. That is why the bought a pup. I am cross
posting to rec.arts.mystery it is without question the fraud of the
century, or rather last century. Hitler swallowed everything whole,
the aircraft were (probably, the V1s and V2s were) constructed with
slave labour. The secret world did not consult reputable scientists,
if they had the Black Sun would have gone straight to Nuremberg.

In subsequent years antigravity has been a subject that will not go
away. No aircraft has flown with antigravity, yet the topic refuses to
die. I would have expected an aircraft travelling at 2900 km/h and a
range of 12,000km by 1950 at the latest, and that the absence of such
an aircraft would lead to questions being asked, but apparently not.
Money has kept on being spent between the end of WW2 and the present
day. In fact antigravity has come to be a blanket term under which all
novel aviation concepts are bracketed. Obviously no LIGO as they are
known from the start not to be antigravity.http://www.americanantigravity..com/...er-Article.pdf

This is from the American ANTIGRAVITY website. There is however no
mention in this article of anything other than normal aerodynamic
forces.

There seems to be a widespread perception that Area 51 knows things
that mainstream science does not. I think it is in its interest to
give that impression. It all serves to boost funds. That is of course
part of the gigantic fraud and I believe that it is a fraud that is
extremely damaging to the reputation of mainstream science. I
sometimes wonder whether all these people with doubts about the theory
of Relativity are influenced by Area 51 and its disinformation. It has
even crossed my mind that they are professional disinformers
themselves.

Are we alone in the Universe? Is there, or has there been at any time
an extraterrestrial presence? I believe that these are important
questions. I feel that such episodes as Roswell hinder us in our
search for rational answers.

- Ian Parker
LIGO cannot detect the Black Sun. It can however detect two orbiting
each other.


Now if we could just find a way to make time run backwards, then
things would fall up.


  #5  
Old July 21st 07, 06:07 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy
Uncle Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 697
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

Ian Parker wrote:

Gravity in terms of general relativity is thought of as a curvature in
space time which leads to accelerations of objects along a geodesic.


Not necessarily. Metric gravitation spacetime curvature predictions
are wholly contained within non-metric gravitation spacetime torsion
predictions - affine (Eisntein-Cartan), teleparallel (Weitzenböck
spacetime), and noncommutative (Connes) gravitations. The only
interesting part is where the two sets disjointly *disagree*: angular
momentum - macroscopic physical spin; particle spin and orbital
angular momentum (magnets); relativistic spin-orbit coupling (binary
pulsr PSR J0737-3039A/B); and opposite parity mass distributions.
Only the last is a macroscopically measurable effect even in
principle.

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.pdf
minutia
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
2-day experiment to extreme sensitivity.

Experimentally gravity and inertia are equivalent to an extremely high
accuracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6...B6s_experiment


Do better,

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b1
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b5
Parity is the disjoint non-overlap between metric and non-metric
gravititation

Eotvos is now over 100 years old and since his time experiments have
been performed. Now an accuracy of 10^-11 has been achieved.


Adelberger at U/Wash currently achieves 10^(-13) difference/average,
Newman at UC/Irvine might do 10^(-15) below 4 kelvin. Neither has
performed a parity Eotvos experiment opposing single crystal solid
spheres of space group P3(1)21 vs. P3(2)21 cultured alpha-quartz.
Does a right shoe vacuum free fall identically to a left shoe? Nobody
has ever looked.

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm

This reference outlines various forces in nature and explains how
inertia and gravity might not be the same.


That URL is an overly large hodgepodge plus huge pile of citations for
the uninitiated. The lean clients are

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.pdf
minutia
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
2-day experiment to extreme sensitivity.

A *measurable* spacetime parity violation is empirically confined to
one specific case - opposite parity mass distributions. Orthodox
theory supporting it appeared by the 1920s. The only meaningful
further discussion is to look. Both a null and a non-mull outcome are
fully supported by orthodox classical theory consistent with all prior
observation in all venues at all scales.

No theory however elegant, "necessary," or large can survive empirical
falsification of its predictions. String theory with 10^1000 allowed
vacua (the landscape) makes no predictions at all. It demands BRST
invariance (the effects of a massive body and an accelerating geometry
are indistinguishable) and so is also vulnerable to parity Eotvos and
parity calorimetry falsification experiments.

As you can see the accuracy
of recent experiments is well within the expected variations, if real.


So? 10^(-13) difference/average Eotvos experiment net signal, state
of the art, gives an 8% calorimetry signal in 0.1% precision
equipment. Official Truth can be busted bya fcotr of 80.

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b4
literature citation numbers
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#c1
thermodynamics and kinematics
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b2
bottom lines

All of that inevitably arises from classical physics with heavy
literature citation and no possibility of dissent. None of that is
arguable. The only unknown is whether the vacuum is empirically
even-parity or odd-parity in the mass sector. Vacuum isotropy vs.
anisotropic chiral background cannot be resolved by debate. That must
be examined. The reproducible answer is the answer. It matters not
who does not like the results.

If antigravity were to be real in any sense it would mean warping
space time.


Nonsense. Spacetime curvature in isotropic space gives *parallel*
local vacuum free fall minimum action geodesics. Spacetime torsion in
a chiral vacuum backgriund gives *divergent* local vacuum free fall
minimum action teleparallels for chemically identical, oppposite
parity mass distributions. Nothing is violated either way. Ordinary
random matter does not care. Given empirical chiral anisotropic
space, unless somebody is unexpectedly clever with subsequent
non-metric gravitation theory, the parity divergence will be small -
on the order of 10^(-12) relative.

