thermodynamics of life

Thermodynamically, life is defined to be a set of systems which are
held far from equilibium with their surroundings, and eventhough they
decrease the local entropy, by keeping their selves far from
equilibruim with the surroundings they actually further increase the
entropy of the universe. Now, I am wondering, is nature engineered in
a way as to MAXIMIZE this increase in entropy of the universe?

In message , Amirsaman
writes
Thermodynamically, life is defined to be a set of systems which are
held far from equilibium with their surroundings, and eventhough they
decrease the local entropy, by keeping their selves far from
equilibruim with the surroundings they actually further increase the
entropy of the universe. Now, I am wondering, is nature engineered in
a way as to MAXIMIZE this increase in entropy of the universe?

Life is a local, temporary by-product of energy conversion entirely
within the framework of the universe and as such, has no net effect on
universal entropy. If the universe is everything, then in order to
change entropy you need energy input, or output, or both. If the system
is 'everything' then there is nothing to provide input, and nowhere for
output to go. Entropy is zero in a truly closed system.
Entropy 'may' be slightly increased within our own biosphere by the
process of evolution, and is certainly localised and temporary, but
that's conjecture on my part.

Corrections gratefully received here, this is not really my subject, but
I have done a bit of work in this area.

Denis
--
DT
Replace nospam with the antithesis of hills

In message , DT
writes
In message , Amirsaman
writes
Thermodynamically, life is defined to be a set of systems which are
held far from equilibium with their surroundings, and eventhough they
decrease the local entropy, by keeping their selves far from
equilibruim with the surroundings they actually further increase the
entropy of the universe. Now, I am wondering, is nature engineered in
a way as to MAXIMIZE this increase in entropy of the universe?

Engineered probably isn't quite the right way to describe it.

Life is a local, temporary by-product of energy conversion entirely
within the framework of the universe and as such, has no net effect on
universal entropy. If the universe is everything, then in order to
change entropy you need energy input, or output, or both. If the system
is 'everything' then there is nothing to provide input, and nowhere for
output to go. Entropy is zero in a truly closed system.

Not true. Bulk entropy can only stay the same or increase inside a
closed system. Take for example a jam jar containing two clean separate
layers of red and yellow marbles. Shake it up and you will have a random
mixture of yellow and red marbles. Sorting them back into clean layers
again will require expenditure of energy - to restore order to the
contents of that jam jar you do work and increase the total entropy of
the universe.

Life maintains its internal order by using chemical energy and dumping
waste products and heat into the environment.

You can organise a local decrease in entropy by increasing the entropy
somewhere else, but unless you can dump the increase outside the
universe the total entropy of the system will always increase.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
.........

You can organise a local decrease in entropy by increasing the entropy
somewhere else, but unless you can dump the increase outside the
universe the total entropy of the system will always increase.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

Thanks for the correction, I'm too used to thinking in terms of heat
flow! As usual with answers though, it's prompted another question, so
I'm diving back into some physics books.

Denis
--
DT
Replace nospam with the antithesis of hills