Present-day vacuum chiral divergence would be just large enough to
originate biological homochirality (L-chiral protein amino acids and
D-chiral natural sugars) the left-handed Weak interaction; and source
the inflation era post-Big Bang as a chiral pseudoscalar field
background choosing matter over antimatter. There it is folks - all
the nasty unexplainable chirality-selective stuff neatly tied up in a
gift package.

There cannot be a parity Nordtvedt effect. The mass fraction of
Earth's chiral mass distributions is negligible compared to planetary
mass (and biology is mostly achiral water). Even then, meat cancels
wood.

None of the methods proposed seem to do this. To warp a
gravitational field you need negative mass.

[snip straw men]

If you assume the Equivalence Principle is true, then violations of
the EP are impossible. I propose to observe whether the EP has a
parity violation based upon two orthogonal classes of theoretically
sound experiments. Observation cannot be argued against. What is
reproducibly empirically observed is true.

http://www.americanantigravity.com/gravitywaves.shtml

[snip]

That's crap. Contradiction of prior observation is crap.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...+or+arms&meta=
http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/
I think you should look at these websites carefully.


I've corresponded with Kip Thorne. So? Spacetime curvature and
spacetime torsion are measurably indistinguishable except in the
opposite parity mass distribution case. If you have a few meter-wide
cultured single crystal alpha-quartz mirrors in both space groups for
LIGO, don't be shy about telling us. Alas, since the far ends of LIGO
in Washington state and Louisiana do not satisfy locality, it wouldn't
be a definitive experiment.

The equipment is
amazingly sensitive. If your electromagnetic assembly is indeed
creating gravitational waves at any level,

[snip]

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
Gravitational waves are quadrupolar excitations requiring immense (as
in "astronomical") mass displacements. Gravitation merely requires a
single atom or less (or nothing at all - the Weyl tensor). Gravity
waves are wet sloshes exending from surface to bottom.

Are we alone in the Universe?

[snip]

We are isolated in the universe. If you do not like that, change it
yourself.

- Ian Parker


--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
  #6  
Old July 21st 07, 06:22 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.mystery
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

On Jul 21, 9:09 am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 21 Jul, 16:05, BradGuth wrote:

I'd much rather put our hard earned loot into the various frauds of
antigravity than into the fully perpetrated frauds of our cold-war(s),
and/or into the fraud and subsequent fiasco of those Muslim WMD.
- Brad Guth


The two things are not so unrelated. Iraq is the result of exacly the
same attitude that swallowed the Black Sun. I am a physicist and I
have at least a semi authorative view about the correct position on
antigravity.

Certainly neither Bush nor the Pentagon consulted any real experts on
the Middle East. My equivalant of a mainstream scientist speaks
Arabic, has lived for some time in the Middle East and is aquainted
with the authentic sources of information.

- Ian Parker


In other honest words, we're getting summarily screwed over by our own
kind, and then some. No wonder our physics is so highly conditional,
and of whatever evidence via the best available science made taboo or
simply banished for lack of having a Yiddish stamp of approval.
- Brad Guth

  #7  
Old July 21st 07, 08:00 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy
mathematician
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

On Jul 21, 8:07 pm, Uncle Al wrote:

--CUT PART AWAY---

If you assume the Equivalence Principle is true, then violations of
the EP are impossible. I propose to observe whether the EP has a
parity violation based upon two orthogonal classes of theoretically
sound experiments. Observation cannot be argued against. What is
reproducibly empirically observed is true.


I think this "bull**** cranker" Alan Schwartz (=Uncle Al) does not
understand properly the LOCAL principle of Equivalence of GR ?

Hannu

--CUT PART AWAY---

Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2



  #8  
Old July 21st 07, 11:12 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

On Jul 21, 9:07 am, Uncle Al wrote:
[...]

Do you have the crystals grown yet?

  #9  
Old July 22nd 07, 05:42 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy
Bill Hobba
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Posts: 31
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.


"mathematician" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 21, 8:07 pm, Uncle Al wrote:

--CUT PART AWAY---

If you assume the Equivalence Principle is true, then violations of
the EP are impossible. I propose to observe whether the EP has a
parity violation based upon two orthogonal classes of theoretically
sound experiments. Observation cannot be argued against. What is
reproducibly empirically observed is true.


I think this "bull**** cranker" Alan Schwartz (=Uncle Al) does not
understand properly the LOCAL principle of Equivalence of GR ?


Uncle Al has demonstrated a VERY good understanding of GR.

Bill


Hannu

--CUT PART AWAY---

Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most
mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2





  #10  
Old July 22nd 07, 06:31 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.skeptic,sci.space.policy
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default Antigravity - The fraud of the 20th century.

On Jul 21, 11:00 am, mathematician wrote:
On Jul 21, 8:07 pm, Uncle Al wrote:

--CUT PART AWAY---

If you assume the Equivalence Principle is true, then violations of
the EP are impossible. I propose to observe whether the EP has a
parity violation based upon two orthogonal classes of theoretically
sound experiments. Observation cannot be argued against. What is
reproducibly empirically observed is true.


I think this "bull**** cranker" Alan Schwartz (=Uncle Al) does not
understand properly the LOCAL principle of Equivalence of GR ?


Really? Why is that?

I learned a fair bit about the EP from him, and through the references
he has posted. His thoughts on the matter were, at the very least,
backed up by what I saw while learning GR.

[...]

 




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